Qantas Employee Engagement
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Kellykelpie:
The alternative is demotions and redundancies. Do you not understand that?
Maybe that is what they should have done. At least that would have taught guys like you to appreciate what you've got rather than whinge about what might have been.
Yeah right! Blank - Reserve - Blank - Reserve
Maybe that is what they should have done. At least that would have taught guys like you to appreciate what you've got rather than whinge about what might have been.
Longhaul seniority and the Longhaul bidding system are only factors that exaggerate the lack of engagement felt by Qantas pilots.
A complete overhaul of these two systems would have very little effect on the level of engagement felt by those devoid of enthusiasm for the company. Afterall, if the rate at which pilots retire/depart is matched by the rate at which flying disappears from longhaul, there will be no promotion and coupled with senior management policy towards staff, very little incentive to "value-add", regardless of the system used to allocate the flying.
A complete overhaul of these two systems would have very little effect on the level of engagement felt by those devoid of enthusiasm for the company. Afterall, if the rate at which pilots retire/depart is matched by the rate at which flying disappears from longhaul, there will be no promotion and coupled with senior management policy towards staff, very little incentive to "value-add", regardless of the system used to allocate the flying.
Wombat watcher,
I was commenting on somebody's suggestion that one disincentive to taking a Qantas command was that "they might have to work for a living". My comment was in response to that remark, not in reference to any redundancies. Do you understand that?
C441, you make a valid point. There is no incentive for "discretionary effort" while there is a lack of opportunity, regardless of the system. However, the system in place amplifies any stagnation - blankline holders "exist" to provide pattern line a certain lifestyle...
I was commenting on somebody's suggestion that one disincentive to taking a Qantas command was that "they might have to work for a living". My comment was in response to that remark, not in reference to any redundancies. Do you understand that?
C441, you make a valid point. There is no incentive for "discretionary effort" while there is a lack of opportunity, regardless of the system. However, the system in place amplifies any stagnation - blankline holders "exist" to provide pattern line a certain lifestyle...
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Blank Lines
Blank lines and reserve lines rock!!
Why would you want to work when you don't have too? It is going to change eventually and all the current BLH/RLH will have to do some work, however, make hay while the sun shines. If you can't get your golf handicap into single figures at the moment there is something wrong with you......
Engaged, hell, this is the best job I’ve ever (never – because it is like I don’t) had!
tsalta
Why would you want to work when you don't have too? It is going to change eventually and all the current BLH/RLH will have to do some work, however, make hay while the sun shines. If you can't get your golf handicap into single figures at the moment there is something wrong with you......
Engaged, hell, this is the best job I’ve ever (never – because it is like I don’t) had!
tsalta
Nunc est bibendum
The flip side of tsalta's point of view is that there are some crew still bidding for the blank lines standbys, etc and cleaning up. I know of crew on 95+ hours for the month whilst others who only answer the phone when called sit at about 45.
It's something that I think the company should try and address and sort out via an EBA but great for those that want the extra cash and great for those that don't mind a few extra nights at home with the kids.
It's something that I think the company should try and address and sort out via an EBA but great for those that want the extra cash and great for those that don't mind a few extra nights at home with the kids.
Nunc est bibendum
Lol. On holidays, yes. Sadly, not in Europe. Happily, at home with the kids. Sadly, up late finishing some 'work' for my other hobby. Happy new year to you too.
case of the mysterious WW
Who could the enigma possibly be?
Lets see, the person would have to be someone with a pathalogical hatred of all things wooden. So much so that nothing else matters. Someone who has also exhibited a not so hidden distain for those junior.
Lets see, the person would have to be someone with a pathalogical hatred of all things wooden. So much so that nothing else matters. Someone who has also exhibited a not so hidden distain for those junior.
I would have gotten away with it too.... if only those pesky kids had kept their mouths shut!
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Red Flag
Inappropriate use of Employee Engagement Benchmark Data - Some of the more well established Employee Engagement survey companies will state that the most important part of post survey follow up is related to comparison of internal survey data to numerous external benchmarks. This seems to have rubbed off onto internal sponsors who demand very specific benchmarks, being unaware that they are diluting the accuracy of their analysis. Some research analysts claim that the standard comparisons by industry sector are flawed. Is it right to compare a Bentley employee to one from Vauxhall (GM) because they are in the same automotive sector? Concluded was that more information can be obtained by looking at the kind of organisation that employees were a part of (and its employee proposition), its stage in development, internal communication, its brand,motivation and culture.
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Keg, most of those cadets who went thru in the seventies, spent 20 years as S/Os (which beggers belief) 10 years as F/O's ( in general) and finally made it as boss cocky well into their forties, they were not happy chappies but decided to take the money, and why not. As many were mates from old flying school/ instructing days, I got very used to their whinging and sometimes envy of those who chose to go domestic. They saw themselves as perfectly capable pilots (and most were) who were treated like schoolboys,and mushrooms, by both management and some senior Captains, (QF had a few shockers) some got depression, some walked away, some just sat there and as I said before opted to take the money and amused themselves by starting their own business in some other sphere, to save themselves from going nuts. Hopefully this will not repeat itself, and any young pilot going in today may look forward to having a only limited time in shark patrol, before getting to the serious end of the stick. Happy new year Keg, injoy your family time.
Nunc est bibendum
teresa, with respect, your numbers are WAY off. If we utilise your figures, a former cadet in 1970 wasn't a Captain until 2000. Given that Pete B checked out as our youngest jet captain ever at aged 27 in 1992 (or was it '91) then you can see how wrong your figures are. Most of the guys you are talking about may have been S/Os for quite some time but by and large they were Captains in the 14-17 year mark. I don't think any one of them would have taken more than 20 years unless it was by choice.
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20 years as SO is absolutely wrong. The longest I ever heard of was 12, most were less and their time as FO was far less than the average.
Most of them then had the benefit of the introduction of preferential bidding, plus an extension of their flying careers way past the age of 55 that was initially envisaged. Couple that with the changes to super that the Howard Govt brought in and they have had a very good run indeed.
Most of them then had the benefit of the introduction of preferential bidding, plus an extension of their flying careers way past the age of 55 that was initially envisaged. Couple that with the changes to super that the Howard Govt brought in and they have had a very good run indeed.
12 yrs as an S/O only occurred to the few that left the airline to pursue other interests in the meantime AND stayed there once QF began recruiting again. In addition, most of those spent ~18 months as FO's prior to command.
Stagnation will happen during your career, and for those guys it happened then, and resolved VERY quickly thereafter.
I joined in '01, did not take the first available FO slot, and still only spent 18 months as an SO. I expect that my stagnation is occurring now as an FO, albeit a management induced stagnation for the most part.
20 years as an SO not by choice??? Must have failed FO training...
Stagnation will happen during your career, and for those guys it happened then, and resolved VERY quickly thereafter.
I joined in '01, did not take the first available FO slot, and still only spent 18 months as an SO. I expect that my stagnation is occurring now as an FO, albeit a management induced stagnation for the most part.
20 years as an SO not by choice??? Must have failed FO training...
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12 yrs as an S/O only occurred to the few that left the airline to pursue other interests
I seem to remember when I started some of the S/O's were so senior they basically had 2 1/2 stripes and could do some take offs and landings.True that it was at the end of the 707 era and with the 747 promotions have come faster but if they could have patience why can't you guys do the same.
Sorry I forgot this is the " I want it now" era.
Nunc est bibendum
RedT, the 'senior S/O' concept existed at least in the late 80s. Not sure about much before that. The 2 1/2 stripes denoted them as such and they had essentially completed F/O training (and could therefore do take offs, landings, etc) but were waiting for an actual vacancy. I recall of the time though that there were senior S/Os within four-ish years of joining so it wasn't like you had to hang around too long to be one.
It was the introduction of the 747 that slowed promotion right down. It wasn't until the early '80s when QF started expanding rapidly that those 12 year S/Os went from S/O to Captain in under four years.
It was the introduction of the 747 that slowed promotion right down. It wasn't until the early '80s when QF started expanding rapidly that those 12 year S/Os went from S/O to Captain in under four years.
Totally agree with Keg. The 2 1/2 stripes was for S/O's who had 5 years on-line or had completed F/O training (with the exception of EP's in F/O rank) and thus were "Landee" S/O's. The "Landee" concept was to allow for rapid airline expansion as these guys only had to complete the one day EP course and they became F/O's.
I know of one of the original cadets who elected to stay based in London for an extra 3 years as S/O instead of coming back to Oz for F/O training. On completion of his London basing, he completed F/O training and, 18 months later, he did his Command training. He then had 20 years in command before retiring. Generally, they all had long and distinguished careers.
I know of one of the original cadets who elected to stay based in London for an extra 3 years as S/O instead of coming back to Oz for F/O training. On completion of his London basing, he completed F/O training and, 18 months later, he did his Command training. He then had 20 years in command before retiring. Generally, they all had long and distinguished careers.