Another Jetstar Whistleblower

['holic]

Genex,

Fair dinkum, what happened, did a mainline pilot get your Mrs pregnant?

Reading your posts, Qantas pilots have been responsible for the GFC, both world wars and small pox.

Every single sentence in your previous post is wrong which, I believe, is a new record for Pprune I could argue each facet of your post with you, but what would be the point? Whenever someone provides a reasonable argument to your crap, you just skulk off for a few weeks and then return to post the same crap again.

You can see a psychologist about it, you know. Really .... you can even claim it on medicare.

[LeadSled]

------ when they left AFAP due to being continually done over by the higher number of domestic pilots and then AIPA's refusal to join the AFAP in giving themselves both barrels to the feet. I guess you could argue that it was the AFAPs self interest that forced AIPA to look after their own self interest.... and yet now you criticise AIPA for trying to do something that the AFAP didn't care about in the early '80s- taking care of ALL the pilots they cover, not just those with the numbers.

Keg,
That's a pretty accurate short summary.

If AIPA (ne.the "Overseas Branch" of the AFAP) in those days had gone along with the Melbourne AFAP push, and their neanderthal approach to change, arguably QF would have disappeared from the scene.

Just to remind a few of you, AFAP directives required 3 man crews on any aircraft more than 100 pax seats, (remember the Ansett B767, TAA had already fought and lost a strike for three pilot B737) rejected "glass" cockpits, reduced power takeoffs, intersection departures etc etc etc.

Not a "problem" ( except for the traveling public's ticket prices ) in the then cost plus world of Australia under the two airline agreement, but a financial noose around the neck in the competitive international market.

In 1989 our then AIPA President addressed a meeting of domestic pilots in Melbourne, told them that politically they would not beat one R.J.L.Hawke ( and an Australian board far more hawkish than one E.H.P.Abeles at Ansett) ---- his views were howled down.

As we soon saw, the then AIPA President was vindicated.

Tootle pip!!

[balance]

Genex really isn't worth replying to. He is a bitter troll, and by replying, you guys are feeding him. I suggest, don't.

Sam Dune Sam. Well said.

Mstr Caution, be careful with those thoughts, I've known a few Jetcancer / Implausible pilots who were knocked back by Qantas, some of them more than once. One or two I wouldn't let my missus and kids fly with, and they are still flying bigger and better than before. Its a worry, and probably only a matter of time before something happens.

[Slippery_Pete]

Most argued they had no choice

Exactly, Blue Foot. They rolled over and selfishly looked after themselves by paying for a Virgin or Jetstar endorsement. It's funny how the majority of pilots talk the talk, but when it comes crunch time, they will do whatever it takes for their own short term gain.

oicur12.again:

What is the "beginning of the end" you refer to. What do you think the endgame will look like.

The endgame is where pilots will no longer be high income earners. We will work massive hours with minimum rest, be away from family for long periods of time, shoulder massive responsibility and have to fight for our jobs every 3 months in the sim... and get paid average wages for the privelege, while paying off a 35k endorsement. That's what the endgame will look like - when the trade off between how much you give/how much you get is so pathetic you're better off cleaner the sh*tters in the airport than flying the aircraft.

And what is the experience que you refer to. Who determines how much waiting is acceptable.

The experience queue is the traditional employment route - while it obviously depends on sim & interview performance, generally the higher experienced were better pilots, and got the jobs first.

3 Holer...

My username and all my posts were subsequently deleted at my request by a moderator I PM'd - I feared my identity was compromised and wanted to protect my identity from my employer.

Putting the safety issues aside as a whole separate issue...

I refuse to listen to a J* pilot who paid for their endorsement complain about cadets. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

[Lookleft]

You blokes are priceless. The title of this thread suggests that it is the Jetstar pilots who are trying to get the message out there about the current state of the industry and all you can do is suggest that they are destroying the industry. Other than AIPA I haven't seen too many Qantas pilots put in submissions and go before the Committee to express their deeply held concerns about aviation safety and the role of the Jetstar pilot in driving it down.

[VSubC]

"Other than AIPA I haven't seen too many Qantas pilots put in submissions and go before the Committee to express their deeply held concerns about aviation safety ..."

Some would call that UNITY ...............

[balance]

Other than AIPA I haven't seen too many Qantas pilots put in submissions and go before the Committee to express their deeply held concerns about aviation safety and the role of the Jetstar pilot in driving it down.

And by your warped logic, that means that Jetstar pilots AREN'T driving it down by their actions (or lack thereof)? Spare me.

all you can do is suggest that they are destroying the industry.

Yup.

[Lookleft]

Obviously with your superior logic by saying nothing and doing nothing you are enhancing the aviation industry? By speaking out Jetstar pilots are raising the issue of safety in the industry. Don't confuse industrial issues with operational issues. I'm also finding it difficult to follow your logic that says if you didn't get into qantas then you are a second rate pilot.

[oicur12.again]

“We will work massive hours with minimum rest”.

Really. Is CASA planning on introducing new flight time limitations for pilots? I was not aware.

“be away from family for long periods of time”.

Wow, longer than the 12 days away my QF chums already do? And why do you draw a parallel between self-funded training and resulting trip length?

“shoulder massive responsibility”

As apposed to now where . . . . someone else takes responsibility?

“have to fight for our jobs every 3 months in the sim”

Again, why would this change?

“while paying off a 35k endorsement.”

OK, so lets assume this is completed within several years. Hardly a big cost when compared to the following 35 years of airline career.

“traditional”. Hardly a reason to maintain the status quo just because that’s how you did it?

But good scare mongering though.

[breakfastburrito]

You cherry picked his quote, my bold.

Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete

We will work massive hours with minimum rest, be away from family for long periods of time, shoulder massive responsibility and have to fight for our jobs every 3 months in the sim... and get paid average wages for the privelege, while paying off a 35k endorsement

If, as it has been reported is correct, j* cadets are on NZD42K, but effectively based in Oz then his assertion is already happening. NZD42K ~= AUD32K which is actually about half the Oz average wage, and only 5K above minimum wage for a 35 hour week.

[Kangaroo Court]

...and still no shortage of idiots who have been warned, but continue to pay into this scam, because, "...that's the way it's done now".

[Slippery_Pete]

oicur12.again,

Thanks to breakfast burrito I won't have to explain to you the point of my post you completely missed - not that it was rocket science.

While I may be wrong, you and lookleft both sound like J* pilots.
If in fact you are, enjoy the cadets mate as they are here to stay - and you and pilots like you started it by buying up jobs - there is no one else to blame than yourselves.

The are only two main differences between you and J* cadets:
1. they managed to save up a hell of a lot more money than you (180k compared to 35k)
2. you should have known better (their naivety can be understood).

If you are infact not a J* pilot, I hope you are saving up your 35k... You'll fit right in.

[Slippery_Pete]

Recruitment of DE has pretty much completely stopped from what I've heard. Several people I know who are on the hold file have been contacted to say no Australian based jobs can be expected from here on.

It's either an overseas base or cadets only

[Capt Kremin]

Australian based jobs can be expected, but only if you sign the NZ based individual contract and take LWOP to be able to fly in Australia at substandard NZ conditions.

[Red777]

Yet again another ****** who is trying to stir **** about a mate of mine.

Capt Toss Dudley, grow a pair of balls and stop pretending your Mr Dudley...clearly you have a massive chip on your shoulder that he is in a far better position then you. Shame to see you have to resort to rubishing a great bloke and fine aviator..

do us all a fav and F*&K off and stop dribbling crap you know nothing about!