Flights grounded in Virgin Blue 'chaos'
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"MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: The Senior Editor of Air Transport World, Geoffrey Thomas, says only a few airlines have better back up systems than Virgin."
was a H/W failure. that does seem unusually careless for a h/w failure to take a day to fix. no point having triple redundant DBs if there is a single point of failure elsewhere in the chain, esp the h/w.
was a H/W failure. that does seem unusually careless for a h/w failure to take a day to fix. no point having triple redundant DBs if there is a single point of failure elsewhere in the chain, esp the h/w.
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Facts - smoke equals fire.
Getting Facts Right...
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.
Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.
Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.
Here are some - VB staff are tired of:
- 2-5 emails just about everyday of the year about IT outages.
- Having to install software/printers at every computer they use across the entire network each time they log in.
- Citrix rubbish freezing every single time you log on and requiring 15 attempts before it works.
- Having to employ various remedies/fixes to get computers to work so you can then actually do your job.
- Having to pull printers apart every single day.
- Every third delay being due to a New Skies passenger incorrect seat allocation and having to do manual load sheet changes.
- Passwords and logins for every second page they view.
- Ringing up IT to ask for a fix and getting told "can't be done unless you lodge a ticket". Are you even remotely familiar with how much material crews have to cover in a 30 minute sign on? Great idea lets lodge a ticket. Jesus.
- Emails from IT about staff blocking up the system (YOU are blocking the system with YOUR emails about outages not US, YOU)
and last but not least ...
-MOPPING UP THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MESS WHEN 116 FLIGHTS GET CANCELLED!
Wake up buddy there's a few people on here that do have an idea of what dealing with IT systems at VB is like. You are here because of us not the other way around. More importantly WE are here because of the 60000 people sitting on the floor at various airports that pay our wages. This mess has caused untold damage to the trust in the company at the most critical of times. Some of us take pride in our work, take pride in an on time departure and a happy customer. Some of us feel genuine empathy for the family of 5 sitting on the floor in Sydney Airport. This isn't just another job to buy the latest gadget from PC magazine.
And before we blame the poor equipment provided by the company don't forget that everybody gets the same - pit crew to pilots. Ask the Ejet Captain/FO that deals with the multiple failures and gets the airplane safely on the ground every single time.
Get "intimately familiar" with that. Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella.
Full service Airline? Full service equipment, systems, culture and new management.
Keep sweeping John.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 28th Sep 2010 at 00:14.
Virgin can no more blame "a third party" for it's woes anymore than BP can. If you pay peanuts etc.
Just ask any VB passenger, who has paid $5 for a ticket, if they expect a safe, efficient, on-time flight .... same thing.
I've been caught in business before ... mistakingly thinking that just because a Client screwed my price down, he would accept an inferior product ... wrong ... both ethically and legally!
Bottums Up
In all seriousness, as a group we get narked when people jump to conclusions about various aircraft related incidents, particularly when the critics aren't in possession of all the facts, nor do they wait for the result of an investigation.
There'll surely be an investigation into this, and it could just be, that despite every one's best endeavours something unthought of occurred. Or, it could just be a stuff up. But surely we should wait for the investigation results before we start crucifying this company, or that, or hurling grenades at people.
There'll surely be an investigation into this, and it could just be, that despite every one's best endeavours something unthought of occurred. Or, it could just be a stuff up. But surely we should wait for the investigation results before we start crucifying this company, or that, or hurling grenades at people.
I'd tend to think that the reason 'manual check-in' failed is because the procedure was designed way back in the early days - when connecting flights were 'rare' or virtually 'non-existent'. As the company has grown, many of its back up plans have become obsolete.
This is a clear indicator that the company has not grown in proportion to its market share.
Manual check-in works well when it's point to point - but markedly less so when connecting flights are involved.
This seems to be a latent failure on the part of Virgin Blue - regardless of who provides its soft or hard ware.
Every pilot, engineer, and flight attendant out there should take this as a solid reminder - if anything goes wrong, the company will do its best to pass the blame.
This is a clear indicator that the company has not grown in proportion to its market share.
Manual check-in works well when it's point to point - but markedly less so when connecting flights are involved.
This seems to be a latent failure on the part of Virgin Blue - regardless of who provides its soft or hard ware.
Every pilot, engineer, and flight attendant out there should take this as a solid reminder - if anything goes wrong, the company will do its best to pass the blame.
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Originally Posted by peuce
I do not agree ... a contract is a contract, no matter how much you screw the price down.
Just ask any VB passenger, who has paid $5 for a ticket, if they expect a safe, efficient, on-time flight .... same thing.
I've been caught in business before ... mistakingly thinking that just because a Client screwed my price down, he would accept an inferior product ... wrong ... both ethically and legally!
Just ask any VB passenger, who has paid $5 for a ticket, if they expect a safe, efficient, on-time flight .... same thing.
I've been caught in business before ... mistakingly thinking that just because a Client screwed my price down, he would accept an inferior product ... wrong ... both ethically and legally!
lol, you can't actually expect to get to your destination if you only pay $5 for your ticket.
For that price the best you can hope for is a free explosives swab at the x-ray machine
.
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Whats with this 'guests" stuff, when did PAX become guests? And why not wet lease from either JQ or QF? Don't they do that any more in times like this?
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Mr Hat, Bravo, Bravo, well said.
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.
There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...
I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!
+G
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.
There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...
I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!
+G
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Mr Hat, Bravo, Bravo, well said.
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.
There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...
I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!
+G
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.
There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...
I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!
+G
Outsourcing for the win eh ...
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Yeah I disagree. The term "guest" works when you stay at an iconic hotel like perhaps " Raffles " or the " Waldorf " or entertaining a guest in your own home. Not a low cost airline. When you have commentators bagging the term on the radio its time for a rethink.Virgin really needs to drop most of the baggage (and terms like those) from the Godfrey era and grow up.