Pac Blue pulls out of NZ Domestic OPS
Certainly isn't the first domestic airline in NZ to fail and won't be the last. I never flew with them on the domestic run because they didn't fly where I wanted to go (into the regions), and if I did ever fly to Auckland it was always to connect with an international flight - so was booked either with Air NZ or Qantas (back when the red rat actually flew domestic).
But they served their purpose, they made domestic flying in New Zealand a lot more affordable to those in the major centres. But if they wanted to have a real go, maybe a bit of competition into the larger regional routes might have helped. As Invercargill, Tauranga, Nelson, Palmerston North, Hamilton and Rotorua are still gold mines for Air New Zealand..
But they served their purpose, they made domestic flying in New Zealand a lot more affordable to those in the major centres. But if they wanted to have a real go, maybe a bit of competition into the larger regional routes might have helped. As Invercargill, Tauranga, Nelson, Palmerston North, Hamilton and Rotorua are still gold mines for Air New Zealand..
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As expected with the withdrawal from the loss making NZ ops, the PB crews/aircraft will be redeployed on the other international routes bali etc. Thats one side, the other side is setting up a base in OZ and/or doing domestic flying under lower conditions. This will and should piss a lot of people off. Note to self: attend meeting on 23rd.
Probably not a good move with an up and coming EBA negotiation and launch of a new brand/strategy. In fact here in lies the opportunity for the VB pilots to drive a very hard bargain indeed. Critical business impressions will be made during this period and disruption/poor OTP is no way to impress/win over the new market. Read : Stranglehold.
As for trying to compete with Tiger and JQ forget it. Some of the posters here would have to have their salaries halved just to start with. Mates at JQ have no end of stories of low cost tactics that drive them insane on a daily basis. Have a read of their EBA, its a shocker. There are other gems like not getting paid on time or rosters being late or being called out off reserve for sim after sim after sim and finally making a mistake and being removed from line. The reality in my opinion is that B. Buchanan has only just started with the aggressive tactics. This is the tip of the iceberg.
You may think you are hurting VB managers by going late etc but what you are doing is helping the likes of J* (BB/AJ) and Tiger (SQ) get a leg up. If VB were to go under, the new bar for pilots would START at the J* EBA. Not pretty picture. There is a time to play hard and a time to play the best game you can. The first is during EBA negotiations the second is the rest of the time.
As for the new boss well his job is to turn as big a profit as he can and that means you being able to comfortably pay your mortgage. At EBA time it'll be your job/turn to increase your profit!
Probably not a good move with an up and coming EBA negotiation and launch of a new brand/strategy. In fact here in lies the opportunity for the VB pilots to drive a very hard bargain indeed. Critical business impressions will be made during this period and disruption/poor OTP is no way to impress/win over the new market. Read : Stranglehold.
As for trying to compete with Tiger and JQ forget it. Some of the posters here would have to have their salaries halved just to start with. Mates at JQ have no end of stories of low cost tactics that drive them insane on a daily basis. Have a read of their EBA, its a shocker. There are other gems like not getting paid on time or rosters being late or being called out off reserve for sim after sim after sim and finally making a mistake and being removed from line. The reality in my opinion is that B. Buchanan has only just started with the aggressive tactics. This is the tip of the iceberg.
You may think you are hurting VB managers by going late etc but what you are doing is helping the likes of J* (BB/AJ) and Tiger (SQ) get a leg up. If VB were to go under, the new bar for pilots would START at the J* EBA. Not pretty picture. There is a time to play hard and a time to play the best game you can. The first is during EBA negotiations the second is the rest of the time.
As for the new boss well his job is to turn as big a profit as he can and that means you being able to comfortably pay your mortgage. At EBA time it'll be your job/turn to increase your profit!
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 18th Aug 2010 at 05:33.
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Have the VB bean-counters looked at transferring management positions (and perhaps their own) to PB - I believe there are some big $$$ to be saved...
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Thats one side, the other side is setting up a base in OZ and/or doing domestic flying under lower conditions. This will and should piss a lot of people off. Note to self: attend meeting on 23rd.
Most PB crew understand all too well what the situation with VB is and wouldn't touch VB domestic flying with a 100 ft barge pole.
If the PB aircraft in NZ weren't redeployed on to other international routes, there would be job losses at PB, which I suppose would be cause for celebration for you lot over in Australia.
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Doubt any VB pilots want to see their cuzzy bros out of work. The concern Australian pilots have is the use of tricky tactics to bypass agreed EBA conditions ala J*.
Another poster said in another thread - 2 employees doing the identical job getting significantly different renumeration/conditions is the problem. Anyway I'm starting thread drift now. Good luck to you.
Another poster said in another thread - 2 employees doing the identical job getting significantly different renumeration/conditions is the problem. Anyway I'm starting thread drift now. Good luck to you.
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If the PB aircraft in NZ weren't redeployed on to other international routes, there would be job losses at PB
Totaly Incorrect...
PB used only two A/C on domestic opps (crap schedual they even admited this) there has been several departures over the last month all Cpts (more to come I expect) this would have easily taken care of the small amount of extra crew.
They are up grading F/O's hireing F/O's and DEC's needing up to 30 new crew .
This has nothing to do with saving Job's come on guys?!
Pac Bro can do the Job for less
Totaly Incorrect...
PB used only two A/C on domestic opps (crap schedual they even admited this) there has been several departures over the last month all Cpts (more to come I expect) this would have easily taken care of the small amount of extra crew.
They are up grading F/O's hireing F/O's and DEC's needing up to 30 new crew .
This has nothing to do with saving Job's come on guys?!
Pac Bro can do the Job for less
Cypher...
The aircraft that are being removed from the NZ domestic market are being re-deployed on international routes EX AUSTRALIA, not ex NZ. So ALL the international flying which at present is rightfully operated by VB, is being shifted to the lower cost base. End result...on this decision, a VB command upgrade course of 12 has been "deferred", F/O recruitment has been "deferred", and almost simultaneously an EOI released for VB crew to transfer to PB, on PB T & C's.
NOT ONE VB pilot wants to see a CURRENT PB pilot out of work, but correct me if im mistaken... aren't PB now actively recruiting, upgrading, and fishing for VB transferees? So rest easy, no PB job is in danger!
This decision sets a very dangerous precedent, and IMHO is purely a litmus case for further transfer of business.
The aircraft that are being removed from the NZ domestic market are being re-deployed on international routes EX AUSTRALIA, not ex NZ. So ALL the international flying which at present is rightfully operated by VB, is being shifted to the lower cost base. End result...on this decision, a VB command upgrade course of 12 has been "deferred", F/O recruitment has been "deferred", and almost simultaneously an EOI released for VB crew to transfer to PB, on PB T & C's.
NOT ONE VB pilot wants to see a CURRENT PB pilot out of work, but correct me if im mistaken... aren't PB now actively recruiting, upgrading, and fishing for VB transferees? So rest easy, no PB job is in danger!
This decision sets a very dangerous precedent, and IMHO is purely a litmus case for further transfer of business.
Last edited by flamingmoe; 18th Aug 2010 at 01:36.
. I sense a primed VB pilot group.
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Flamingmoe you are correct. It would also not take much forsight to see that any new mid size 767/787/330/350 will go to PB (V Pacific !) not V Australia if it's used for regional flights.
Also what has ANZ got out of this in the "TRADE" with the Virgin group.
Also what has ANZ got out of this in the "TRADE" with the Virgin group.
Nice to see some moderated debate on this thread now rather than the immature, unprofessional behavior and attitude from Cactus. Damaging uniforms, burning fuel - come on if you really don't like the place that much leave. You are an adult and a professional, start acting like one.
I do support the foundation of this cause, PB is hiring for expansion/attrition so it is fair to say that few/no job losses would have occurred.
PB shouldn't really be operating these services but JB has made it plainly clear VB are back to domestic, PB are medium haul. Whether we agree with that is cause for debate. Of the PB pilots I know I doubt very much they would fly a domestic sector in AU, you may get your token few who would, but most know this is a line not to be crossed.
Are VIPA talking with ALPA?
I do support the foundation of this cause, PB is hiring for expansion/attrition so it is fair to say that few/no job losses would have occurred.
PB shouldn't really be operating these services but JB has made it plainly clear VB are back to domestic, PB are medium haul. Whether we agree with that is cause for debate. Of the PB pilots I know I doubt very much they would fly a domestic sector in AU, you may get your token few who would, but most know this is a line not to be crossed.
Are VIPA talking with ALPA?
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I think about 50% of the PB pilots have no union Affiliation (protection?) so I suspect if they were asked to do a Brisbane Darwin to make the whole thing work there would be little choice but to do it or be sent packing.
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Dueweno, I really wonder about comments like yours.......................
What the hell has union membership got to do with doing the right thing? I for one don’t have union membership, for my own reasons......However I can assure you that if asked, and I think I’m in the know here old chap, myself and the very vast majority of PB pilots will NOT be pushed in to crossing a very well defined line, such as you have suggested. Some will yes, thats the case in any outfit. But not many.
My tip is either VA as they have a WB AOC or PB but with contractors doing the dirty work, as has been done in the past.
On a separate note what’s going on with RT? he seems to be laying low at the moment.
What the hell has union membership got to do with doing the right thing? I for one don’t have union membership, for my own reasons......However I can assure you that if asked, and I think I’m in the know here old chap, myself and the very vast majority of PB pilots will NOT be pushed in to crossing a very well defined line, such as you have suggested. Some will yes, thats the case in any outfit. But not many. My tip is either VA as they have a WB AOC or PB but with contractors doing the dirty work, as has been done in the past.
On a separate note what’s going on with RT? he seems to be laying low at the moment.
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The aircraft that are being removed from the NZ domestic market are being re-deployed on international routes EX AUSTRALIA, not ex NZ
PB pilots are not idiots. They would not fly domestic sectors in Australia. Union members or not.
However it was absolutely fine for VB pilots to come fly for PB, displacing command upgrades at PB when the seconded group came and did their stints in NZ.. taking their commands and doing their NZ domestic flying in NZ... nobody gave a
at VB.....