Merged: Fog proof Tullamarine?
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CAR257(6)
Have a little read of this gem.
Approach bans may not be in force in this country, but it would be interesting, to say the least, to hear the defence of a pilot of an aircraft incapable of Cat II/III who commences an approach with RVR figures anywhere like those in the SPECI above.
Having said that, other countries ATC won't even consider letting non-LoVis capable aircraft commence an approach and expedite the arrival of appropriately equipped aircraft. Go-arounds from approaches commenced in contravention of this Reg waste time, fuel and increase risk for the travelling public.
However, the novelty in this country of at last being able to actually use the full capabilities of modern aircraft in this phase of flight might take some time to sink in to those responsible for managing the show at both airline and other levels.
G'day
Approach bans may not be in force in this country, but it would be interesting, to say the least, to hear the defence of a pilot of an aircraft incapable of Cat II/III who commences an approach with RVR figures anywhere like those in the SPECI above.
Having said that, other countries ATC won't even consider letting non-LoVis capable aircraft commence an approach and expedite the arrival of appropriately equipped aircraft. Go-arounds from approaches commenced in contravention of this Reg waste time, fuel and increase risk for the travelling public.
However, the novelty in this country of at last being able to actually use the full capabilities of modern aircraft in this phase of flight might take some time to sink in to those responsible for managing the show at both airline and other levels.
G'day
Feather is right on the money here.
There has always been a culture in Aus that you can "Go and have a look". But is vis is well below minimum, you have no "Reasnoble expectaion" of a landing, and are totally exposed if anything goes wrong.
There has always been a culture in Aus that you can "Go and have a look". But is vis is well below minimum, you have no "Reasnoble expectaion" of a landing, and are totally exposed if anything goes wrong.
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CASA Low Vis approvals include approach ban information. If the RVR is below minima an approach cannot be commenced, if the reported RVR falls below minima and the aircraft is below 1000 feet the approach can be continued.
CASA Low Vis approvals include approach ban information. If the RVR is below minima an approach cannot be commenced
ASMGCS and ML ILS replacement got a mention at Waypoint 2010.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projectsservices/industryforums/waypoint/2010/presentations/workshop4.pdf
Pity Low Vis operations and approval weren't discussed...
Last edited by missy; 5th Jun 2010 at 07:18. Reason: clarity
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Yes but in fairness you are talking about RVR when the 'have a look' mentality was more cloud-base oriented. WX on approach to RW16 at YMML can often hover well above and below ceiling minimas and the only way to really test it is to actually go to the minima and see what's there. Approach bans would be daft in those circumstances. The old TAA 'monitored-approach' was perfect for the above scenario.
LWMO tends to be more RVR-limiting and this is where the have a look approach is not suitable and open to cowboys with get-in-itis - especially if they don't know how to put A320 levers into the TOGA detent ;-)
LWMO tends to be more RVR-limiting and this is where the have a look approach is not suitable and open to cowboys with get-in-itis - especially if they don't know how to put A320 levers into the TOGA detent ;-)
Those who flew internationally understood the ramifications of CAT II & III......
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A few years ago couple of American bizjet pilots found out the hard way what the implications are for shooting an approach with approach bans in place in Russia. Apparently they were locked up for for nearly a week....
"aaaaaah going round...."
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The "go and have a look" was all about ATC declaring a ground visibility while a pilot can observe a flight visibility, hence many a pilot has landed because he could see what he needed. RVR transmissometers have changed that.
Another reason for approach bans is to allow departures. With a sky full of circling aircraft getting near their latest divert times no-one gets to depart even though the departure minimum is often better than the landing.
Another reason for approach bans is to allow departures. With a sky full of circling aircraft getting near their latest divert times no-one gets to depart even though the departure minimum is often better than the landing.
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Melbourne ILS
During the fog on 3rd June, 32 aircraft landed when LVP were in progress. For the same period the week before there were 55 landings. The difference being CAT I aircraft which could not land. Without CAT III there would have been no landings on 3rd.
During the fog on 3rd June, 32 aircraft landed when LVP were in progress. For the same period the week before there were 55 landings.
Interesting stats, are you able to advise how many non-CAT III aircraft made an approach?
tks
Interesting stats, are you able to advise how many non-CAT III aircraft made an approach?
tks
Last edited by missy; 12th Jun 2010 at 08:56. Reason: pagination
I understand that MEL required 15 mins between successive departures FROM all airports. At SYD the 15 mins quickly became a 90 minute delay for the last SYD-MEL aircraft.
Missy:-- Are you able to tell us how many per hour landed during the LVP and what was the average holding time required.
I need to know how much extra fuel to carry next time fog is forecast
I need to know how much extra fuel to carry next time fog is forecast
Tank, fair enough. As far as I'm aware ATC has no way of knowing what cat ILS a particular aircraft is capable of until we're told. Perhaps your company (presuming you fly for one of them) needs to talk to Airservices about developing some procedures.