Merged: JetStarization Of Qantas Finished
"He also said there would be no more replacement of Qantas routes with Jetstar flights."
I recall a few years back in Bali having a typical holiday chat by the pool, 'where are you from' etc and a few people asking 'who did you fly up with' for us, that was Australian and we thought they were very good. Anyway a number of people who flew Garuda said that they flew Garuda simply because, they have 1st and J class and since Qantas stopped flying here we will only fly Garuda.
My former employer had a call centre on the Gold Coast and staff only ever flew SYD-OOL-SYD on QF. Once QF pulled out we simply started to go Virgin, it always amazed me the number of people on the Virgin flights with QF FF and Qantas Club tags on their bags. Our CEO actually wrote to Dixon to say that there are plenty of business people who fly to OOL, he actually told a few people about the arrogant response from QF, it basically said that 'our research shows that the majority of travel to OOL is leisure.
My point: there was and still are plenty of people flying to DPS who are willing to pay J class fares and indeed, full service fares and I'd say, happier to fly a QF rather than a Garuda, so where's the analysis.
In regards to OOL yes, plenty of leisure travel but what about MICE (meetings, incentives, conferences and events) related travel? plenty of that and that is typically paid not by the pax but by the employers - so why wouldn't they have say, a few QF early morning and late afternoon? rather than just gifting this travel to Virgin.
Then there's the Japan flights and that has been touched upon plenty of times. In regards to HNL, this is one destination where the 2 compete, I wonder who has the better loadings? forget operating costs, simply the better loadings each week, month, quarter? that may be interesting.
Next it will be NAN - people seem to be happy paying the advertised QF fare and fly FJ .
Joyce states that there would be no more replacement of Qantas routes with Jetstar flights, but indirectly, isn't this is what he's doing with the NAN services if Jet* fly there? What's it costing Qantas to fly there? What's the saving by flying there with JetStar?
I recall a few years back in Bali having a typical holiday chat by the pool, 'where are you from' etc and a few people asking 'who did you fly up with' for us, that was Australian and we thought they were very good. Anyway a number of people who flew Garuda said that they flew Garuda simply because, they have 1st and J class and since Qantas stopped flying here we will only fly Garuda.
My former employer had a call centre on the Gold Coast and staff only ever flew SYD-OOL-SYD on QF. Once QF pulled out we simply started to go Virgin, it always amazed me the number of people on the Virgin flights with QF FF and Qantas Club tags on their bags. Our CEO actually wrote to Dixon to say that there are plenty of business people who fly to OOL, he actually told a few people about the arrogant response from QF, it basically said that 'our research shows that the majority of travel to OOL is leisure.
My point: there was and still are plenty of people flying to DPS who are willing to pay J class fares and indeed, full service fares and I'd say, happier to fly a QF rather than a Garuda, so where's the analysis.
In regards to OOL yes, plenty of leisure travel but what about MICE (meetings, incentives, conferences and events) related travel? plenty of that and that is typically paid not by the pax but by the employers - so why wouldn't they have say, a few QF early morning and late afternoon? rather than just gifting this travel to Virgin.
Then there's the Japan flights and that has been touched upon plenty of times. In regards to HNL, this is one destination where the 2 compete, I wonder who has the better loadings? forget operating costs, simply the better loadings each week, month, quarter? that may be interesting.
Next it will be NAN - people seem to be happy paying the advertised QF fare and fly FJ .
Joyce states that there would be no more replacement of Qantas routes with Jetstar flights, but indirectly, isn't this is what he's doing with the NAN services if Jet* fly there? What's it costing Qantas to fly there? What's the saving by flying there with JetStar?
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Next it will be NAN - people seem to be happy paying the advertised QF fare and fly FJ .
Joyce states that there would be no more replacement of Qantas routes with Jetstar flights, but indirectly, isn't this is what he's doing with the NAN services if Jet* fly there?
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One wonders how any Airline would know if "Premium" demand is improving.....when a "Pemium" product is not being offered....I cant Immagine too many well heeled travellers approaching Jet* or whoever and offering to pay more money for what is currently on offer....so is this just Fob Off Rhetoric 
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Mstr Caution...
You still have not explained why QF was charging more than J* for the same ticket on the same flight....
Is that not another way of creative accounting?
You still have not explained why QF was charging more than J* for the same ticket on the same flight....
Is that not another way of creative accounting?
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Lowerlobe,
my understanding is JQ website only sells bare bones fares...but when done by QF it is often a step up in fare level...probably to cover the admin/tktg costs which are then incurred.
JQ website bookings have no tkt issued...its just a credit card debit. QF assumes some responsibility and therefore cost/risk when pax book on QF codeshare flight with them.
Cheers
my understanding is JQ website only sells bare bones fares...but when done by QF it is often a step up in fare level...probably to cover the admin/tktg costs which are then incurred.
JQ website bookings have no tkt issued...its just a credit card debit. QF assumes some responsibility and therefore cost/risk when pax book on QF codeshare flight with them.
Cheers
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Lowerlobe,
Without looking at the conditions associated with the ticket, I would guess the QF ticketed passenger may have some flexibility associated with the ticket.
As for accounting practices between QF & J*, that's slowly getting sorted out.
Without looking at the conditions associated with the ticket, I would guess the QF ticketed passenger may have some flexibility associated with the ticket.
As for accounting practices between QF & J*, that's slowly getting sorted out.
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TMAK & Mstr Caution...
Nope,as far as I know it's the same type of ticket no difference in flexibility (no checked in baggage just carry with normal weight restrictions),same aircraft,same day,same flight etc...but with the exception that if you purchased a QF ticket on that J* flight and pay with a credit card you would be charged $7.70 extra as well as the extra price for the effort of buying a QF ticket....
I would have thought that for the extra you would get a free cuppa but as far as I know ...Nope....
If this is not the case and you get something extra for the extra bucks then someone let me know....
By the way it ended up being cheaper on Virgin Blue than either QF and J* ....
Nope,as far as I know it's the same type of ticket no difference in flexibility (no checked in baggage just carry with normal weight restrictions),same aircraft,same day,same flight etc...but with the exception that if you purchased a QF ticket on that J* flight and pay with a credit card you would be charged $7.70 extra as well as the extra price for the effort of buying a QF ticket....
I would have thought that for the extra you would get a free cuppa but as far as I know ...Nope....
If this is not the case and you get something extra for the extra bucks then someone let me know....
By the way it ended up being cheaper on Virgin Blue than either QF and J* ....
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It seems that QF senior management also refer to the term JetStarization – see bold below.
But the premise in the article below seems to be that premium passengers do their own check in and (by definition of being a premium passenger) pay extra for it. That’s cute!
But the premise in the article below seems to be that premium passengers do their own check in and (by definition of being a premium passenger) pay extra for it. That’s cute!
Qantas unveils vision for 'the airport of the future'
ANDREW HEASLEY
The Age November 11, 2009
IN A world first, Australian domestic air travellers will soon check themselves and their bags in electronically rather than face the long queues at manned counters, under a radical vision for the airport of the future unveiled by Qantas yesterday.
It could even mean the bane of the air traveller – lost luggage – might be relegated to just a bad memory if the airline’s faith in smart cards and computer-chipped luggage tags is realised.
In unveiling the plan, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said its domestic passengers have "told us that airport check-in today is nothing less than a major point of pain".
"Check-in takes too long. It causes too much stress. Our customers know what they want: speed and ease," he said.
Qantas’ self-service system promises to process passengers much faster than the current system, when queues at peak hours regularly stretch back through the departure concourse.
"Our plan is to halve the check-in time – or better," Mr Joyce said.
The system, a world first, is being developed between the airline and technology giant, IBM at a cost of $40 million to its first phase of implementation.
Only frequent flyers rated with "silver" status or above will be issued with the new smart identity cards and chip-embedded baggage tags to access the system. It will be a re-issued frequent flyer card with an embedded chip.
Those passengers will be able to swipe their card across check-in readers planted across the terminal concourse and drop their bags directly on new baggage carousels.
The smart chip in the identity card will have all your details and will match you and your bags up with your flight details, avoiding the need for a paper boarding pass and the sticky barcode luggage tag.
Passengers can then go through what Mr Joyce described as a streamlined security process, which he described as another "bottleneck" and proceed to board.
You will still have to go through hand luggage security screening, including removing laptops from bags, before boarding.
Mr Joyce announced an ambitious timetable for its introduction — in as little as seven months' time.
It is scheduled to be trialled at Perth airport in mid-2010. The Sydney Qantas terminal will install the system at the end of next year and in Melbourne in early 2011, and other major airports during 2011.
Terminals’ floor-plans need to be remodelled to accommodate the open-plan field of card readers and new baggage drop carousels.
In a different but concurrent project, Qantas is looking at ways to speed up baggage processing at disembarkation.
So, is this the latest example of technology replacing people?
Mr Joyce said check-in staff would be on hand in service kiosks and at baggage carousels to help passengers with any problems they may encounter, including overweight bags, which would be weighed when they were placed on the belts.
"We’re making sure that we utilise the staff for a customer service focus. Staff will be hosting the process all the way through," he said.
Mr Joyce said the new high-tech approach fitted with Qantas’ positioning as a "premium" airline.
"Time is the new luxury," he said.
"People have suggested that Qantas is going to be Jetstar-ised.
"Far from downgrading our commitment to the premium status of Qantas, we are reinforcing it."
ANDREW HEASLEY
The Age November 11, 2009
IN A world first, Australian domestic air travellers will soon check themselves and their bags in electronically rather than face the long queues at manned counters, under a radical vision for the airport of the future unveiled by Qantas yesterday.
It could even mean the bane of the air traveller – lost luggage – might be relegated to just a bad memory if the airline’s faith in smart cards and computer-chipped luggage tags is realised.
In unveiling the plan, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said its domestic passengers have "told us that airport check-in today is nothing less than a major point of pain".
"Check-in takes too long. It causes too much stress. Our customers know what they want: speed and ease," he said.
Qantas’ self-service system promises to process passengers much faster than the current system, when queues at peak hours regularly stretch back through the departure concourse.
"Our plan is to halve the check-in time – or better," Mr Joyce said.
The system, a world first, is being developed between the airline and technology giant, IBM at a cost of $40 million to its first phase of implementation.
Only frequent flyers rated with "silver" status or above will be issued with the new smart identity cards and chip-embedded baggage tags to access the system. It will be a re-issued frequent flyer card with an embedded chip.
Those passengers will be able to swipe their card across check-in readers planted across the terminal concourse and drop their bags directly on new baggage carousels.
The smart chip in the identity card will have all your details and will match you and your bags up with your flight details, avoiding the need for a paper boarding pass and the sticky barcode luggage tag.
Passengers can then go through what Mr Joyce described as a streamlined security process, which he described as another "bottleneck" and proceed to board.
You will still have to go through hand luggage security screening, including removing laptops from bags, before boarding.
Mr Joyce announced an ambitious timetable for its introduction — in as little as seven months' time.
It is scheduled to be trialled at Perth airport in mid-2010. The Sydney Qantas terminal will install the system at the end of next year and in Melbourne in early 2011, and other major airports during 2011.
Terminals’ floor-plans need to be remodelled to accommodate the open-plan field of card readers and new baggage drop carousels.
In a different but concurrent project, Qantas is looking at ways to speed up baggage processing at disembarkation.
So, is this the latest example of technology replacing people?
Mr Joyce said check-in staff would be on hand in service kiosks and at baggage carousels to help passengers with any problems they may encounter, including overweight bags, which would be weighed when they were placed on the belts.
"We’re making sure that we utilise the staff for a customer service focus. Staff will be hosting the process all the way through," he said.
Mr Joyce said the new high-tech approach fitted with Qantas’ positioning as a "premium" airline.
"Time is the new luxury," he said.
"People have suggested that Qantas is going to be Jetstar-ised.
"Far from downgrading our commitment to the premium status of Qantas, we are reinforcing it."
No bounce in business class, says QantasMATT O'SULLIVAN
November 12, 2009 .
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ALAN JOYCE, the Qantas chief executive, admits the airline is yet to see a rise in the lucrative business traffic despite an improvement in general economic conditions.
A continuation of the ''very weak'' demand for first and business classes, particularly on international routes where yields are still more than 20 per cent lower than last year, has left the airline more reliant on its domestic network.
Mr Joyce said flights across its network were near full but weak yields would ''take some time to wash out of the system because we … still have a lot of cheap air fares in our inventory''.
''Domestically we are seeing the air fares increase put in place four weeks ago stick … and we are seeing an improvement in average air fares,'' he said yesterday. ''[But] we are not seeing an improvement in business traffic - that is still some time off. Our position … is being strengthened by the leisure market, not the business market.''
First- and business-class flyers make up less than 10 per cent of a Qantas aircraft's total occupancy, yet they contribute about 40 per cent of revenue.
Airline executives worldwide have become more confident in recent months about the outlook for travel after almost a year of substantial falls in demand.
Singapore Airlines suffered its second consecutive quarterly loss on Tuesday but said demand for air travel was ''gradually recovering''. However, yields were unlikely to return to pre-crisis levels within the next six months.
Yesterday Qantas announced an overhaul of its domestic airport check-ins, beginning in Perth in the middle of next year at a cost of about $40 million. The eventual upgrade of other domestic check-ins is expected to total $200 million.
Mr Joyce was coy about whether the upgrades, brought about by the introduction of better technology, would cost more jobs at the airline.
Meanwhile, Qantas's talks with the Fijian Government about selling its 46 per cent stake in Air Pacific has dragged into its third month without any sign of resolution.
well, if you treat your premium pax like they have, and serve up a sh&t alternative product, what the hell do you expect?
November 12, 2009 .
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Join us at our Free InvestmentSeminar. Over 45,000 others have.
www.SITM.com.au/RegisterOnline
ALAN JOYCE, the Qantas chief executive, admits the airline is yet to see a rise in the lucrative business traffic despite an improvement in general economic conditions.
A continuation of the ''very weak'' demand for first and business classes, particularly on international routes where yields are still more than 20 per cent lower than last year, has left the airline more reliant on its domestic network.
Mr Joyce said flights across its network were near full but weak yields would ''take some time to wash out of the system because we … still have a lot of cheap air fares in our inventory''.
''Domestically we are seeing the air fares increase put in place four weeks ago stick … and we are seeing an improvement in average air fares,'' he said yesterday. ''[But] we are not seeing an improvement in business traffic - that is still some time off. Our position … is being strengthened by the leisure market, not the business market.''
First- and business-class flyers make up less than 10 per cent of a Qantas aircraft's total occupancy, yet they contribute about 40 per cent of revenue.
Airline executives worldwide have become more confident in recent months about the outlook for travel after almost a year of substantial falls in demand.
Singapore Airlines suffered its second consecutive quarterly loss on Tuesday but said demand for air travel was ''gradually recovering''. However, yields were unlikely to return to pre-crisis levels within the next six months.
Yesterday Qantas announced an overhaul of its domestic airport check-ins, beginning in Perth in the middle of next year at a cost of about $40 million. The eventual upgrade of other domestic check-ins is expected to total $200 million.
Mr Joyce was coy about whether the upgrades, brought about by the introduction of better technology, would cost more jobs at the airline.
Meanwhile, Qantas's talks with the Fijian Government about selling its 46 per cent stake in Air Pacific has dragged into its third month without any sign of resolution.
well, if you treat your premium pax like they have, and serve up a sh&t alternative product, what the hell do you expect?
Heard at the last qf board meeting........."WTF do you mean they don't want to fly with us! We have the best two branded strategy in the world."
Onya jetstar!
Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Singapore Airlines Ltd., which reported its first back-to-back quarterly loss in at least seven years, said it may reintroduce some capacity after an improvement in travel demand.
“There are clear signs from the pattern of forward bookings that have been coming in, that there is not just a narrowing of the drop, but some real growth starting to come in,” Chief Executive Officer Chew Choon Seng told reporters in Singapore today. The airline, which gets about 40 percent of its revenue from premium travelers, is seeing a “definite” pickup in business class traffic, he said.
Onya jetstar!
Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Singapore Airlines Ltd., which reported its first back-to-back quarterly loss in at least seven years, said it may reintroduce some capacity after an improvement in travel demand.
“There are clear signs from the pattern of forward bookings that have been coming in, that there is not just a narrowing of the drop, but some real growth starting to come in,” Chief Executive Officer Chew Choon Seng told reporters in Singapore today. The airline, which gets about 40 percent of its revenue from premium travelers, is seeing a “definite” pickup in business class traffic, he said.
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Ok, so Dixon might've looked clever by 'Jetsarring' going into the recession/crises/whatever, but how is the group positioned now, when things look like improving?
If, instead say, Dixon had continued with QF only, but re-classing business seats as economy- as demand required (as I have seen done)- / deep discounting the seats down the back etc. {the cost of starting a new airline must be enormous, and that money could've been used to offset discounting etc} then the group would be far better positioned to take advantage of any upswing.
It just doesn't seem very nimble, going down the permanent road of creating a whole new airline to weather temporary market conditions. Low cost has it's place- but there will always be another one along a bit lower, soon. IMHO, a mistake to even wrestle that pig. Some strange (to me) decisions have been made, and then "spun" to look clever.
If the whole thing was purely an industrial play, then the shareholders should lynch him (which they should anyway).
If, instead say, Dixon had continued with QF only, but re-classing business seats as economy- as demand required (as I have seen done)- / deep discounting the seats down the back etc. {the cost of starting a new airline must be enormous, and that money could've been used to offset discounting etc} then the group would be far better positioned to take advantage of any upswing.
It just doesn't seem very nimble, going down the permanent road of creating a whole new airline to weather temporary market conditions. Low cost has it's place- but there will always be another one along a bit lower, soon. IMHO, a mistake to even wrestle that pig. Some strange (to me) decisions have been made, and then "spun" to look clever.
If the whole thing was purely an industrial play, then the shareholders should lynch him (which they should anyway).
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Now going to try Jetstaration of JAL.
News item contains the details : Qantas offer to help JAL | Herald Sun
News item contains the details : Qantas offer to help JAL | Herald Sun
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IN A world first, Australian domestic air travellers will soon check themselves and their bags in electronically rather than face the long queues at manned counters
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Jetstarisation of QANTAS continues....
Well I thought Joyce said no more jetstarisation....and maybe he meant it.
But I just heard the Perth Narita run is having pax with QF tickets changed to Onestar - apparently travel agents havent been advised yet).
The QF website appears to have no more PErth Narita flights from May onwards.
Hopefully it isnt true.
Anyone know more?
Eastwest...?
But I just heard the Perth Narita run is having pax with QF tickets changed to Onestar - apparently travel agents havent been advised yet).
The QF website appears to have no more PErth Narita flights from May onwards.
Hopefully it isnt true.
Anyone know more?
Eastwest...?
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The Hill,
Agreed - I was checking in for a NZ domestic at little ol' Christchurch just about when you wrote your post; all very simple, if you can fly an ATM then you could fly this process. One chap at the belt to weigh it and help lift it on and a couple of staff floating round to help those for whom an ATM remains a challenge.
There was no need to have any costly smart-chip-card whizz-bangery, I used a PNR and my LH FF number and it all worked 100% - didn't need to be a NZ FF.
So I suspect the spin here would be along the lines of "Well, yes, our cousins in NZ have been doing this for a year or so now, but we're better because we'll be doing it with smart cards and we won't have ANY staff around to help punters!"
Or else the 'world first' comment is just a reflection of how Aus views NZ...?
Slight thread drift, but now we see how the rest of the business community views Jetstar:
We're not the Jetstar of banking: Westpac
dont think so, Air NZ has been doing this for 12 months now
There was no need to have any costly smart-chip-card whizz-bangery, I used a PNR and my LH FF number and it all worked 100% - didn't need to be a NZ FF.
So I suspect the spin here would be along the lines of "Well, yes, our cousins in NZ have been doing this for a year or so now, but we're better because we'll be doing it with smart cards and we won't have ANY staff around to help punters!"
Or else the 'world first' comment is just a reflection of how Aus views NZ...?
Slight thread drift, but now we see how the rest of the business community views Jetstar:
We're not the Jetstar of banking: Westpac
Last edited by Taildragger67; 7th Dec 2009 at 08:15.
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Anyone else heard the rumour that Qantas mainline will only get 8 A380's.
After that ?? Jetstar?
I've been trying to find the video of Dixon and Jackson signing the papers up in Toulouse for the BlunderBus .There you will see on the feature wall behind them ,all the launch customers for the A380. Guess what ,JetStar's up there???
After that ?? Jetstar?
I've been trying to find the video of Dixon and Jackson signing the papers up in Toulouse for the BlunderBus .There you will see on the feature wall behind them ,all the launch customers for the A380. Guess what ,JetStar's up there???
