Richmond new Sydney airport?
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Richmond new Sydney airport?
From the SMH:
New airport set for take-off
MATT O'SULLIVAN
November 23, 2009
THE Rudd Government is expected to pave the way for the Richmond air force base to be opened up to commercial airline traffic when it releases its long-awaited aviation white paper next month.
As part of the revamp of aviation policy, the blueprint will renew the search for a permanent site for a second Sydney airport after 63 years of political wrangling.
The Richmond RAAF base is expected to be announced as a temporary solution while the Government intensifies its search for a permanent location.
The white paper is expected to highlight the long-term need for a second airport north of the Sydney basin but closer than Newcastle. The Williamtown RAAF base has been touted as a possible site.
The development of Richmond would take pressure off Sydney Airport, which had more than 3 million passengers last month for the first time despite a downturn in travel.
''The most obvious is Richmond, but that is not a long-term option,'' a well-placed source said.
The Board of Airline Representatives, on behalf of international airlines flying to and from Australia, said it would welcome Richmond as the site for a second Sydney airport.
''We don't believe that an airport outside the Sydney basin would be viable. It would just become a white elephant,'' the board's executive director, Warren Bennett, said.
The only way to make a second airport viable commercially would be to place it near a large population and have it serve both international and domestic passengers, he said. The cost of providing transport links to Richmond would also be cheaper than sites such as Williamtown, which would need a high-speed rail link to Sydney.
Richmond is capable of handling most long-haul aircraft and would suit low-cost airlines such as Jetstar and the Singapore Airlines-backed Tiger Airways.
But any use of Richmond by commercial aircraft, even on an interim basis, would face staunch opposition in the area. Hawkesbury Council said in a response to the aviation green paper that it would have ''an unacceptable impact on the community''.
It is understood support is building within Labor for an airport inland from the Central Coast. The party's policy is for a second airport to be sited outside the Sydney basin.
The federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, has not previously ruled Richmond in or out as a site for a second airport but has struck Blacktown Airport and Badgerys Creek off the list.
A spokesman for the minister said the white paper would most likely be released next month. He would not comment on the use of Richmond as a stop-gap measure but said the blueprint would address the needs for additional airport capacity and the future of Badgerys Creek.
The State Government backed a second airport in the Sydney basin in its response to the aviation green paper, a U-turn on its previous preference for the Williamtown RAAF base at Newcastle. The change of heart was due to the cost of a high-speed rail link.
New airport set for take-off
MATT O'SULLIVAN
November 23, 2009
THE Rudd Government is expected to pave the way for the Richmond air force base to be opened up to commercial airline traffic when it releases its long-awaited aviation white paper next month.
As part of the revamp of aviation policy, the blueprint will renew the search for a permanent site for a second Sydney airport after 63 years of political wrangling.
The Richmond RAAF base is expected to be announced as a temporary solution while the Government intensifies its search for a permanent location.
The white paper is expected to highlight the long-term need for a second airport north of the Sydney basin but closer than Newcastle. The Williamtown RAAF base has been touted as a possible site.
The development of Richmond would take pressure off Sydney Airport, which had more than 3 million passengers last month for the first time despite a downturn in travel.
''The most obvious is Richmond, but that is not a long-term option,'' a well-placed source said.
The Board of Airline Representatives, on behalf of international airlines flying to and from Australia, said it would welcome Richmond as the site for a second Sydney airport.
''We don't believe that an airport outside the Sydney basin would be viable. It would just become a white elephant,'' the board's executive director, Warren Bennett, said.
The only way to make a second airport viable commercially would be to place it near a large population and have it serve both international and domestic passengers, he said. The cost of providing transport links to Richmond would also be cheaper than sites such as Williamtown, which would need a high-speed rail link to Sydney.
Richmond is capable of handling most long-haul aircraft and would suit low-cost airlines such as Jetstar and the Singapore Airlines-backed Tiger Airways.
But any use of Richmond by commercial aircraft, even on an interim basis, would face staunch opposition in the area. Hawkesbury Council said in a response to the aviation green paper that it would have ''an unacceptable impact on the community''.
It is understood support is building within Labor for an airport inland from the Central Coast. The party's policy is for a second airport to be sited outside the Sydney basin.
The federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, has not previously ruled Richmond in or out as a site for a second airport but has struck Blacktown Airport and Badgerys Creek off the list.
A spokesman for the minister said the white paper would most likely be released next month. He would not comment on the use of Richmond as a stop-gap measure but said the blueprint would address the needs for additional airport capacity and the future of Badgerys Creek.
The State Government backed a second airport in the Sydney basin in its response to the aviation green paper, a U-turn on its previous preference for the Williamtown RAAF base at Newcastle. The change of heart was due to the cost of a high-speed rail link.
Nunc est bibendum
Hmmm. Lots of fog in winter, crappy infrastructure in terms of the last 20km of road from the M7 to the base, lack of space for expansion on the current runway config. This strikes me as a 'divert attention away from excessive debt, a stuffed stance on illegal non residents, a stuffed position on an ETS, and the fact that we have no other ideas of substance on aviation'. 
I am having trouble compreheding the following para; I think I know what was meant but can't be certain:
Why is Willy being touted when it is NOT netween Sydney and Newcastle?
I think what he means is:
"Williamtown RAAF base, located north of Newcastle, has been touted as a possible site but the white paper will highlight the need for a second airport between Newcastle and Sydney"
Kid journos these days 
The white paper is expected to highlight the long-term need for a second airport north of the Sydney basin but closer than Newcastle. The Williamtown RAAF base has been touted as a possible site.
Why is Willy being touted when it is NOT netween Sydney and Newcastle? I think what he means is:
"Williamtown RAAF base, located north of Newcastle, has been touted as a possible site but the white paper will highlight the need for a second airport between Newcastle and Sydney"
Kid journos these days
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Suitable for long haul? I think not. 7000 ft of runway causes all sorts of payload penalties for the USAF transient KC10s - likewise when the Pope visited in an Alitalia 777.
Short haul, yes - but then you need to realise that there is no infrastructure for RPT ops. Minimal ramp space left (unless they build) due to the transient mil aircraft, paint shop and deep level maintenance for P3s and C130s.
It will be like Sydney back in the impulse days, operating out of a makeshift hut.
We need a TGV-esque high speed train from Syd to Canberra - that's the solution (45 mins to 1 hour one way). Then use CBR as the alternative to Syd. But too much jinning around and no action has meant that now that is very unlikely.
Short haul, yes - but then you need to realise that there is no infrastructure for RPT ops. Minimal ramp space left (unless they build) due to the transient mil aircraft, paint shop and deep level maintenance for P3s and C130s.
It will be like Sydney back in the impulse days, operating out of a makeshift hut.
We need a TGV-esque high speed train from Syd to Canberra - that's the solution (45 mins to 1 hour one way). Then use CBR as the alternative to Syd. But too much jinning around and no action has meant that now that is very unlikely.
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I heard some clown - sorry, "spokesman" - for some "airline operators' group" say on the ABC this morning that Richmond was ideal and that it would be easy to extend the existing RW10/28.
Yeah, right. I'm sure the residents of Windsor and Richmond would be interested to see what those "easily implimented" plans to extend the runway would be.
I have to agree with the Mayor of Hawkesbury - if Richmond is made a temporary civil field, it'll be a very long 'temporary' period before a replacement is found.
Like not in in any of our lifetimes.
Yeah, right. I'm sure the residents of Windsor and Richmond would be interested to see what those "easily implimented" plans to extend the runway would be.
I have to agree with the Mayor of Hawkesbury - if Richmond is made a temporary civil field, it'll be a very long 'temporary' period before a replacement is found.
Like not in in any of our lifetimes.
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Sigh. Here we go again.....
As a long term resident of the general area and having flown out of and into Richmond for many years in a previous life, I find myself repeating exactly the same stuff I did when this was last touted. And the time before that. And the time before that. And the time before that.
Keg was spot on. Sydney prob30 = Richmond pea soup. The runway and approach config is very limited by both terrain, and the townships. You could, in a moment of madness, build a longer runway towards the south, which will be great fun for all in the roaring westerlies which dominate many parts of the year (the last one blew my chimney flu cap off!). The other option would be to frog-march the 6-7000 residents of Richmond somewhere and demolish the township, as the threshold of 10 is a stone's throw from the built up area. Or you could have much fun knocking down the Sebel Hotel, digging up the golf course, and terra-forming Rickaby's Creek to get more length to the east (which will impress the hell out of the residents of historic Windsor township).
My other thought was go to the north. Easy. Just fill in the lowlands between the base and the Hawkesbury river with 68 ft of dirt. And you still get to join in the fun with the roaring westerlies, because after all, aren't all long main runways built perpendicular to the local prevailing wind?
Yes, a 747 could takeoff from here............with enough fuel to make BNE.
Anyway, I don't expect bureaucrats will heed any of that.
As a long term resident of the general area and having flown out of and into Richmond for many years in a previous life, I find myself repeating exactly the same stuff I did when this was last touted. And the time before that. And the time before that. And the time before that.
Keg was spot on. Sydney prob30 = Richmond pea soup. The runway and approach config is very limited by both terrain, and the townships. You could, in a moment of madness, build a longer runway towards the south, which will be great fun for all in the roaring westerlies which dominate many parts of the year (the last one blew my chimney flu cap off!). The other option would be to frog-march the 6-7000 residents of Richmond somewhere and demolish the township, as the threshold of 10 is a stone's throw from the built up area. Or you could have much fun knocking down the Sebel Hotel, digging up the golf course, and terra-forming Rickaby's Creek to get more length to the east (which will impress the hell out of the residents of historic Windsor township).
My other thought was go to the north. Easy. Just fill in the lowlands between the base and the Hawkesbury river with 68 ft of dirt. And you still get to join in the fun with the roaring westerlies, because after all, aren't all long main runways built perpendicular to the local prevailing wind?
Richmond is capable of handling most long-haul aircraft
Anyway, I don't expect bureaucrats will heed any of that.
Last edited by DutchRoll; 23rd Nov 2009 at 02:44.
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It is not Sydney that needs a second airport but the state of New South Wales! Newcastle Williamtown and Canberra should be developed as alternate entry points to the state!
what is wrong with incoming tourists via V australia/Jetstar Int arriving in Newcastle/Canberra as their first port of call, am i missing some thing? do all roads have to lead to Rome....
what is wrong with incoming tourists via V australia/Jetstar Int arriving in Newcastle/Canberra as their first port of call, am i missing some thing? do all roads have to lead to Rome....
what is wrong with incoming tourists via V australia/Jetstar Int arriving in Newcastle/Canberra as their first port of call, am i missing some thing? do all roads have to lead to Rome
RIC might create a market for Western Sydney to MEL/BNE/OOL/MCY and there could also be a market for some international guys if they wanted to fly at curfew busting times or the ultra low cost international folk but other than that I can't see to many operators heading out there.
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It is not Sydney that needs a second airport but the state of New South Wales!
Alice Springs comes to mind.
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More, Australia needs a major international airport that can "hub" to all other airports and take the load off the existing.
Alice Springs comes to mind.
Alice Springs comes to mind.
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All talk, no action
This topic gets thrashed out every few years!
Wont happen because of all the same reasons as before (MAC, NIMBY's, "How can it be outside of Sydney?", etc)
So Sydney will just become more crowded and expensive, and more INTL carriers will do more flights to BNE, MEL (no curfew in MEL), and even ADL.
Wont happen because of all the same reasons as before (MAC, NIMBY's, "How can it be outside of Sydney?", etc)
So Sydney will just become more crowded and expensive, and more INTL carriers will do more flights to BNE, MEL (no curfew in MEL), and even ADL.
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As for curfew, Richmond has a curfew which can only be broken under certain circumstances by mil aircraft. Not as strict as Sydney's, but I am sure once civil aircraft moved there that someone would change the legislation and make the fine = YSSY.
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The answer, as always, is to either build a new airport in open land 100-200km from Sydney and link with high speed rail, or use Canberra and link with high speed rail. Not use an existing and in-use GA or military airport in the Sydney basin. And yet every few years the same useless suggestions come up from the same crew.
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They could - stress could - take a leaf out of the Japanese book and build a new runway on an artificial island in Botany Bay pointing out through the entrance to Botany Bay.
This would allow them to:
(a) use the existing transport system and 90% of the airfield infrastructure of KSA whilst giving them enough space to build new world class passenger terminals,
(b) be far enough removed from built up areas immediately to the north to allow 24 hour a day operation, (yeah, right!)
(c) probably end up considerably cheaper than any other option, and
(d) not suffer quite as many of the inevitable noise complaints and demands for curfews ANY other option will certainly attract within 12 months of the airport being built, wherever it will be built.
Unfortunately, I have it on good authority that any such artificial island would interfere with the annual migratory path from Kurnell to Brighton of the rare as bat**** Botany Bay three-toed sulphur crested perinewt, so it'll never happen.
This would allow them to:
(a) use the existing transport system and 90% of the airfield infrastructure of KSA whilst giving them enough space to build new world class passenger terminals,
(b) be far enough removed from built up areas immediately to the north to allow 24 hour a day operation, (yeah, right!)
(c) probably end up considerably cheaper than any other option, and
(d) not suffer quite as many of the inevitable noise complaints and demands for curfews ANY other option will certainly attract within 12 months of the airport being built, wherever it will be built.
Unfortunately, I have it on good authority that any such artificial island would interfere with the annual migratory path from Kurnell to Brighton of the rare as bat**** Botany Bay three-toed sulphur crested perinewt, so it'll never happen.
