Flights grounded in Virgin Blue 'chaos'
"guests"
Had friends down for the grand final who were "guests" of VB and affected by the IT problems.It was interesting hearing their perspective compared to the usual media spin.
They are long time VB travellers and use them for buisness as well as lesuire travel after QF basically gave them no option than fly J* from their home town, but thats another story.
What did they think? Very well handled at the start but after 3 hours of waiting things got out of control, with most people way out of their depth. A huge lack of information, and as they said its nice to have attractive young things serving you, but when they have no training or support in this type of situation it looks very amatuer. Lots of staff on the ground apologising, but none were really of any help. They were actually told by one of the staff that it is affecting ALL airlines, so dont bother trying the "others".
Oh, and they also made an interesting observation in regard to the "guest" thing. Apparently a lot of passengers got annoyed at being constantly reffered to as being "guests", it actually became an ongoing joke in their que. Most wanted to be treated like paying "customers"!
They still like VB compared to their other option and are excited about the new buisness offerring and like most people there understood that sometimes these things happen, it was obviously a huge problem that doesn't happen everyday.
My observations from what they told me, give your ground staff a bit more confidence in dealing with this type of situation, and give them a pat on the back for trying, i would have hated to be in their situation.
They are long time VB travellers and use them for buisness as well as lesuire travel after QF basically gave them no option than fly J* from their home town, but thats another story.
What did they think? Very well handled at the start but after 3 hours of waiting things got out of control, with most people way out of their depth. A huge lack of information, and as they said its nice to have attractive young things serving you, but when they have no training or support in this type of situation it looks very amatuer. Lots of staff on the ground apologising, but none were really of any help. They were actually told by one of the staff that it is affecting ALL airlines, so dont bother trying the "others".
Oh, and they also made an interesting observation in regard to the "guest" thing. Apparently a lot of passengers got annoyed at being constantly reffered to as being "guests", it actually became an ongoing joke in their que. Most wanted to be treated like paying "customers"!
They still like VB compared to their other option and are excited about the new buisness offerring and like most people there understood that sometimes these things happen, it was obviously a huge problem that doesn't happen everyday.
My observations from what they told me, give your ground staff a bit more confidence in dealing with this type of situation, and give them a pat on the back for trying, i would have hated to be in their situation.
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Return of the Italian Stallion
Il Deuce has returned from the Singapore Grand Prix and not happy about the throngs of media waiting outside his Village. He has been noticeably cranky !
Perhaps he can harness that anger and invest in a new computer system as well as punt some of the senior Ground Operations so-called managers that should be held accountable for once (something that never occurred under Brett's rulership). Either that or allow his airline to continue losing any of it's remaining reputation as a service provider. The Australian Government is shopping around for competitive business end providers and this doesn't assist VB's cause if they can't even check-in all those eager Pollies who are in a rush to attend the next 'high tea' or corporate event interstate !
Perhaps he can harness that anger and invest in a new computer system as well as punt some of the senior Ground Operations so-called managers that should be held accountable for once (something that never occurred under Brett's rulership). Either that or allow his airline to continue losing any of it's remaining reputation as a service provider. The Australian Government is shopping around for competitive business end providers and this doesn't assist VB's cause if they can't even check-in all those eager Pollies who are in a rush to attend the next 'high tea' or corporate event interstate !
No wonder Il Deuce is cranky, just heard further reports of further delays and angry passengers this morning. Any truth to the media reports? (or is that what you call an oxymoron???)
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At VB, staff are required to refer to passengers as "guests". They have done this since they started really. Its quite a nice gesture I think although I'm sure many will disagree.
It's obviously popular with a lot of people, but I personally hate it. I think it's trite, try hard and actually demeans the pax, because a guest is supposed to put up with crap out of politeness and a customer isn't.
That said, all the CS skills in the world wouldn't have made this mess go away. IME The only 'communication' delayed pax want to hear is 'Your aircraft is ready now'. Anything else is nice and good airline PR, but doesn't actually make people feel much better.
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Another reality check
so caring for the flight crew, cabin crew, etc. isn't high on the list of priorities.
Flight/Cabin/Ground crew don't want to be 'cared' for we just want the tools to do the job and some assistance when your Windows rubbish freezes.
Don't forget in the beginning there was an Airplane and a Pilot. Gradually everything else got added as the industry grew. I.T. was one of the late joiners. You are here to assist US not the other way bud! Time to remove rather than add obstacles so we can go and fly our guest/pax/customers etc and earn your salary for you.
In the meantime its day 3 of I.T. issues destroying the company and any good reputation it had.
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Calling all guests
'Guests' was a term that was an interesting concept in DJ's early days. SRB would preach about the evil duopoly of QF/AN and how they financially raped the fare paying public etc etc, so by using the term 'guest' it showed that DJ was more than an airline, it was about the people, for the people and that it was 'all about the people'.
Yeah, sure, what a load of shyte. So anyway, here we are 10 years later, and the 'highly valued guests' are taking a huge shot up the kyber due to shyte I.T systems and particularly shyte management decisions. Silly JB has put his broom away much too early I think.
Hilarious watching Andrew David fumbling through media interviews and naturally blaming everyone else, the media spokeswoman didn't do much better and the rest of the deadbeat management hiding under the furniture while the crinkly old SRB comes out dribbling apologies for an airline he has predominately been seperated from for eons !! Not to mention the Brisbane airport manager angrily pushing away the channel 9 camera's. Now that is not a display of fun or flair, is this accepatable behaviour by a so-called manager ? A role model for other staff ? The action of a Virgin Blue ambassador ? Hardly.What a circus run by monkeys.
I wonder if this means that Il Deuce will miss his OTP bonus for this month ? Maybe its DJ's 'september to remember' and not Jetstar's ??
Yeah, sure, what a load of shyte. So anyway, here we are 10 years later, and the 'highly valued guests' are taking a huge shot up the kyber due to shyte I.T systems and particularly shyte management decisions. Silly JB has put his broom away much too early I think.
Hilarious watching Andrew David fumbling through media interviews and naturally blaming everyone else, the media spokeswoman didn't do much better and the rest of the deadbeat management hiding under the furniture while the crinkly old SRB comes out dribbling apologies for an airline he has predominately been seperated from for eons !! Not to mention the Brisbane airport manager angrily pushing away the channel 9 camera's. Now that is not a display of fun or flair, is this accepatable behaviour by a so-called manager ? A role model for other staff ? The action of a Virgin Blue ambassador ? Hardly.What a circus run by monkeys.
I wonder if this means that Il Deuce will miss his OTP bonus for this month ? Maybe its DJ's 'september to remember' and not Jetstar's ??
Last edited by Cactusjack; 29th Sep 2010 at 08:40. Reason: Computer was U/S
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"All of us at Qantas are hard at work to make your journey more enjoyable than ever.
During 2009/2010 we had our best on-time performance in 15 years for both departures and arrivals, and our best international result for nine years. We are maintaining that industry-leading punctuality this year. "
these are the first lines of an email from QF i got this morning signed by Joyce.
I find it difficult to believe that the timing is not deliberate.
During 2009/2010 we had our best on-time performance in 15 years for both departures and arrivals, and our best international result for nine years. We are maintaining that industry-leading punctuality this year. "
these are the first lines of an email from QF i got this morning signed by Joyce.
I find it difficult to believe that the timing is not deliberate.
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no idea.
but from an SLF POV i'd like to see some fleet updates. everytime i get on a 767 it appears older than me and less reliable.
also i made no comment on whether it was good or bad. and yes, i'd have done it too in Joyce's position
but from an SLF POV i'd like to see some fleet updates. everytime i get on a 767 it appears older than me and less reliable.
also i made no comment on whether it was good or bad. and yes, i'd have done it too in Joyce's position
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Personal Attacks...
Mr. Hat
Facts - smoke equals fire.
While we're on the topic of facts...
Here are some - VB staff are tired of:
- 2-5 emails just about everyday of the year about IT outages.
- Having to install software/printers at every computer they use across the entire network each time they log in.
- Citrix rubbish freezing every single time you log on and requiring 15 attempts before it works.
- Having to employ various remedies/fixes to get computers to work so you can then actually do your job.
- Having to pull printers apart every single day.
- Every third delay being due to a New Skies passenger incorrect seat allocation and having to do manual load sheet changes.
- Passwords and logins for every second page they view.
- Ringing up IT to ask for a fix and getting told "can't be done unless you lodge a ticket". Are you even remotely familiar with how much material crews have to cover in a 30 minute sign on? Great idea lets lodge a ticket. Jesus.
- Emails from IT about staff blocking up the system (YOU are blocking the system with YOUR emails about outages not US, YOU)
and last but not least ...
-MOPPING UP THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MESS WHEN 116 FLIGHTS GET CANCELLED!
Wake up buddy there's a few people on here that do have an idea of what dealing with IT systems at VB is like. You are here because of us not the other way around. More importantly WE are here because of the 60000 people sitting on the floor at various airports that pay our wages. This mess has caused untold damage to the trust in the company at the most critical of times. Some of us take pride in our work, take pride in an on time departure and a happy customer. Some of us feel genuine empathy for the family of 5 sitting on the floor in Sydney Airport. This isn't just another job to buy the latest gadget from PC magazine.
And before we blame the poor equipment provided by the company don't forget that everybody gets the same - pit crew to pilots. Ask the Ejet Captain/FO that deals with the multiple failures and gets the airplane safely on the ground every single time.
Get "intimately familiar" with that. Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella.
Full service Airline? Full service equipment, systems, culture and new management.
Keep sweeping John.
Last edited by Mr. Hat : 28th September 2010 at 10:14.
Facts - smoke equals fire.
Getting Facts Right...
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.
Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.
Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.
Here are some - VB staff are tired of:
- 2-5 emails just about everyday of the year about IT outages.
- Having to install software/printers at every computer they use across the entire network each time they log in.
- Citrix rubbish freezing every single time you log on and requiring 15 attempts before it works.
- Having to employ various remedies/fixes to get computers to work so you can then actually do your job.
- Having to pull printers apart every single day.
- Every third delay being due to a New Skies passenger incorrect seat allocation and having to do manual load sheet changes.
- Passwords and logins for every second page they view.
- Ringing up IT to ask for a fix and getting told "can't be done unless you lodge a ticket". Are you even remotely familiar with how much material crews have to cover in a 30 minute sign on? Great idea lets lodge a ticket. Jesus.
- Emails from IT about staff blocking up the system (YOU are blocking the system with YOUR emails about outages not US, YOU)
and last but not least ...
-MOPPING UP THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MESS WHEN 116 FLIGHTS GET CANCELLED!
Wake up buddy there's a few people on here that do have an idea of what dealing with IT systems at VB is like. You are here because of us not the other way around. More importantly WE are here because of the 60000 people sitting on the floor at various airports that pay our wages. This mess has caused untold damage to the trust in the company at the most critical of times. Some of us take pride in our work, take pride in an on time departure and a happy customer. Some of us feel genuine empathy for the family of 5 sitting on the floor in Sydney Airport. This isn't just another job to buy the latest gadget from PC magazine.
And before we blame the poor equipment provided by the company don't forget that everybody gets the same - pit crew to pilots. Ask the Ejet Captain/FO that deals with the multiple failures and gets the airplane safely on the ground every single time.
Get "intimately familiar" with that. Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella.
Full service Airline? Full service equipment, systems, culture and new management.
Keep sweeping John.
Last edited by Mr. Hat : 28th September 2010 at 10:14.
I never said I was involved in IT at Virgin Blue OR one of their service providers... I like you am intimately familiar with their systems - because I used them all day every day! You've made a lot of big assumptions in your "reply".
I didn't attacked any individual, but you sure have.Maybe you should find out who your attacking first?
I was at Virgin Blue for a number of years - in a role that had nothing to do with IT. I *do* know what it's like cleaning up after the system goes down. I've been there for 16 hour days, manual L&T sheets - the whole lot. I know very well what getting screamed at by thousands of stranded passengers feels like.
I was in IT for the better part of a decade, then I took a few years out to work at Virgin Blue, and am now back in the IT industry (AGAIN - in NO way involved with DJ's IT, directly or indirectly).
All I was pointing out is that, like *almost* every other airline around the world they outsource their GDS, Departure Control, etc. systems. Don't start beheading people who chose one system or the other before the root cause behind the catastrophic outage is known - QF's systems have had their fair share of issues in recent history too.
I don't think upgrading from OpenSkies to NewSkies was a good idea - Amadeus Altea would have been much better; especially since VAus already uses it. As for the other issues RE printer mappings, multiple logon's, the homebrew crew briefing and L&T systems, etc. - I never liked the way it was being done. There are many ways to fix most of the things you've outlined. Many of the people involved in selecting those systems have moved on. Some left before JB, and many since - and I say good riddance. This is their legacy.
As for the personal attack - please edit your post to be about facts, not emotion. A public apology would also be appreciated.
Delays after Qantas check-in system crash
Posted 15 minutes ago
* Map: Sydney 2000
The Qantas baggage check-in system at Sydney Airport has crashed this morning.
Qantas says the system is now back up and running and attendants are working through a back log of passengers.
But the ABC has received reports from passengers at the airport that Qantas is still doing manual check-ins and that hundreds of passengers are affected.
Posted 15 minutes ago
* Map: Sydney 2000
The Qantas baggage check-in system at Sydney Airport has crashed this morning.
Qantas says the system is now back up and running and attendants are working through a back log of passengers.
But the ABC has received reports from passengers at the airport that Qantas is still doing manual check-ins and that hundreds of passengers are affected.
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Re QF Sydney baggage system, it wasn't only Sydney - it took me over an hour to bag drop yesterday in Brisbane after self check-in, and had to walk bags to an alternate load point. **** happens.
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...but it shouldn't. We're starting to look like a 1980s version of America's Amtrak. In this day and age, we either find alternatives and people go out of business or competition comes in and finds a better way.
If all the business travel stayed home, video conferenced and e-mailed for a month, the entire industry would be in pain for years! If we keep screwing this up, it may just come to that.
If all the business travel stayed home, video conferenced and e-mailed for a month, the entire industry would be in pain for years! If we keep screwing this up, it may just come to that.
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Virgin shutting down multiple systems for up to 33hrs
Virgin shuts down computer check-in services
October 3, 2010 - 3:14PM
Virgin Blue's web and kiosk check-in services will be suspended between Tuesday and Thursday this week while the company fixes its computer problems.
And chief executive John Borghetti said the airline's online and telephone reservation services will be unavailable from 9pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until Wednesday.
Web check-in, Kiosk check-in and Check-mate will be closed from 8pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until 5am (AEDT) on Thursday.
Virgin shuts down computer check-in services
i'd be actively changing IT providers at the point.
October 3, 2010 - 3:14PM
Virgin Blue's web and kiosk check-in services will be suspended between Tuesday and Thursday this week while the company fixes its computer problems.
And chief executive John Borghetti said the airline's online and telephone reservation services will be unavailable from 9pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until Wednesday.
Web check-in, Kiosk check-in and Check-mate will be closed from 8pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until 5am (AEDT) on Thursday.
Virgin shuts down computer check-in services
i'd be actively changing IT providers at the point.
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From what I understand, they will be cutting back over from the "redundant" backup servers to the primary servers.
I would suggest that NewSkies will be dropped as soon as JB can get it done, but they won't be able to make that change for quite a while - they will have to re-work quite a large number of internal systems that interface with the GDS, and that took quite a while for the OpenSkies -> NewSkies migration.
I would suggest that NewSkies will be dropped as soon as JB can get it done, but they won't be able to make that change for quite a while - they will have to re-work quite a large number of internal systems that interface with the GDS, and that took quite a while for the OpenSkies -> NewSkies migration.