Jetstar A330 Load Planning
Evertonian
load plan which is then checked by the crew who then make ammenments and then print the final copy.
Buster. What are you on about. You go down underneath and check the containers are AKE PMX etc. Come on sunshine this aint no clapped out Chieften on a Horn Island charter.
...but that's okay, I was only ever licensed on a few types, such as B727, B737, B747-100/200/300/400/Combi/Freighter, B777, A310, A320, A340, A330, Dc-10/10/30, LD-11/11F, F28, B767-200/300...Amateur??? You'd know...
Buster:--
You were justifying JQ using MNL by comparing it to CX.
You can't compare JQ "outsourcing" it's loadsheets to MNL with CX sending it's loadsheets from it's HOME BASE in HKG.
Our own trained expert guys do it from our home base HQ, not some foreign guys in another third party country.
I'd hate to think how bad the service would be if CX "outsourced" it's load control to MNL!! I've been through MNL hundreds of times and nothing, repeat nothing inspires confidence in me there at all. Sorry I to be blunt but it's the gods own truth. The number of stuff ups and incidents there over basic stuff is amazing. ( ATC, Engineering, Ground staff, etc etc )
I can't see any particular problem with this. CX send Loadsheets via ACARS from HKG
You can't compare JQ "outsourcing" it's loadsheets to MNL with CX sending it's loadsheets from it's HOME BASE in HKG.
Our own trained expert guys do it from our home base HQ, not some foreign guys in another third party country.
I'd hate to think how bad the service would be if CX "outsourced" it's load control to MNL!! I've been through MNL hundreds of times and nothing, repeat nothing inspires confidence in me there at all. Sorry I to be blunt but it's the gods own truth. The number of stuff ups and incidents there over basic stuff is amazing. ( ATC, Engineering, Ground staff, etc etc )
Could it be possible - even only a little bit - that there are people overseas who can do some parts of airline operations just as competently as Australians at less cost? Cost doesn't always equal quality when you look at the world market.
However it is worth considering how many people the major Australian airlines killed in the last 30 years? And yes I conceed that there are many factors that work in our favour however we have managed to keep a very safe operating environment.
It is also worth pointing out that a QF flight crew saved the day with a problem in a 737 that has resulted in two fatal accidents in overseas airlines. And I would imagine any Australian flight crew would have easily handled the same problem. For the QF boys it was a non event yet for some foreign airlines this same problem ended in fatal accidents.
The Australian psyche fits very well into Aviation and it is a very safe. The only thing is that the idiots who run airlines don't actually realise this and think that it is better to sell everything off to the cheapest bidder.
The question I ask is do want the standard that the rest of world has?
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John Tulla
Totally correct post, although I have never used a trim wheel but staff who worked for me have with NAC.
There is no substitute for the load and trim being produced at the location of the aeroplane in question. I signed them out, and I watched them fly.
Last second advice from tarmac staff can prevent a potential disaster.
Taking control from those at local airports can also provide more negatives on a marketing base than any benefit it provides.
We use to be able to close off F27 52 seaters, F28 72 seaters and 96 seat BAe146-300s at 8 minutes to rollout and still get them out on or ahead of time. That was with manual load and trim and seat allocation.
The more technology you get, the slower you are.
However, I will say the guys at DPO these days do a brilliant job considering the neanderthal system they have pressed upon them.
Best all
EWL
Totally correct post, although I have never used a trim wheel but staff who worked for me have with NAC.
There is no substitute for the load and trim being produced at the location of the aeroplane in question. I signed them out, and I watched them fly.
Last second advice from tarmac staff can prevent a potential disaster.
Taking control from those at local airports can also provide more negatives on a marketing base than any benefit it provides.
We use to be able to close off F27 52 seaters, F28 72 seaters and 96 seat BAe146-300s at 8 minutes to rollout and still get them out on or ahead of time. That was with manual load and trim and seat allocation.
The more technology you get, the slower you are.
However, I will say the guys at DPO these days do a brilliant job considering the neanderthal system they have pressed upon them.
Best all
EWL
Moderator
although I have never used a trim wheel
.. just a "circularly" drawn trimsheet, if that makes sense. The only downside is that the accuracy varies according to the radius for any given trimline. They are used in much the same manner as a conventional paper trimsheet (with a couple of style differences due to the circular format) .. in the hands of a proficient user ... greased lightning.
.. just a "circularly" drawn trimsheet, if that makes sense. The only downside is that the accuracy varies according to the radius for any given trimline. They are used in much the same manner as a conventional paper trimsheet (with a couple of style differences due to the circular format) .. in the hands of a proficient user ... greased lightning.
Evertonian
I'm justifying remote Loadsheets as a technological possibility, as evidenced by CX. I'm not endorsing remote loadsheets as I preferred to be on the ground watching & planning the load.
I have NFI about the current local qualifications in MNL, but I'm assuming that when CX used locals in the past, it turned out allright...
Trim wheel, or Prayer wheel as we called it, was used to great effect by Continental...pain in the arse converting to pounds all the time, but quite a simple & effective manual trim.
I have NFI about the current local qualifications in MNL, but I'm assuming that when CX used locals in the past, it turned out allright...
Trim wheel, or Prayer wheel as we called it, was used to great effect by Continental...pain in the arse converting to pounds all the time, but quite a simple & effective manual trim.
When Cx used the outports to generate their own loadsheets we had a lot more errors. Columbo was particular concern for us.
Now it's centralized we have a better product.
Seems to work ok:
Now it's centralized we have a better product.
Seems to work ok:
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It's a simple computer programme administered by anyone with an IQ above 100...get over it.
Not that dissimilar to a low cost airline with a star on the tail administered by a bunch of ex-Ansett hacks with an IQ nominally above/below 100..
Not that dissimilar to a low cost airline with a star on the tail administered by a bunch of ex-Ansett hacks with an IQ nominally above/below 100..
short flights long nights
Well for my two cents worth...no matter where we are in the world our load sheets are calculated and sent by ACARS from a "sandy" place, and it seems to work fine. Now, I have no idea of what happens between communications...what I mean is this
Anywhere in the World: ACARS comes from Sandy Place with Actual ZFW
Crew makes final fuel calculation and passes figures to local handling company
Anywhere in the World: ACARS comes with Final load sheet from Sandy Place
And it all seems to work fine
(but yes..I admit..the load sheet comes from the company..where ever we are...well at least I assume it does
)
Anywhere in the World: ACARS comes from Sandy Place with Actual ZFW
Crew makes final fuel calculation and passes figures to local handling company
Anywhere in the World: ACARS comes with Final load sheet from Sandy Place
And it all seems to work fine
(but yes..I admit..the load sheet comes from the company..where ever we are...well at least I assume it does
)
Thread Starter
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Quote: Now to think Jetstar have 5 dudes doing this for 12 or so flights a day. I very much doubt it. I am not sure of A3donkeys sources are but they seem a little suspect.
Captain Tune, I dont know who your sources are but logic will tell you that you need more than one load planner on a roster, therefore what I mean by 5 load planners is the entire department with 1 load planner working at anytime. Lets just see how our friends in MNL go I'm sure your sources can probably inform you come mid november lets just hope they are more reliable than of late.
Captain Tune, I dont know who your sources are but logic will tell you that you need more than one load planner on a roster, therefore what I mean by 5 load planners is the entire department with 1 load planner working at anytime. Lets just see how our friends in MNL go I'm sure your sources can probably inform you come mid november lets just hope they are more reliable than of late.
