V Australia challenged by AFAP for CR FO pay
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V Australia challenged by AFAP for CR FO pay
News from AFAP a couple of days ago claims that the CR FO's are seeking clarification regarding the current award which amounts to around $88,895 (currently payed around $60,000) based on the definition of the "Air Pilots Award 2010" which states that;"
"first officer means a pilot who is appointed as first officer by the employer and who currently is licensed by CASA to act as second or third in command of an aircraft requiring two or more pilots"
I would expect it would be very difficult for any arbitrator at a tribunal to disagree with this ruling!
http://www.airc.gov.au/awardmod/awards/MA000046.pdf
"first officer means a pilot who is appointed as first officer by the employer and who currently is licensed by CASA to act as second or third in command of an aircraft requiring two or more pilots"
I would expect it would be very difficult for any arbitrator at a tribunal to disagree with this ruling!
http://www.airc.gov.au/awardmod/awards/MA000046.pdf
Nunc est bibendum
The other possible angle is that they're not a 'first officer' per se, they're a 'cruise first officer' which is an all together different type of rank and the award is silent about how they're to be paid. 
The other possible angle is that they're not a 'first officer' per se, they're a 'cruise first officer' which is an all together different type of rank and the award is silent about how they're to be paid.
is licensed by CASA to act as second or third in command of an aircraft requiring two or more pilots
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I doubt VA will be around in 6 months time and the AFAP is wasting its' money
pursuing the argument on behalf of a few disgruntled CRFO's. Perhaps you guys should have taken union advice before you signed your individual agreements on crap conditions.
pursuing the argument on behalf of a few disgruntled CRFO's. Perhaps you guys should have taken union advice before you signed your individual agreements on crap conditions.
Last edited by Grey Nomad; 31st May 2010 at 12:43.
I highly doubt they won't be around in a years time. They may be called something different but they will still be there and expanding and entering into new markets offering a fresh product that the incumbents with their excess baggage can't compete with. People said VB wouldn't last six months too.
For what it's worth, I hope they're still here in a year - after a decade slugging my guts out at four airlines, redundancies, 60hour weeks (inc 20 hour duties) for $24,000pa, management fear campaigns, $55,000 in flying training down the drain for a medical issue that 'arose' weeks after completion, (and with respect to the stalwarts, I know much of this is nothing new) - it'd sure be nice to try out a flatbed on a long haul flight at staff rates.
On the other hand, having recently stopped flying - for the sake of my mortgage (my other half flies for VB) - there's an element of hope that they'll remove the infected limb - or come up with a cure 'yesterday'!
My family seriously regard me as 'not of sound mind' for 'missing' the industry. (I pass it off as alcoholism, as at least they can maintain some hope in that there's a 12 step program for that).
On the other hand, having recently stopped flying - for the sake of my mortgage (my other half flies for VB) - there's an element of hope that they'll remove the infected limb - or come up with a cure 'yesterday'!
My family seriously regard me as 'not of sound mind' for 'missing' the industry. (I pass it off as alcoholism, as at least they can maintain some hope in that there's a 12 step program for that).
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Relax everyone!....... the feds are onto it.
VA are about to bombarded with a volley of "stern" letters
VA are about to bombarded with a volley of "stern" letters
I think VA are in for a stern frowning. But not too stern, and only behind closed doors, we don't want to offend any management types.
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For sure!
When I think of the feds flexing muscle these days I'm reminded of that Sorbent dunny paper add, you know the one with those cuddly, wrinkly, toothless little puppies gnawing at one another but not managing to tear the dunny paper!
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
When I think of the feds flexing muscle these days I'm reminded of that Sorbent dunny paper add, you know the one with those cuddly, wrinkly, toothless little puppies gnawing at one another but not managing to tear the dunny paper!
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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As much as i wish that cruise F/O's were on better employment conditions, I can't help but feel that they're being used as unwitting pawns by an aging, dying organisation desperately trying to display a shred of legitimacy & virility in a desperate attempt to maintain their dwindling constituency. It's a big gamble; AFAP's loss will be coup de tat for VIPA. And then who will the AFAP represent? I can see Tiger pilots eventually uniting under their own representation. Then who? Reminds me of a song.
Hello AFAP my old friend.
You were useless to the end.
Whilst you were off away sleeping.
A brand new union was breeding.
And few die-hard disputers' were your only friends...right to the end.
You deserve the sound...of silence.
And so now you walk alone.
And soon you'll be bloody gone.
If it's the last thing we do.
The way you've treated us is how we'll treat you.
With indifference and disdain...the bloody same.
The sound of silence...
Hello AFAP my old friend.
You were useless to the end.
Whilst you were off away sleeping.
A brand new union was breeding.
And few die-hard disputers' were your only friends...right to the end.
You deserve the sound...of silence.
And so now you walk alone.
And soon you'll be bloody gone.
If it's the last thing we do.
The way you've treated us is how we'll treat you.
With indifference and disdain...the bloody same.
The sound of silence...
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Is there another way to get a decent job than what appears to be the current practice of signing up to anything quickly so as not to miss out and then winge/complain to a union or pilot association about what a crap deal it is and blame everyone for not helping to fix it.
How do people expect to be taken seriously !
How do people expect to be taken seriously !
Last edited by Toruk Macto; 1st Jun 2010 at 09:15.
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Im told that some CFO's were misled into believing they would have career progression within V or VB.
Recently a few have been told the bad news......
With no prospect of promotion this is their only shot at a payrise without leaving the group.
Must be a happy workplace.
Recently a few have been told the bad news......
With no prospect of promotion this is their only shot at a payrise without leaving the group.
Must be a happy workplace.
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Im told that some CFO's were misled into believing they would have career progression within V or VB.
Recently a few have been told the bad news......
With no prospect of promotion this is their only shot at a payrise without leaving the group.
Recently a few have been told the bad news......
With no prospect of promotion this is their only shot at a payrise without leaving the group.
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It was well known within the industry that these cruise F/O positions were pathetic, I find it funny they are complaining now that they realise their pay is crap and no chance of real progression? Like Deers with no eyes...
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When many of these folks took their jobs it was the best thing going at the time. The trick I suppose is to be able to look back and realise that. The second trick would be to remember that you can always leave (return of service requirements need to be considered when you accept the position).
There's nothing wrong with having a bit of a whinge about conditions even if you did sign up for them, so long as you're trying to work with the system or better your lot.
FRQ CB
There's nothing wrong with having a bit of a whinge about conditions even if you did sign up for them, so long as you're trying to work with the system or better your lot.
FRQ CB