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Merged: APNG Twin Otter Missing

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Merged: APNG Twin Otter Missing

Old 19th Jul 2010, 22:32
  #281 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs down

What happen to the AusAid money that was setup to assit with the investigation of that crash?

Did we ever get an outcome to the Bandit crash?
geeup is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2010, 22:40
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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What happen to the AusAid money that was setup to assit with the investigation of that crash?
ooohhhhh dis n dat

What do you reckon happened!
Jabawocky is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2010, 01:11
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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Kokoda crash report won't be delayed: Government

Kokoda crash report won't be delayed: Government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Headline says "won't be delayed" article says "time frame should not be impacted"

Hmmmm.....what to believe. We will never know in any case....

What a shambles

Di
Diatryma is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2010, 05:42
  #284 (permalink)  
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
 
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As is most things up here at the moment.
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2010, 19:16
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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I'm surprised they built up the enthusiasm to NOT renew the contract.
Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2010, 05:48
  #286 (permalink)  
 
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Just a thought.

If it were my company I would finance the report and get everything out in the open once and for all.I am sure it could be done in an unbaised way.

The PNG aviation authority will not improve because of it(Safety Report) but at least there would be closure for everyone.

APNG is a dynamic company and can very well foot the bill.
Night Beetle is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2010, 00:18
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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APNG can not fund the report it would never be seen as unbias. In a corrupt country like PNG it would never be seen as a true and unbias report. I have heard that people within APNG are not happy about this, of course they want this properly investigated what well run airline would not. Just remember APNG lost employees and friends that day that they still miss to this day. They are not as cold hearted as the journos would like to think they are.
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Old 1st Aug 2010, 21:03
  #288 (permalink)  
 
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Where the money comes from,no-one needs to know.

APNG lost 3 friends, what about the other nine lives.

The other families want to know why their friends never came home to.

Without any action soon this tragedy will only go the way of so many others in the past.
Night Beetle is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2010, 23:49
  #289 (permalink)  
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
 
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You would have to wonder why everyone is hanging on the edge of their seats for a report. unless it was an actual process failure, what can be achieved from it?. Yes it is sad, and a tragic loss of life, but actually having someone to blame for it isn't going to improve a damn thing.
You can have as many processes and procedures as you like to achieve a result, but if the PIC diverts away from them and causes an accident, what can you do?. no-one I know goes out of their way to cause an accident, and we all sign stuff that says we intend to adhere to the stated procedures, and yet an accident occurred. Did she follow procedure/process? we may never know, but probably not, as the accident happened.
As long as the report doesn't show a systemic failure, what other than blaming is to be achieved by it?.
In a situation such as this one, the report will be at best an educated guess based on the few facts they can glean from paperwork and witnesses.
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2010, 01:41
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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It gives some closure for those grieving.

Get the job finished and stop blaming the in efficiencies of the PNG CAA for not getting "a report" out.
Night Beetle is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 00:33
  #291 (permalink)  
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Well Mr. all knowing night beetle. maybe you should look into who is actually responsible for the report then. It aint the CAA. Maybe have a look at the AIC and point your finger at them huh?. As you obviously know who I am, and I'm pretty sure I know who you are, you would know that the mob I work for are not involved at all. In fact we ourselves are also waiting for the report .
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 02:41
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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Here steady on, auz. I don't know who you are and have no desire to.

I do know you have alot to say about everything,that is fine.Your right and my right to comment also.
Lets leave the personal abuse out of this.

It is the "system" that is at fault,if you work in part of the "system"that is purely coincidental.
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 04:28
  #293 (permalink)  
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No personal abuse intended....... Must just read bad.
I do have a bit to say, but only about matters I know about. this happens to be one of those matters. (with regards to my last post)
I was simply wondering aloud with the post before. Wondering why so much importance is being placed on a report that will in essence achieve very little.
Basically, unless there was a systemic procedural problem, the pilot got it wrong. So someone gets the blame.... I can't see that achieving much at all. I guess the families will get closure of sorts........ they can now blame someone.
But why all the media coverage and public outcry of Syd getting canned?. Yes, the report will be delayed, but it certainly isn't going to make flying in PNG any safer because a report into a tragic accident is released. If one believes all the media hype, its the be all and end all of air safety in PNG and unless its release is done in a short time, we're all going to crash and die.
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 22:52
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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The aviation industry in PNG has been basically self regulated for years by the operators, due to the associated problems with the government departments who are responsible for the industry, hence all the operators have taken it on board to enhance their own safety culture within their organizations. As mentioned in one of the recent newspaper reports last weekend, ramp checks etc once were being carried out but when the funding dried up it all stopped.

The report isn't really going to tell us anymore than we already know, the PIC hit the hill in IMC and that was the end of it. What needs to be addressed is how she ended up being in IMC below the LSALT, ie inexperience, training, commercial pressures, and the list goes on. To say that the aircraft crashed due to bad weather just doesn't fit the bill, as the PIC was the one who put the aircraft into the bad weather, was the weather bad at PY when she departed ? No.

I totally agree with Wiz, if the PIC diverts from SOP's/process which obviously has occurred in this instance it leaves a lot of things open. Basically if a crew ignore SOP's, then they are out on their own.

Industry education is the thing that should be coming out of this report, not pointing fingers at various people.

As we all know PNG is on of the toughest countries in the world to fly in, and the more the PNG aviation community learn from tragic accidents like this the better, in an effort to prevent accidents like this from occurring in the future.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 07:57
  #295 (permalink)  
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Agreed Blackhand. he certainly can be his own worse enemy sometimes.
You know who I was talking about...... He also told me the same thing about the money. I believe what they offered was on the point of being ridicules and he was hanging out for a better offer.
The crasher remark was tongue in cheek........... but he is pretty good at it.
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2010, 01:29
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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Wondering why so much importance is being placed on a report that will in essence achieve very little.
Well Wiz perhaps this helps to explain why some may be interested in exactly why the accident happened?:


Kokoda crash pay-outs capped by PNG law | The Australian

Kokoda crash pay-outs capped by PNG law.

RELATIVES of the nine Australians killed in an air crash near Kokoda would only get paltry compensation under the country's legislation.

Several groups of relatives are due to visit Kokoda and the crash site about 85km north of the capital Port Moresby this week, to hold a memorial service on the one year anniversary of the accident, which killed the Australians, three Papua New Guineans and one Japanese when their aircraft hit a mountain.

The relatives could face hostility from some landowners at the crash site who have yet to receive any reparations for damage to their property.
Earlier this year, landowners in a village near the site complained their water supply had been contaminated and a swath of forest had been chopped down to allow rescue and salvage helicopters to access the crash site, on a steep ridge about six hours' walk from the nearest road.
The landowners alleged medicines carried by the plane had leached into a local creek and polluted the water supply.

A local ex-pat who asked not to be named told The Australian that landowners had conducted an animated discussion about compensation with Australian High Commission officials who visited the crash site.
Yesterday a spokesman for the Australian Foreign Affairs Department reported villagers said they had written to Airlines PNG about the issues.
Airlines PNG, which operated the crash plane, said last month that compensation was "being discussed with the state".

PNG's Community Development Minister, Carol Kidu, who is accompanying one group of relatives to the crash site this week, confirmed compensation had been an issue but said she would be with the group and would help explain the situation to locals.

Compensation payouts from the airline's insurers to the Australian relatives could be as little as $12,500, according to experienced international aviation lawyer Patrick Nunan.

Mr Nunan says the families of the Kokoda victims would only be entitled to a capped payment of a maximum of 30,000 kina or about $12,500 under the local legislation.


TB
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Old 11th Aug 2010, 00:19
  #297 (permalink)  
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Nail on the head TB. thats what the locals are more interested in.
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Old 11th Aug 2010, 01:30
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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I think any shortfall it what Australian courts would consider appropriate compensation should be taken out of Australia’s annual aid package to PNG. As for the local land owners wanting compensation? Take that up with the aircraft owner, Airlines PNG and the PNG Government. This has absolutely nothing tho do with the Australian victims, their families or the Australian tax payer. I am very disappointed that the Australian High Commission even talked to them.
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Old 11th Aug 2010, 02:22
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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APNG is an international operator and will have appropriate liability insurance as a condition of its Australian FAOC. Whether or not the PNG CAA provided proper regulatory oversight or adequate investigation, it was APNG's crash, not the PNG Government's. The Government may yet have to answer to ICAO on this and a number of other issues. But not the point here.
Because Australian citizens were involved, a case for compensation should be brought to court at an international level.
While it is not usual for investigations to apportion blame - but to find the cause - litigation lawyers don't operate under any such limitations. Once blame is established, if land has been polluted, the landowners may also be able to seek a settlement at a higher level or for a higher value than what is available locally. It probably depends on their ability to engage a suitable headkicking legal team. How is it the responsibility of the Australian taxpayer, via any special aid, unless it becomes some kind of urgent natural or environmental disaster? Unlikely that a passenger-carrying Twin Otter would be carrying enough toxins to do that. And if it was, that would open up another can of worms via the DG regulations.
Whatever, the insurers will be in their usual huddle to try and weasel out at minimum cost.
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Old 11th Aug 2010, 13:41
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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Of course they would have insurance, but the insurer wouldn't pay out more than they legally had to. Why should they?

Aussie citizens or not - it was a domestic flight and subject to PNG law - which limits payout from the carrier to 30,000 Kina. The nationality of those killed is irrelevant.

The litigation lawyers you refer to Mach therefore have nowhere to go against APNG. Of course if they can find someone else to blame then they may be able to get somewhere. Hence they would probably be very interested in the outcome of the accident investigations.

I don't like their chances.

No offence Mach, but personally I'm a bit over insurance bashing sentiments from those who perhaps aren't armed with the facts.

TB
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