Australia to London for $378?
The LCC argument doesn't really work in Asia as most airlines pay for the entire cost of training their pilots. I believe the airline in question also does the same.
It makes the Australian system look utterly ridiculous. Even more so when Australian CEOs say that the Australian cost base is too high!!
I would guess that these guys wouldn't have too much exposure to VOR approaches or NPAs for that matter.
It makes the Australian system look utterly ridiculous. Even more so when Australian CEOs say that the Australian cost base is too high!!
I would guess that these guys wouldn't have too much exposure to VOR approaches or NPAs for that matter.
Air Asia have their own flying school in Langkawi. Obviously NDB/VOR approaches would be covered in training but with very little GA in Malaysia most of the airports are equipped with ILS and suitable for airliners. Aussie pilots would be far more familiar with NPAs from their time of night freight in Chieftains going into YSBK or right seat in a SAAB 340 going into YBNA on a wet day.
Air Asia pay the cost of training BUT the bond is horrendous, unless from a wealthy family a pilot couldn't afford to buy his way out given the relatively low incomes in Malaysia.
Pay is low and work is hard, six sector days not unusual.
Having spent a considerable amount of money on a cadet off the street, the airline would be averse to chopping someone at an advanced stage in the training. Remember they are a commercial organization which has to make a profit, unlike the air force which spends government money. The pressure would be on to give the benefit of the doubt to a marginal candidate.
Australian low costs require a self funded licence and endorsement to work for them. If a candidate fails the line training the cost of a chop is insignificant to the airline and they simply pull the next one off the pile. Unsuitable people are far less likely to slide through.
BTW Is the phrase "That's not how we did things at Ansett." being used much in Jetstar ?
Air Asia pay the cost of training BUT the bond is horrendous, unless from a wealthy family a pilot couldn't afford to buy his way out given the relatively low incomes in Malaysia.
Pay is low and work is hard, six sector days not unusual.
Having spent a considerable amount of money on a cadet off the street, the airline would be averse to chopping someone at an advanced stage in the training. Remember they are a commercial organization which has to make a profit, unlike the air force which spends government money. The pressure would be on to give the benefit of the doubt to a marginal candidate.
Australian low costs require a self funded licence and endorsement to work for them. If a candidate fails the line training the cost of a chop is insignificant to the airline and they simply pull the next one off the pile. Unsuitable people are far less likely to slide through.
BTW Is the phrase "That's not how we did things at Ansett." being used much in Jetstar ?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"BTW Is the phrase "That's not how we did things at Ansett." being used much in Jetstar"
It has more credibility than "Thats how we did things at impulse".
Every airline pilot in the world who moves to a different carrier makes a comparison to the previous outfit.
It has more credibility than "Thats how we did things at impulse".
Every airline pilot in the world who moves to a different carrier makes a comparison to the previous outfit.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Beech or the Office.
Age: 14
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AnQrKa
Have never worked for either AN or IMP,
But wasn't aware that AN operated the B717 or B1900. The 320 came along long after IMPULSE was morphed in JQ.
And BTW, with the intro of the B717 back in 2001, they actually did employ a few highly qualified guys as DECS; ex RAAF/CX/etc.
And who said AN procedures were world's best practice either?
Just an honest question?
Have never worked for either AN or IMP,
But wasn't aware that AN operated the B717 or B1900. The 320 came along long after IMPULSE was morphed in JQ.
And BTW, with the intro of the B717 back in 2001, they actually did employ a few highly qualified guys as DECS; ex RAAF/CX/etc.
And who said AN procedures were world's best practice either?
Just an honest question?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Norma,
"And who said AN procedures were world's best practice either?"
Ahhhh, no body. Re read the post buddy.
So you reckon 2 years operating a couple of 717's put impulse in a good position to take on ex AN drivers with umpteen thousand hours of bus time and tell them "shut up, no need for your input, we have it covered".
I wonder how well that went down with CASA. We all know the answer to that.
Icarus,
Lets come back when JQ has operated for 60 plus years and see what interesting pics are available.
"And who said AN procedures were world's best practice either?"
Ahhhh, no body. Re read the post buddy.
So you reckon 2 years operating a couple of 717's put impulse in a good position to take on ex AN drivers with umpteen thousand hours of bus time and tell them "shut up, no need for your input, we have it covered".
I wonder how well that went down with CASA. We all know the answer to that.
Icarus,
Lets come back when JQ has operated for 60 plus years and see what interesting pics are available.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“You wouldn't go to see a low cost heart surgeon would you?!”
Yes. If the surgeon provided surgery for lower cost, why not.
If a surgeon could trim the cost of an operation by reducing service such as no magazines in the waiting room, no validated car parking out back, fewer office staff at the counter, no free coffee, then why would you pay for the extras if you don’t want them?
Yes. If the surgeon provided surgery for lower cost, why not.
If a surgeon could trim the cost of an operation by reducing service such as no magazines in the waiting room, no validated car parking out back, fewer office staff at the counter, no free coffee, then why would you pay for the extras if you don’t want them?
Does the author really think that taking away magazines,coffee etc.....would have a significant impact on medical costs?
The main difference between the medical specialists and crew is that the medical specialists wouldn't undercut each other to get work.....
Also the comparison between the new LCC's and QF is as weak as you could get...
Let's wait until those new LCC's have operated for as long and extensively as QF has and then you can sit down and compare them on an incident basis....
The reality is that the LCC is not around to benefit the passenger.....
It's around to benefit the owners of the LCC....
The reality is that the LCC is not around to benefit the passenger.....
It's around to benefit the owners of the LCC....
It's around to benefit the owners of the LCC....
You don't think that "the passengers" is the answer do you?
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So who are the non LCC airlines there to benefit? You don't think that "the passengers" is the answer do you?
The reality is that any airline is there to make money as is any business...
The difference between the LCC's and legacy airlines is that the idea behind LCC's was to slash the cost of airline staff and give the punter even less than they were getting before....
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“I didn't know about that one. What happened?”
Do some research; the information is out there.
“Does the author really think that taking away magazines,coffee etc.....would have a significant impact on medical costs?”
No, I did not imply that such a practice would make a “significant” impact. I was using the example to illustrate a principal. You have obviously missed the main point I am trying to make.
The qualifications and competency of the surgeon, like the pilot of a low cost carrier, are unrelated to the services provided in the waiting room of the surgery or the cabin of an aeroplane. Some carriers such as Ryanair anticipate reducing service to virtually zero including the provision of standing room only. But they will not be employing pilots with less experience or providing them with fewer training sessions.
The pilot has the same licensing requirements and training and checking targets regardless of what service is provided to the customer. There is only one regulator.
“Let's wait until those new LCC's have operated for as long and extensively as QF has and then you can sit down and compare them on an incident basis....”
Lets do it now. WN now operate almost 3500 sectors per day. They have operated 10 times more sectors in their entire history thus far than QF has in its entire history. Based on the few accidents the carriers have each had, WN outshines QF by a significant margin. WN is a low cost carrier.
“The main difference between the medical specialists and crew is that the medical specialists wouldn't undercut each other to get work.....”
No, they wouldn’t. Doctors and surgeons exist in a regulated system limiting labour access to the market place. They don’t need to undercut each other. Much like pilots once operated under the Two Airline Policy in Australia for 40 years. I don’t recall TN or AN pilots ever undercutting each other until deregulation.
Doctors and surgeons would do exactly the same were the barriers to their labour market removed.
“The reality is that the LCC is not around to benefit the passenger..... It's around to benefit the owners of the LCC....”
The stupidity of this comment has already been addressed.
Do some research; the information is out there.
“Does the author really think that taking away magazines,coffee etc.....would have a significant impact on medical costs?”
No, I did not imply that such a practice would make a “significant” impact. I was using the example to illustrate a principal. You have obviously missed the main point I am trying to make.
The qualifications and competency of the surgeon, like the pilot of a low cost carrier, are unrelated to the services provided in the waiting room of the surgery or the cabin of an aeroplane. Some carriers such as Ryanair anticipate reducing service to virtually zero including the provision of standing room only. But they will not be employing pilots with less experience or providing them with fewer training sessions.
The pilot has the same licensing requirements and training and checking targets regardless of what service is provided to the customer. There is only one regulator.
“Let's wait until those new LCC's have operated for as long and extensively as QF has and then you can sit down and compare them on an incident basis....”
Lets do it now. WN now operate almost 3500 sectors per day. They have operated 10 times more sectors in their entire history thus far than QF has in its entire history. Based on the few accidents the carriers have each had, WN outshines QF by a significant margin. WN is a low cost carrier.
“The main difference between the medical specialists and crew is that the medical specialists wouldn't undercut each other to get work.....”
No, they wouldn’t. Doctors and surgeons exist in a regulated system limiting labour access to the market place. They don’t need to undercut each other. Much like pilots once operated under the Two Airline Policy in Australia for 40 years. I don’t recall TN or AN pilots ever undercutting each other until deregulation.
Doctors and surgeons would do exactly the same were the barriers to their labour market removed.
“The reality is that the LCC is not around to benefit the passenger..... It's around to benefit the owners of the LCC....”
The stupidity of this comment has already been addressed.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, I did not imply that such a practice would make a “significant” impact
“You wouldn't go to see a low cost heart surgeon would you?!”
Yes. If the surgeon provided surgery for lower cost, why not.
If a surgeon could trim the cost of an operation by reducing service such as no magazines in the waiting room
Yes. If the surgeon provided surgery for lower cost, why not.
If a surgeon could trim the cost of an operation by reducing service such as no magazines in the waiting room
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Beech or the Office.
Age: 14
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ANQrKA
easy up tiger, take a chill pill.
So you reckon 2 years operating a couple of 717's put impulse in a good position to take on ex AN drivers with umpteen thousand hours of bus time and tell them "shut up, no need for your input, we have it covered".
I didn't say anything of the sought mate. Your words not mine. What is it with ex AN guys getting so defensive when ever anybody questions anything about AN. It's ok to hurl abuse at QF/DJ etc but as soon as somebody mentions AN, well thats another story.
Get over it mate, time moves on. You're in beautiful HK now breathing all that fresh air and enjoying all the wonderful open spaces.
easy up tiger, take a chill pill.
So you reckon 2 years operating a couple of 717's put impulse in a good position to take on ex AN drivers with umpteen thousand hours of bus time and tell them "shut up, no need for your input, we have it covered".
I didn't say anything of the sought mate. Your words not mine. What is it with ex AN guys getting so defensive when ever anybody questions anything about AN. It's ok to hurl abuse at QF/DJ etc but as soon as somebody mentions AN, well thats another story.
Get over it mate, time moves on. You're in beautiful HK now breathing all that fresh air and enjoying all the wonderful open spaces.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
norma,
Defensive, maybe . . .a little.
"It's ok to hurl abuse at QF/DJ etc but as soon as somebody mentions AN, well thats another story."
I dont "hurl abuse" at QF/DJ or any other airline for that matter. I merely commented on the fact that Impulse were operationally better off with the experience bought in by ex AN pilots, thats all. CASA appears to have agreed.
As for getting over it. I cant speak for my ex AN mates but I wanted to wear a blue shirt from when I was wearing a blue nappy. It really hurt when AN went under, and it still does a bit . . . occasionally.
Perhaps if you had been in similar shoes you would be a bit more . . . .understanding. But I suspect you have never had the misfortune of seeing your career job collapse from under you. You fortunate soul.
Defensive, maybe . . .a little.
"It's ok to hurl abuse at QF/DJ etc but as soon as somebody mentions AN, well thats another story."
I dont "hurl abuse" at QF/DJ or any other airline for that matter. I merely commented on the fact that Impulse were operationally better off with the experience bought in by ex AN pilots, thats all. CASA appears to have agreed.
As for getting over it. I cant speak for my ex AN mates but I wanted to wear a blue shirt from when I was wearing a blue nappy. It really hurt when AN went under, and it still does a bit . . . occasionally.
Perhaps if you had been in similar shoes you would be a bit more . . . .understanding. But I suspect you have never had the misfortune of seeing your career job collapse from under you. You fortunate soul.
Like it or not, there is no way Jetstar would have been allowed to expand as quickly as it did without the corporate knowledge of the ex-Ansett pilots.
You should all be very happy in your low cost paradise.
You should all be very happy in your low cost paradise.
Originally Posted by Normascars
The 320 came along long after IMPULSE was morphed in JQ.
JQ commence services - 25/4/04
VH-JQG delivered - 21/6/04
???
