Aircraft too low in SEQ??
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Capn Bloggs
Don't you mean nav. One does not have to fly a fully managed approach. You can fly nav plus selected vertically which is what i think happened here. They've missed out on the first app then decided to get down to 1500 to try and get visual. Possibly.
You have a better idea. We don't call it it VNAV on the bus.
Don't you mean nav. One does not have to fly a fully managed approach. You can fly nav plus selected vertically which is what i think happened here. They've missed out on the first app then decided to get down to 1500 to try and get visual. Possibly.
You have a better idea. We don't call it it VNAV on the bus.
Could also have been track/ flight path angle. Establish inbound on the radial in track mode, the aircraft should then maintain this course (in practice a couple of tiny adjustments are necessary).
Select a FPA of -3deg unless it's obvious a different angle is needed. MONITOR the whole way down and adjust as necessary. Plenty of clues available, DME vs ALT on the chart, PROG on runway threshold and check 3 to 1. Above all DO NOT descend below the steps.
If you know how to use the equipment it's far easier than doing it in a light twin. You have a TV screen on which you can extend the runway center line and monitor that. The wings stay level by themselves, you have much greater stability in gusts or turbulence and the auto thrust looks after speed control.
Select a FPA of -3deg unless it's obvious a different angle is needed. MONITOR the whole way down and adjust as necessary. Plenty of clues available, DME vs ALT on the chart, PROG on runway threshold and check 3 to 1. Above all DO NOT descend below the steps.
If you know how to use the equipment it's far easier than doing it in a light twin. You have a TV screen on which you can extend the runway center line and monitor that. The wings stay level by themselves, you have much greater stability in gusts or turbulence and the auto thrust looks after speed control.
Don't you mean nav.
Whatever happened (they were on their second approach at the time) they did another missed approach and didn't come back for some time. I'm sure that, after missing out the first time, they'd be using LNAV and VNAV, if they had it. Obviously not...
4 descent modes available on A320, assuming same for A330.
DES - Managed descent, aircraft complies with constraints given in the STAR ie above, below, or at the required altitude at way points.
OPEN DESC - Aircraft drops without regard to constraints.
VS - Vertical speed, selected number of feet per minute.
FPA - Flight Path Angle, number of degrees down. Normally used only on manually flown approaches.
DES - Managed descent, aircraft complies with constraints given in the STAR ie above, below, or at the required altitude at way points.
OPEN DESC - Aircraft drops without regard to constraints.
VS - Vertical speed, selected number of feet per minute.
FPA - Flight Path Angle, number of degrees down. Normally used only on manually flown approaches.
They haven't done a GPS.
How did you work that out and what have they done?
So DES is VNAV. By the look of it, they certainly weren't in it. Should have been on their second go, unless they were either gluttons for punishment or it wasn't available....
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From Webtrack link posted earlier. The following data is observed on 4th May 2010.
07:04am - Domestic arrival lands runway 32.
07:28am - Said aircraft (first) Go Round from runway 32 approach. At my best guess about 1000ft high on profile.
07:30am - Domestic arrival lands runway 32.
07:40am - Said aircraft (second) Go Round from runway 32 approach. At my best guess 1200ft low on profile becomming 150ft high on profile at later stage of the approach.
07:56am - Said aircraft (third) Go Round from Runway 14 approach. At my best guess approach on profile.
08:01am - Domestic arrival lands runway 14.
08:20am - Domestic arrival lands runway 14.
MC
07:04am - Domestic arrival lands runway 32.
07:28am - Said aircraft (first) Go Round from runway 32 approach. At my best guess about 1000ft high on profile.
07:30am - Domestic arrival lands runway 32.
07:40am - Said aircraft (second) Go Round from runway 32 approach. At my best guess 1200ft low on profile becomming 150ft high on profile at later stage of the approach.
07:56am - Said aircraft (third) Go Round from Runway 14 approach. At my best guess approach on profile.
08:01am - Domestic arrival lands runway 14.
08:20am - Domestic arrival lands runway 14.
MC
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Must have had plenty of fuel......one hopes! 
And landed BNE at around 8.23am. A long ride for the punters! If any down the back had any idea what was going on there, they would be more than anxious.
I wonder did the crew greet the pax as they walked off.
And landed BNE at around 8.23am. A long ride for the punters! If any down the back had any idea what was going on there, they would be more than anxious
.I wonder did the crew greet the pax as they walked off.
Last edited by Jabawocky; 16th May 2010 at 12:38.
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I wonder did the crew greet the pax as they walked off.
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Here's the full METAR for 07:00 & 08:00am
METAR YBCG 032100Z AUTO 34005KT 3100NDV // SCT011 BKN015 OVC026 20/18 Q1021
METAR YBCG 032200Z AUTO 10012KT 3200NDV // SCT008 BKN016 OVC039 20/18 Q1021
METAR YBCG 032100Z AUTO 34005KT 3100NDV // SCT011 BKN015 OVC026 20/18 Q1021
METAR YBCG 032200Z AUTO 10012KT 3200NDV // SCT008 BKN016 OVC039 20/18 Q1021
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hmmmm
29th of May was a ****ty morning wx wise, but not that bad.....the Retard Vehicle would have been fine into YBCG............so what is going on here? There are places around that have far worse wx on a regular basis than SEQ
29th of May was a ****ty morning wx wise, but not that bad.....the Retard Vehicle would have been fine into YBCG............so what is going on here? There are places around that have far worse wx on a regular basis than SEQ
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Same pilot mabye? Never ceases to amaze me. And yes, this guy was stood down (new to A333 also) after ramming into the terminal.
Photos: Airbus A330-343E Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: Airbus A330-343E Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
So... the conclusion is pilot error, hah?
What was the FO doing during all this? The usual "too afraid to speak up sitting next to a highly experienced captain" scenario? I thought that was in the past even in asian airlines.
What was the FO doing during all this? The usual "too afraid to speak up sitting next to a highly experienced captain" scenario? I thought that was in the past even in asian airlines.
There are places around that have far worse wx on a regular basis than SEQ
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And your point is??? There are published approaches for YBCG follow them get viual and land or conduct the Missed Approach. That's not exactly what we saw several times. 
My point is that the Gold Coast minima is way to high and leaves you in a very grey area as you often break free of the cloud at 1000' but are then left to manoeuvre to align with the runway in and out of rain showers.
What makes it worse is that rain is very unpredictable. We have gotten in comfortably in showers at the Gold Coast only to have everyone behind us go round because the rain suddenly increased in intensity. A worse scenario is that you get visual start manoeuvring then lose sight of the runway and have to go around from 300'.
That weather you describe as being 'not to bad' on the day in question is actually below the minima for the approach at both ends.
If YBCG had an ILS this discussion would not be taking place.
What makes it worse is that rain is very unpredictable. We have gotten in comfortably in showers at the Gold Coast only to have everyone behind us go round because the rain suddenly increased in intensity. A worse scenario is that you get visual start manoeuvring then lose sight of the runway and have to go around from 300'.
That weather you describe as being 'not to bad' on the day in question is actually below the minima for the approach at both ends.
If YBCG had an ILS this discussion would not be taking place.
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Neville
Sorry to have confused you but the comment I made about the 29th of May and the wx not being as bad is possibly being mixed in your mind with the original incident which was some rather "strange" flying in the 3 approaches made on the 4th of May.
The MDA's seem to be around 700-800 feet, and several others made it in first go either side of their 3 approaches. Not saying its not possible with bad luck, but when you consider the radar tracks.......I am glad I wwas not on board
.
Something is very fishy about these incidents.
hope that cleasr things up a bit.
J
Sorry to have confused you but the comment I made about the 29th of May and the wx not being as bad is possibly being mixed in your mind with the original incident which was some rather "strange" flying in the 3 approaches made on the 4th of May.
The MDA's seem to be around 700-800 feet, and several others made it in first go either side of their 3 approaches. Not saying its not possible with bad luck, but when you consider the radar tracks.......I am glad I wwas not on board
.Something is very fishy about these incidents.
hope that cleasr things up a bit.
J
What I mean is that the minima is to high to land safely in a heavy rain shower. You clear the cloud but are still not visual and cannot land.
Nothing can be done about the minima other than build a new airport in an appropriate location. For an international airport not to have an ILS with a minima at 200 odd feet isn't an ideal situation for somewhere as busy as the Gold Coast.
Nothing can be done about the minima other than build a new airport in an appropriate location. For an international airport not to have an ILS with a minima at 200 odd feet isn't an ideal situation for somewhere as busy as the Gold Coast.