Merged: QF 2008/2009 profit after tax $123 million
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
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Nomar & DD...I agree with you both..you both espouse valid points...I'll get crucified for this I know, but in another 10 years or so you'll again have a coalition gummint.....and then you'll be sprung with a set of industrial relations legislation that will make your eyes pop, as the Liberal National party set about punishing EVERYBODY who works for living in this country.
As a friend said to me the other day , it's not that the Coalition don't have any policies as such...it's more accurate to say they really don't want you to know what they are........
Wait until the Leprechaun has Gummint support to really screw you down to aerial bus drivers............
As a friend said to me the other day , it's not that the Coalition don't have any policies as such...it's more accurate to say they really don't want you to know what they are........
Wait until the Leprechaun has Gummint support to really screw you down to aerial bus drivers............
Join Date: Oct 2007
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The reality is the gravy train has run off the rails, probably never to return, the travelling public has changed, LCC rule, everything has changed, business people use the net to do business, they no longer have to travel, and you, boys and girls have to work out where it leaves you. Your unions will have no choice but to listen to the company, you people will have to face the reality that your pay will be brought into line sooner or later with the LCC's and if you think this is bulls$it, well fool you. As time goes on more pilots will head towards JQ if only to get a command in this century, instead of the next, and for QF cabin crew the future is very uncertain. as the airline becomes more "boutique" as JQ surges ahead. You might all howl with rage, but if your business produces socks at $1 a pair and you can produce the same product at 50 cents what are you going to do? Yes the seats could do with a bit more space, yes the food is purchased, but bearing in mind the food?????? QF have been churning out over the last few years, hardly justify the extra cost of a ticket. Ticket sales are no longer bought at travel agents as most people head towards the net, to do their own travel, most of the time, and the cheapest is always most attractive, even if it is with Loose Rivett Airlines, and this is having a huge affect on the aviation business, so all your whinging, all your complaints are going nowhere because you are now trying to operate in a world that is fast slipping away from your expectations, so you have no choice but to move with the future, accept the fact that it has changed, it will never return to the "good ol days" (that I enjoyed) and in all probability your pay packet is the first casualty, (and you can be almost certain that your union is not going to be the first one after that loss, to put their hand out in your protection, and ask for extra money, in fact the unions are very likely to pull their collective heads in all together and leave you somewhat naked and alone for the forseable future, so good luck, I am one of the lucky ones, who lived thru the good times, and I am sorry for you young ones, you did not deserve what has happened to you and your futures, and hopefully the whole box and dice comes back to straight and level and your futures are secure.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Qantas Has Tons Of Cash
$3Billion in cash and two months ago they went to the market and raised another $500 million...they aint going broke just going thru' a temporary bad patch.Its SARS and 911 all over again.Come Christmas aircaraft will be full and everybody will be called off AL ,LWOP and Forced LSL.
Seen it all before and heard all the doom saying before.
BTW the price of AV Gas is heading north.If it breaks $80/barrell the LCCs start losing money big time.LCCs are viable when AV Gas price is low
Seen it all before and heard all the doom saying before.
BTW the price of AV Gas is heading north.If it breaks $80/barrell the LCCs start losing money big time.LCCs are viable when AV Gas price is low
Join Date: Jun 2007
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People with reduced wages dont..
Buy a new fridge
A new car as often
Cut back on discretionary spending.
So when demand contracts the economy goes south.
There is currently a move to partime work big time.Try to get a mortgage when you work partime.
When the WFC is over everyone should agitate for a pay rise..a small one but a payrise nonetheless.
Everyone who works for cheap has been conned.Has your local plumber electrician or chippy reduced his hourly rate during the WFC? No!
Has the price of groceries gone down? No!
The smart employees get paid what they think they're worth.
The really smart employees get paid more than they're worth.
Just ask Dixon...the highest paid airline CEO in the world.
An arsehole...but a clever arsehole.
While we fight amongst ourselves they(management) laugh and give themselves a payrise
A new car as often
Cut back on discretionary spending.
So when demand contracts the economy goes south.
There is currently a move to partime work big time.Try to get a mortgage when you work partime.
When the WFC is over everyone should agitate for a pay rise..a small one but a payrise nonetheless.
Everyone who works for cheap has been conned.Has your local plumber electrician or chippy reduced his hourly rate during the WFC? No!
Has the price of groceries gone down? No!
The smart employees get paid what they think they're worth.
The really smart employees get paid more than they're worth.
Just ask Dixon...the highest paid airline CEO in the world.
An arsehole...but a clever arsehole.
While we fight amongst ourselves they(management) laugh and give themselves a payrise
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Qantas doing very well!!
Quote from Qantas website:
"Greater % of flights on-time than VIRGIN in the last 7 out of 8 months"
"Improved Domestic departure performance by 20% in the last 12 months"
And the announcement of the 2010 Qantas Cadet Program!
Posting a profit and not having to go out and raise capital... thing's are looking on the up for the mighty Q!!!!
"Greater % of flights on-time than VIRGIN in the last 7 out of 8 months"
"Improved Domestic departure performance by 20% in the last 12 months"
And the announcement of the 2010 Qantas Cadet Program!
Posting a profit and not having to go out and raise capital... thing's are looking on the up for the mighty Q!!!!
Posting a profit and not having to go out and raise capital... thing's are looking on the up for the mighty Q!!!!
Just a suggestion, you might want to investigate facts rather than get taken up by the media hype.
Unless of course I've just been baited...
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The reality is the gravy train has run off the rails.
Once the economy gets momentum & people start spending cash again, they'll look past the cheapest deals for those which offer the best value.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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The "Qantas" Brand is star performer
QANTAS boss Alan Joyce is blurring the boundary between Jetstar and the Qantas brand as he attempts to collect every dollar he can while running the airline for a loss for only the second time in its history.
While he sold the reported profit before tax of $181 million as evidence that the dual-brand strategy was working, the reality is his old brand Jetstar is catching up fast, and for the first time reported a higher profit than Qantas.
And there was another first in the 14-year history of the company: it was the first time a full-year dividend was not paid.
The impact of the downturn and swine flu, which cost the airline $45m, was dramatically illustrated by the fact that without $226m in profit from its frequent flyer division and the $86m profit booked in the first half on the sale of Qantas Holidays, it would be much further in the red today.
In the last year, Qantas earnings stood at just $4m, compared with $1.4 billion last year, while Jetstar hit another record, increasing earnings from $102m to $107m.
The reason was that international traffic dropped sharply, and domestic routes also fell with the slowdown in the economy.
Qantas's domestic passenger numbers fell 4.2 per cent in the year against an 11 per cent fall in international passengers. Jetstar recorded 6.8 per cent and 34.6 per cent increases, respectively.
The budget carrier is still tiny by comparison, carrying just over 10 million passengers last year against more than 23 million for Qantas mainline.
The decision to run five Jetstar flights a day between Melbourne and Sydney has raised eyebrows even more, given the route has the highest margins for Qantas.
Joyce has a good explanation: with Tiger running planes on the route, Qantas needs to offer an alternative.
The five flights will be at so-called leisure timeslots, against the 32 flights a day on the mainline brand.
The dividend decision is partly because the first-half payout was 100 per cent franked, meaning the company has no more franking credits to spare, and -- of course -- it is running a loss for the foreseeable future.
For obvious reasons, Joyce was reluctant to make a forecast in a year in which the international industry is tipped to report a loss of $US9bn ($11bn).
JPMorgan's Matt Crowe yesterday said the second half of this year would be stronger, which should put Qantas in positive territory.
The management of the Jetstar and Qantas brands has been an extraordinary success so far, but the lines are increasingly being blurred, and this magnifies the risks.
Joyce is pulling all the triggers he can to cut costs in the hope of a rapid recovery when the economy picks up.
At least the stockmarket thinks he is making all the right moves, given Qantas's stock price has doubled from its March lows to close yesterday at $2.69 a share, up 3.5 per cent on the day -- based on blue sky ahead as opposed to the red ink around Qantas today.
Qantas has changed the way it presents its figures, but suffice to say in the first half Qantas reported earnings of close to $200m -- which means it must be swimming in red ink now, to be reporting earnings before interest and tax of $4m.
The brand is the key to the success of the star performer -- the frequent flyer program, which under changed accounting treatment reported $226m in earnings against $128m last year.
Without the Qantas brand, there is no frequent flyer program. And without the frequent flyer program, Qantas the company would be awash in red ink now.
The good news is the recent Woolworths deal has been a stunner for Qantas and the retailer, with a million people signing up for the program.
Each time someone spends money and earns points, Woolies sends a payment to Qantas.
The program is fast heading towards 7 million members, which is roughly half the households in Australia. The benefits for Woolies include giving consumers another reason to shop at its store rather than Coles, and better customer knowledge, which should cut marketing spend.
As an aside, when Wesfarmers reports its numbers today, expect a big jump in Coles sales, showing it is closing the gap on Woolies.
[bold, my emphasis]
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As we have seen corporate managers seem not too interested in being innovative.They only want to take the easy solution and line their pockets as they go...
In other words they have no loyalty to anything let alone an iconic brand.
If management want to take the easy way out and push a 'price sensitive'....as they now call it brand instead of improving the parent brand they will do it...
They don't want to try and take a risk and get people in with skills to improve the existing product but instead give the public a cheap and nasty alternative because it doesn't take any real skill to do that....
If jobs are going then there will always be someone who is willing to accept that no matter what the pay...
It costs less and they don't really care about the consumer or what they want just the profit they can achieve the easiest way possible....
The new corporate motto should be give them less for less....
In other words they have no loyalty to anything let alone an iconic brand.
If management want to take the easy way out and push a 'price sensitive'....as they now call it brand instead of improving the parent brand they will do it...
They don't want to try and take a risk and get people in with skills to improve the existing product but instead give the public a cheap and nasty alternative because it doesn't take any real skill to do that....
If jobs are going then there will always be someone who is willing to accept that no matter what the pay...
It costs less and they don't really care about the consumer or what they want just the profit they can achieve the easiest way possible....
The new corporate motto should be give them less for less....
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Ka.Boom,
True, but rising fuel prices hurt everyone, including full service airlines. Your comment seems to suggest that Mainline will benefit and LCC's will demise with rising fuel costs. Forgive me if I am wrong.
BTW the price of AV Gas is heading north.If it breaks $80/barrell the LCCs start losing money big time.LCCs are viable when AV Gas price is low
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What Ka boom was probably refering to is the fact that Legacy carriers tend to have fatter margins than your typical LCC business model so tend to have the ability to "ride out a storm" better by squeezing those margins.
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What Ka boom was probably refering to is the fact that Legacy carriers tend to have fatter margins than your typical LCC business model so tend to have the ability to "ride out a storm" better by squeezing those margins.
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Glad they finally put a price on what a lame is worth, now we can use these figures at our next eba, Could of had us signed sealed and delivered for a measly 30 million and 4%. as for j* making the cash and keeping mainline afloat, cant wait until the dreamliner comes and j*have to actually stand on their own feet, watch the price fall
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It's a bit strange (well maybe not) to hear people trumpeting the Jetstar performance so much. Creative accounting aside, surely this is an entirely expected result of an economic downturn?
In tough economic times, companies are going to book their normal premium business travellers in economy. And their economy business travellers on Jetstar (or whoever is cheapest).
However when the economy picks up as it's expected to do next year, the mainline profit from the premium travellers will come soaring back. Not so for the LCCs.
So the long & short of it is that the current Jetstar vs Qantas mainline result is almost totally irrelevant at the moment. If it stays the same situation (which I doubt) when the economy bounces back, then we might have something to ponder.
In tough economic times, companies are going to book their normal premium business travellers in economy. And their economy business travellers on Jetstar (or whoever is cheapest).
However when the economy picks up as it's expected to do next year, the mainline profit from the premium travellers will come soaring back. Not so for the LCCs.
So the long & short of it is that the current Jetstar vs Qantas mainline result is almost totally irrelevant at the moment. If it stays the same situation (which I doubt) when the economy bounces back, then we might have something to ponder.
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[QUOTE] Falling Leaf:
Yep, appreciate that, and that worked in the past, but from reading these forums doesn't seem like there is a lot of fat left to squeeze[QUOTE]
If you look at the staffing levels at Qantas there is lots of fat that can still be trimmed. Reducing staff in areas that won't affect the delivery of product either is possible.
All it will take is for management to bite the bullet.
It appears Management thus far have chosen the easy path everytime, by hiding behind WorkChoices and Transmiting business to their greenfield's entity, JetStar, rather than taking the harder option of trying to instigate major structual change in what is obstensily a highly unionised workforce at the parent company,Qantas.
Yep, appreciate that, and that worked in the past, but from reading these forums doesn't seem like there is a lot of fat left to squeeze[QUOTE]
If you look at the staffing levels at Qantas there is lots of fat that can still be trimmed. Reducing staff in areas that won't affect the delivery of product either is possible.
All it will take is for management to bite the bullet.
It appears Management thus far have chosen the easy path everytime, by hiding behind WorkChoices and Transmiting business to their greenfield's entity, JetStar, rather than taking the harder option of trying to instigate major structual change in what is obstensily a highly unionised workforce at the parent company,Qantas.
a highly unionised workforce at the parent company,Qantas.
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competitive tendering for Pilots
"for example, how the pilots would fare if they were faced with competitive tendering as were the ASU and others?"
--Red Ken Borough
Answer:You would get ultra light pilots flying jumbos for $30kpa and aircraft incidents,accidents and loss of hulls and life would rise exponentially.Thats why Commercial airline pilots are paid the big bucks.Its commensurate with responsiblity and skill.Responsiblity for 400 lives and a piece of equipment worth $250mil.
Personally I dont want a monkey paid $30k pa flying on any jumbo or A380 that I happen to be a passenger on .
This stupidity in pushing down wages is an attempt to destroy the middle class and broaden the proletariat.
Hey Ken how about competitive tendering for the heart surgeon that is going to perform your tripple by pass?.
The best at anything should always command the highest wages(That will get the boofheads blustering)
--Red Ken Borough
Answer:You would get ultra light pilots flying jumbos for $30kpa and aircraft incidents,accidents and loss of hulls and life would rise exponentially.Thats why Commercial airline pilots are paid the big bucks.Its commensurate with responsiblity and skill.Responsiblity for 400 lives and a piece of equipment worth $250mil.
Personally I dont want a monkey paid $30k pa flying on any jumbo or A380 that I happen to be a passenger on .
This stupidity in pushing down wages is an attempt to destroy the middle class and broaden the proletariat.
Hey Ken how about competitive tendering for the heart surgeon that is going to perform your tripple by pass?.
The best at anything should always command the highest wages(That will get the boofheads blustering)
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Packrat,
Agreed with the competative tension bit.
BUT
Please don't tell me that QF are the best pilots out there. After all these new generation aircraft "take the piloting" out of the equation.
It's the "decision making" that is at the core of aviation. It certainly aint the "stick and rudder" of yesteryear.
I have seen/trained/checked many that have gone to DJ/JQ/QF/TT mate and to say that QF get the best is utter crap. Just as good go to the rest mate, so sorry to blow your theory to bits.
But to be fair, yes you are correct re the competative tension and the lack of undermining the same skill-set that prevails in other industries. Others are not so stupid as to "cut of their nose" if you know what I mean.
Agreed with the competative tension bit.
BUT
Please don't tell me that QF are the best pilots out there. After all these new generation aircraft "take the piloting" out of the equation.
It's the "decision making" that is at the core of aviation. It certainly aint the "stick and rudder" of yesteryear.
I have seen/trained/checked many that have gone to DJ/JQ/QF/TT mate and to say that QF get the best is utter crap. Just as good go to the rest mate, so sorry to blow your theory to bits.
But to be fair, yes you are correct re the competative tension and the lack of undermining the same skill-set that prevails in other industries. Others are not so stupid as to "cut of their nose" if you know what I mean.
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The competitive tendering process is done by pilots at every stage of their career.
-Having the self belief to go through the GA route and being competitively selected from the best that stream has to offer. Gaining the experience you will need.
-Getting selected competitively for a ADF pilots course. Then passing the selective criteria used to get yourself through it. Developing your ability to cope with operational pressures whilst gaining experience.
-Getting selected by a major airline whilst coping with stiff competition, aptitude and psych and motor skills tests.
-Going through the hoops of endorsement and promotional training, whilst being assessed at every stage.
-Maintaining the required standards year in and year out.
THATS the tendering process Ken. If most people could do it... like most of the ASU jobs (no offence people, we need you to run an airline too), you'd have a point.
-Having the self belief to go through the GA route and being competitively selected from the best that stream has to offer. Gaining the experience you will need.
-Getting selected competitively for a ADF pilots course. Then passing the selective criteria used to get yourself through it. Developing your ability to cope with operational pressures whilst gaining experience.
-Getting selected by a major airline whilst coping with stiff competition, aptitude and psych and motor skills tests.
-Going through the hoops of endorsement and promotional training, whilst being assessed at every stage.
-Maintaining the required standards year in and year out.
THATS the tendering process Ken. If most people could do it... like most of the ASU jobs (no offence people, we need you to run an airline too), you'd have a point.