Report Changing to CTAF, please
Rotorblades,
Don't take your bat and ball and go home yet ...
In essence, what you say above is the correct response. Why would you break the rules? Why wouldn't you do the correct paperwork etc?
However, in practice, in Controlled Airspace, asking for preferred treatment (using correct phraseology) I would think is quite kosher and normal. You don't have to provide it, if not available, or not permitted.
But using home made procedures or phraseology OCTA ... is quite another matter ... as safe operations OCTA depend on understanding what the other bloke is, or is intending to do.
Okay, as per the book it will be, be advised this means:
No Direct Tracking.
Full paperwork for all missed calls, then it can be officially sourced as to why two-way comms arent being maintained.
I expect no more departures from a certain aerodrome to call up on frequency with "climbing to FLxxx expecting direct to ABC"
No Direct Tracking.
Full paperwork for all missed calls, then it can be officially sourced as to why two-way comms arent being maintained.
I expect no more departures from a certain aerodrome to call up on frequency with "climbing to FLxxx expecting direct to ABC"
In essence, what you say above is the correct response. Why would you break the rules? Why wouldn't you do the correct paperwork etc?
However, in practice, in Controlled Airspace, asking for preferred treatment (using correct phraseology) I would think is quite kosher and normal. You don't have to provide it, if not available, or not permitted.
But using home made procedures or phraseology OCTA ... is quite another matter ... as safe operations OCTA depend on understanding what the other bloke is, or is intending to do.
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Dont worry Peuce, I havent gone home yet. though most of you probably wish I would!
In the quote you missed out the bit at the end
I was just playing the literal card on the table for those who may no know the constrictions placed on ATCers.
My point about ATC going beyond with getting preferred treatment was that we did a lot without the requests first, i.e. direct to the feeder fix, swapping runways (to the one closer to the terminal) etc.
Homemade procedures - I'm not talking about changing procedures, no that way anyway.
Homemade phraseology - In an ideal world everything will be in the book, one way & easily understandable. But it isnt, maybe that needs looking at?
What I'm basically getting at is 'clear & concise'. Which the book isnt always, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion!
The book in itself seems to contradict itself with in one sentence saying must tell ATC if not at least monitoring the frequency and in another saying two-way comms must be maintained.
But this pales into insignifance when on another thread Dick is encouraging IFR flights to bust into E without a clearance if in VMC!
When I rule the world all airports with RPT flights will have ATC & a control zone with easy access to CTA/Airways sytem.
IN SUMMARY
I think everyone needs to bare in mind the safety implications of anything they intend to do. Not just to themselves but to other aircraft in the system. It only takes a second for attention to be distracted by one thing (be that a pilot trying to transmit/monitor on CTAF & Area or ATC distracted by an unanswered call and something go wrong in his/her airspace 150nm to the north) for safety to be compromised.
I can assure everyone I have read & taken onboard all comments, suggestions, points of view. Its a learning process for everyone. And as I said in an earlier post, If you think there's nothing new to learn or you know everything - its time to quit.
I hope we can have a few more threads, similar to this one, in which everyone can post constructive discussions without just trying to slag everyone else down. We may not have actually 'solved' anything but I think we've come away with better understanding & respect (most of us, anyway)
Thanks again to all who have added to the discussion with their points & views
In the quote you missed out the bit at the end
Devils advocate
My point about ATC going beyond with getting preferred treatment was that we did a lot without the requests first, i.e. direct to the feeder fix, swapping runways (to the one closer to the terminal) etc.
Homemade procedures - I'm not talking about changing procedures, no that way anyway.
Homemade phraseology - In an ideal world everything will be in the book, one way & easily understandable. But it isnt, maybe that needs looking at?
What I'm basically getting at is 'clear & concise'. Which the book isnt always, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion!
The book in itself seems to contradict itself with in one sentence saying must tell ATC if not at least monitoring the frequency and in another saying two-way comms must be maintained.
But this pales into insignifance when on another thread Dick is encouraging IFR flights to bust into E without a clearance if in VMC!
When I rule the world all airports with RPT flights will have ATC & a control zone with easy access to CTA/Airways sytem.
IN SUMMARY
I think everyone needs to bare in mind the safety implications of anything they intend to do. Not just to themselves but to other aircraft in the system. It only takes a second for attention to be distracted by one thing (be that a pilot trying to transmit/monitor on CTAF & Area or ATC distracted by an unanswered call and something go wrong in his/her airspace 150nm to the north) for safety to be compromised.
I can assure everyone I have read & taken onboard all comments, suggestions, points of view. Its a learning process for everyone. And as I said in an earlier post, If you think there's nothing new to learn or you know everything - its time to quit.
I hope we can have a few more threads, similar to this one, in which everyone can post constructive discussions without just trying to slag everyone else down. We may not have actually 'solved' anything but I think we've come away with better understanding & respect (most of us, anyway)
Thanks again to all who have added to the discussion with their points & views
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Rotor,
Yes I have and will again do things outside the realms of rules and regs if I think that it will lead to a safer outcome, as I am sure you have/would... Yes; not every situation can be accounted for in a manual, it is for this reason that both ATC and Pilots go through some pretty intense training. But training can really only equip one with the ability to gain experience.
I think it entirely depends on the time of day, traffic, airfield, weather, crew, moon phase etc... A little bit of commonsense is needed.
I feel for you ATC guys and am in two minds as to the issue.
I will now return to my rightful spot on the fence.
Good thread!
Yes I have and will again do things outside the realms of rules and regs if I think that it will lead to a safer outcome, as I am sure you have/would... Yes; not every situation can be accounted for in a manual, it is for this reason that both ATC and Pilots go through some pretty intense training. But training can really only equip one with the ability to gain experience.
I think it entirely depends on the time of day, traffic, airfield, weather, crew, moon phase etc... A little bit of commonsense is needed.
I feel for you ATC guys and am in two minds as to the issue.
I will now return to my rightful spot on the fence.
Good thread!
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hi bythenumbers,
I concur. As for being in two minds, I cant really help you there. Its something everyone has to weigh up pros & cons, and safety implications before they decide which way to fall.
I will still continue to provide my best service to anyone, be them changing, not changing or monitoring, to the best of abilities.
which if you ask some (who have messaged me off thread) is poor(to take the swearwords & racism out)
I concur. As for being in two minds, I cant really help you there. Its something everyone has to weigh up pros & cons, and safety implications before they decide which way to fall.
I will still continue to provide my best service to anyone, be them changing, not changing or monitoring, to the best of abilities.
which if you ask some (who have messaged me off thread) is poor(to take the swearwords & racism out)
