Virgin nose wheel incident
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Kimir, how often do you hear of a wheel falling off a car? Not often... and there are MANY more cars on our roads than planes in our skies. Checks on aircraft SHOULD be a LOT more stringent than on motor vehicles. You would therefore suspect that the likely-hood of a wheel falling off an aircraft is virtually zero when compared to that of a car (considering that I do not recall hearing of a wheel falling off a car in the close to 20 years have been driving).
Would you be a little bit annoyed if a wheel fell off your car? Who could you blame?
The dodgey mechanics?
Or yourself for not giving you car a once over before driving?
Perhaps yourself also for not having the car serviced regularly?
Would you be a little bit annoyed if a wheel fell off your car? Who could you blame?
The dodgey mechanics?
Or yourself for not giving you car a once over before driving?
Perhaps yourself also for not having the car serviced regularly?
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As for his blatant, well reported and published lies about VB not carrying out any "safety checks" before departure,
I believe our learned friends in funny wigs will be asking him for some evidential proof to qualify his statement in a
small wooden forum very soon..
A case of deja vu for all concerned
Will you use the same learned friends as the last time, lol.
2003...
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers' Association has detailed to the Industrial Commission
a number of instances in which it alleges public safety has been put at risk by the airline's new
policy of having pilots, rather than engineers, conducting visual safety checks on aircraft.
I believe our learned friends in funny wigs will be asking him for some evidential proof to qualify his statement in a
small wooden forum very soon..
A case of deja vu for all concerned
Will you use the same learned friends as the last time, lol.
2003...
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers' Association has detailed to the Industrial Commission
a number of instances in which it alleges public safety has been put at risk by the airline's new
policy of having pilots, rather than engineers, conducting visual safety checks on aircraft.
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If as reported the cause of the axle failure was corrosion,perhaps a more pertinent question may be could/should it have been detected at the last nose wheel change.Corrosion is a long-term issue and would have been developing for some time.That said,the aircraft would have had a Daily or equivalent inspection by an engineer in the preceding 48 hours,a somewhat more detailed inspection than any pre-flight.Should it have been discovered then?The issue of engineer pre-flights is like that of the carriage of a flight engineer - redundant - because the manufacturers and the certifying authorities have deemed it to be so!
All the industrial posturing will make no difference at all. Cheers
All the industrial posturing will make no difference at all. Cheers
Last edited by 30/30 Green Light; 28th Jul 2009 at 20:18. Reason: Bad Spelling!
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kimir, I understand all that I have a background in safety engineering (and for what it is worth I have studied 232 Sioux City in depth). I'm not criticising what happened on the walkaround - I have no knowledge of that. But I do know 737s do not have a history of losing front wheels during taxi.
Corrosion or FATIGUE??? two completely different problems, either of which are not easy or possible to identify on a visual inspection.
A FlightWest F100 lost a MAIN gear wheel assembly on landing in Norfolk Island many years ago, similar problem. I understand the flight crew were quite alarmed to see the wheel overtake them on the landing roll out!
What bothers me is the rock apes that feel that they have to inscribe their name or "tag" on the main gear strut/link because it is dirty. Reported more than once, in one case down to the metal underneath, to which the LAME said it would have to be removed and inspected.................
Half of you probably dont even operate 737's. Those who do would note that a good visual inspection of the wheel assembly's is possible, but you are looking for the obvious. Hopefully some pictures may surface soon to show the extent of the corrosion/fatigue and where abouts (inside of the axle or rim which is harder to see)
A FlightWest F100 lost a MAIN gear wheel assembly on landing in Norfolk Island many years ago, similar problem. I understand the flight crew were quite alarmed to see the wheel overtake them on the landing roll out!
What bothers me is the rock apes that feel that they have to inscribe their name or "tag" on the main gear strut/link because it is dirty. Reported more than once, in one case down to the metal underneath, to which the LAME said it would have to be removed and inspected.................
Half of you probably dont even operate 737's. Those who do would note that a good visual inspection of the wheel assembly's is possible, but you are looking for the obvious. Hopefully some pictures may surface soon to show the extent of the corrosion/fatigue and where abouts (inside of the axle or rim which is harder to see)
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brissysparky, you do not hear of many wheels falling off cars because usually there is no one to witness it and it doesn't sell papers. It was a failure of a system.......thats it.
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30/30 GREEN LIGHT FYI, The corrosion you mentioned occurrs under the nose wheel spacer which is not normally removed on a nose wheel change as it is attached by split pins. Therefore the likehood of corrosion being detected on a nose wheel change is fairly remote.
To all who thinks these things never happen. Didn't a regional SAAB lose a wheel last year and a B727 lose a wheel a few years age. Wheels aren't the only things to fall off planes. A 737-700 lost an undercarriage spring which hit a house about 2004, and going back further I seem to recall a B747-300 that ripped a bogie out doing a u-turn on the runway in Rome. GA has had its share as well- a couple of emegency exits come to mind (separate incidents). Bits also get left on planes- a g-clamp on a nacelle. Have I missed any operators? I'm also sure you will find many more incidents on a global scale with a bit of searching.
Bottom line is that these things happen for a wide range of reasons. The reasons need to be addressed and the risks minimised to prevent further incidents.
C441- too true.
Clark y
Bottom line is that these things happen for a wide range of reasons. The reasons need to be addressed and the risks minimised to prevent further incidents.
C441- too true.
Clark y
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No wonder us old blokes loved having a flight engineer on board, nice having another set of eyes and ears, these blokes spoke the same language as the LAME, but then we had a LAME on every pushback, but thats progress for you.
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Brissysparky, it is obvious you have not read any of my earlier posts. I do believe it is a serious thing, my original point was about the media and also about me not believing anyone, ame, lame or pilot would have been able to pick up the problem.....the thread has digressed. It is obvious you haven't read my post otherwise you would realise i fly 737's. So no I dont have a casual attitude just making comments about the media (the lack of accuracy and substance) and the comments from mr P. Mr P has a responsibility to use his brain and engage it before opening his mouth and inflaming the situation with what could have beens. He in fact is not helping his members if he looses them their jobs due to no-one flying on the airline because they are all scared.(due to his "expert" comments)
Last edited by kimir; 29th Jul 2009 at 13:29.
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Point taken re reading your earlier posts and I agree that the media seems to over-react to many incidents recently however, I think Steve has made the statements he made for a very good reason.
Over my years in the industry, I have seen the focus shifted from safety and compliance above cost to a situation now where we have bean counters playing a very dangerous balancing act. LAME-less push-backs are a good example.
Nobody knows (yet) the extent of the problems that caused the wheel to come off the aircraft in question however, a few things should be considered.
1) During push back, there may quite likely have been signs that something was wrong. A strange sound perhaps? May not have been evident until the aircraft was actually moving.
No LAME there to observe this.
2) What would have happened had the plane taken off without incident, flown, landed and the wheel come off upon landing? I'd suspect we would have been looking at an incident a bit more serious that what actually occurred.
The point is, how far can cutting back on engineering safely go? Is it really worth the risk to keep going down this path?
Safety before schedule is the catch cry nowadays. If only those that promote this were genuinely serious about it instead of just pissing in our pockets.
Over my years in the industry, I have seen the focus shifted from safety and compliance above cost to a situation now where we have bean counters playing a very dangerous balancing act. LAME-less push-backs are a good example.
Nobody knows (yet) the extent of the problems that caused the wheel to come off the aircraft in question however, a few things should be considered.
1) During push back, there may quite likely have been signs that something was wrong. A strange sound perhaps? May not have been evident until the aircraft was actually moving.
No LAME there to observe this.
2) What would have happened had the plane taken off without incident, flown, landed and the wheel come off upon landing? I'd suspect we would have been looking at an incident a bit more serious that what actually occurred.
The point is, how far can cutting back on engineering safely go? Is it really worth the risk to keep going down this path?
Safety before schedule is the catch cry nowadays. If only those that promote this were genuinely serious about it instead of just pissing in our pockets.
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SRM,Thank you for that info.I guess that in this case the issue of the engineer pre-flight is not relevant.However,in light of VBA Eng's post, does the LAME just hook up the power-push and walk away to await departure without a look around out of professional interest? Cheers!
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I understand the gear was overhauled by Lufthansa Technic, was this an exchange gear machined to full oversize, of far greater age and traceless history than the aircraft which it was fitted? OUTSOURCING IS GREAT it removes any pride in work and ensures its done to a price not a standard.
QF worked out this was a costly decision to outsource their gear. They had nice new low cycle, zero oversize, gear out and received unknown max oversize gear in. Atleast a manager got their bonus for a couple of years at whatever expense to the airline!
I know when I do a wheel change I wipe the axle and have a look and have an idea what to look for! Will this be the same with CAT A Licensed minimally task trained Cert 2 personal?
Airlines will always do what they can get away with. CASA IS RESPONSIBLE to ensure suitable standards are set, maintained and enforced. CASA aint really doing their job!
Axles don't corrode through overnight?
What else wasn't done?
QF worked out this was a costly decision to outsource their gear. They had nice new low cycle, zero oversize, gear out and received unknown max oversize gear in. Atleast a manager got their bonus for a couple of years at whatever expense to the airline!
I know when I do a wheel change I wipe the axle and have a look and have an idea what to look for! Will this be the same with CAT A Licensed minimally task trained Cert 2 personal?
Airlines will always do what they can get away with. CASA IS RESPONSIBLE to ensure suitable standards are set, maintained and enforced. CASA aint really doing their job!
Axles don't corrode through overnight?
What else wasn't done?
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biggerhammer
So he believes that the average Lame posesses Superman type X-ray vision and the ability to carry out HFEC Insp with the brush of his finger on a pre flight.. Get real man..
He's trying to up the standards across the industry and keep LAME's in jobs and if he can get an audience to push that case he'll do it.
As for not biting the hand that feeds it what exactly do you mean?
cant mean Qantas surely after the highly acrimonious EBA dispute that went on last year.Relations although better are not great right now either.
I do remember him and other reps going public over qantas' very well publicised incidents recently.
If he didnt comment on the recent 737 pressurisation issue its prob because it was an NZ registered aircraft.
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I understand the gear was overhauled by Lufthansa Technic, was this an exchange gear machined to full oversize, of far greater age and traceless history than the aircraft which it was fitted? OUTSOURCING IS GREAT it removes any pride in work and ensures its done to a price not a standard.
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I am disappointed that an industry body has joined in the (sadly) expected chorus of ill informed comment from the lay media. If anyone is genuinelly expecting that walk arounds by anyone (engineer, pilot or anyone in between) will pick up underlying defects such as corrosion or fatigue, they are having a lend of themselves. A strong regimen of checks to look for underlying problems if the only way that they will be picked up but that is too hard to detail in a 30 second sound bite. A fear campaign that convinces the public that there are quick and easy fixes or appealing to xenophobia regarding maintenance will only hurt all of us in the industry over time as it will not fix any problem.
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A LAME did the pushback.
It was a LAME despatch with the power push unit.
It was a LAME despatch with the power push unit.
No, it was a first time overhaul gear off another VB aircraft
Everything else on this thread is hearsey and rubbish. Thank you VBA Engineer, now there is nothing left for the Q boys to whinge about.