Pilot wins agesim lawsuit
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Pilot wins agesim lawsuit
Hmm, what could be wrong with an experienced Pilot then? 
Pilot awarded $15,000 over discrimination - National - NZ Herald News
Pilot awarded $15,000 over discrimination - National - NZ Herald News
Hmm, what could be wrong with an experienced Pilot then?
Something of a pyrrhic victory, I would suggest.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for pilots continuing to fly for as long as they like (provided they satisfy medical and proficiency standards). It just seems that this is not quite the victory the headline suggests.
I think you may be misreading the article. I read it that he was awarded $15,000 in costs in respect to the appeal to the Supreme Court, who only over ruled a decision of the Appeals Court.
Having over ruled the Appeals Court, the Supreme Court have now handed the matter back to the Employment Court to deal with the original complaint and if warranted, award reinstatement and/or monetary damages.
At least I think that is what they are trying to say!
Having over ruled the Appeals Court, the Supreme Court have now handed the matter back to the Employment Court to deal with the original complaint and if warranted, award reinstatement and/or monetary damages.
At least I think that is what they are trying to say!
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Would you get bypass pay if demoted like this?
I guess this could be considered a class action as the outcome would set a precedent and therefore important for all NZ long haul pilots approaching 60.
Those last few years income at the top of your game could be quite important in providing for a comfortable retirement after all.
I guess this could be considered a class action as the outcome would set a precedent and therefore important for all NZ long haul pilots approaching 60.
Those last few years income at the top of your game could be quite important in providing for a comfortable retirement after all.
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Glad to hear he won his case; recent history shows he would have had far less chance of success in UK.
Why do some young whipper-snappers think they have more of a right to his well-earned salary than he does?
Perhaps he needs to continue working to keep a wife, or an ex-wife in the manner she'd like to become accustomed to. Or he may have other relatives needing financial support. Or, perhaps in this financial climate, he would have insufficient personal income from failed pension investments. My in-laws found they had to continue working until very recently, till they were both 79 years old. Having always paid a fair whack into pension funds, they realised it was nowhere near enough to keep them solvent with a reasonable quality of life, especially under this present government.
Either way, if this pilot continues to pass his medical and his check-rides, why shouldn't he continue to fly and earn a living?
Why do some young whipper-snappers think they have more of a right to his well-earned salary than he does?
Perhaps he needs to continue working to keep a wife, or an ex-wife in the manner she'd like to become accustomed to. Or he may have other relatives needing financial support. Or, perhaps in this financial climate, he would have insufficient personal income from failed pension investments. My in-laws found they had to continue working until very recently, till they were both 79 years old. Having always paid a fair whack into pension funds, they realised it was nowhere near enough to keep them solvent with a reasonable quality of life, especially under this present government.
Either way, if this pilot continues to pass his medical and his check-rides, why shouldn't he continue to fly and earn a living?
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Just a thought...
Was it known or did he know that when he turned 60 he would no longer be able to fly Long Haul and his flying would be restricted to other flights?
In other words was he aware that this would happen?
It does not matter what his personal situation is or what he would like to do.We all would like to do a number of things but in the end we can't stop the march of time even if we love doing a particular job....
What happens when he turns 70 or 80 ....does he claim discrimination just because he loves flying?
Or is this another case of a lack of communication.....
Was it known or did he know that when he turned 60 he would no longer be able to fly Long Haul and his flying would be restricted to other flights?
In other words was he aware that this would happen?
It does not matter what his personal situation is or what he would like to do.We all would like to do a number of things but in the end we can't stop the march of time even if we love doing a particular job....
What happens when he turns 70 or 80 ....does he claim discrimination just because he loves flying?
Or is this another case of a lack of communication.....
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Wow, I must've hit a nerve there!! However it seems like the majority of posters not deleted from thread agree with my (or what was my) viewpoint.
Maybe I should've called the spade a man-draulic gardening implement!
Maybe I should've called the spade a man-draulic gardening implement!
Mr Split trailing edge, it has nothing what so ever to do with ego. I am 60 and contracted to 62. That will be enough (and I could get the boot next year with the fleet I am on being retired.) I fly because I love it and lets face it, going to Europe or the States is more interesting than mowing the bloody lawn. Your Command will come, when things pick up there will be plenty for all. Anyway I am off to work, ............where did I put that stick?
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It has nothing to do with money and everything to do with ego.
He asked his wife why he was going to dislike it so much.
She told him that after he retired he was going to be one more bloke walking down the street and no one was going to address him as Captain.
He then admitted to the other pilots listening that his wife was right and he wasn't looking forward to it anymore.
I think split flap is spot on.
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Writing off what ammounts to a precedent setting case as being merely an issue of ego is petty and small-minded.
60 is not that old these days and a demotion could have real consequences in terms of security, status, income and happiness.
If you have achieved (or believe you will) and can maintain such a financially and emotionally rich life outside of the job that these things don't matter to you, well done.
Though I suspect you are either deluded or have no penis!
Whether the airline has any other reasonable option is another matter.
60 is not that old these days and a demotion could have real consequences in terms of security, status, income and happiness.
If you have achieved (or believe you will) and can maintain such a financially and emotionally rich life outside of the job that these things don't matter to you, well done.
Though I suspect you are either deluded or have no penis!
Whether the airline has any other reasonable option is another matter.
Last edited by NO LAND 3; 21st Jul 2009 at 10:51.
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I think if you can't accept the fact that you have reached 60 and the rules are that you can't fly to the US then you definitely
but if you come up with a statement like that then it is no wonder.
are either deluded or have no penis!
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http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/...d/fileDecision
PS - 60 is old. I know this because 50 is old, so 60 must be at least 20% older.
At age 60, most old aviators should be busy squandering their super on some half-baked horticultural venture.
PS - 60 is old. I know this because 50 is old, so 60 must be at least 20% older.
At age 60, most old aviators should be busy squandering their super on some half-baked horticultural venture.
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Rubbish, I am 70, and that is not old, I was SPIFR until 63, and that only stopped because the job disappeared due to circumstances beyond my control.
"I fly because I love it and lets face it, going to Europe or the States is more interesting than mowing the bloody lawn. " is the most relevant statement yet, in my opinion.
"I fly because I love it and lets face it, going to Europe or the States is more interesting than mowing the bloody lawn. " is the most relevant statement yet, in my opinion.
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If one wants to fly for love, then they should fly for love - rather than money.
Prospector: Qantas and AirNZ can stop this nonsense very easily, by returning to the old system re medicals.
Prospector: Qantas and AirNZ can stop this nonsense very easily, by returning to the old system re medicals.
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Pot calling the kettle black
I think it's funny that a number of pilots here on PPrune have a go at cabin crew because at their age they are so called 'old boilers' however when the pilots are at retirement age it's a different matter......
Is that not the point of accepting that you are no longer in your 20's or even 50's.....how long do you want to carry on....how about 80....or 90....
In my case I retired a little more than a year ago after more than 30 years flying.I didn't leave because I was sick of the job and in fact I enjoyed it immensely....
However,as much as I would like to be 21 again and starting my career and have another 30 years of fun,the reality is that I'm not 21 anymore......
It's not that I prefer to mow the lawns but it's time for me to do other things that I enjoy and finally spend time with my wife.....for the first time since we married simply because I was away from home most of the time....
One of the main problems with life is not accepting your situation and dealing with it....
If that person thinks that the only thing in life is flying and mowing the lawn they must have a very boring life....
Rubbish, I am 70, and that is not old
the job disappeared due to circumstances beyond my control
I fly because I love it and lets face it, going to Europe or the States is more interesting than mowing the bloody lawn. is the most relevant statement yet, in my opinion.
However,as much as I would like to be 21 again and starting my career and have another 30 years of fun,the reality is that I'm not 21 anymore......
It's not that I prefer to mow the lawns but it's time for me to do other things that I enjoy and finally spend time with my wife.....for the first time since we married simply because I was away from home most of the time....
One of the main problems with life is not accepting your situation and dealing with it....
If that person thinks that the only thing in life is flying and mowing the lawn they must have a very boring life....
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"One of the main problems with life is not accepting your situation and dealing with it...."
You obviously have, but no doubt your situation to start with is different to anyone else's, so there for the answers have to be different for different people. The Framingham graph makes it very difficult to keep a 1st class medical over 65, but some people can still pass it. Good luck to them.
I wanted to carry on as long as I was enjoying flying, it is only when you knock off you realize just how incredibly lucky one was with choice of career, although that appears to have changed in the last little while.
Who else has an office window with the view that aeroplane drivers have??? What other satisfaction matches an ILS to minimums and then a greaser of a landing?
And yes there is a life besides flying, I have done some 50,000miles of Ocean Racing and cruising, very much enjoyed the single handed racing, but still give SPIFR the tick for most satisfaction.
You obviously have, but no doubt your situation to start with is different to anyone else's, so there for the answers have to be different for different people. The Framingham graph makes it very difficult to keep a 1st class medical over 65, but some people can still pass it. Good luck to them.
I wanted to carry on as long as I was enjoying flying, it is only when you knock off you realize just how incredibly lucky one was with choice of career, although that appears to have changed in the last little while.
Who else has an office window with the view that aeroplane drivers have??? What other satisfaction matches an ILS to minimums and then a greaser of a landing?
And yes there is a life besides flying, I have done some 50,000miles of Ocean Racing and cruising, very much enjoyed the single handed racing, but still give SPIFR the tick for most satisfaction.
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The debate the supreme court heard was one purely based on the discrimination of one person by an employer because of their age.
This did happen. In order to follow the rules, at the time, set by the FAA no commanders over 60 years of age into US airspace.
In this case the employer did not make the rules, the FAA made the rules, they were just following them.
The employment court will decide whether or not the employer could have adjusted their operation to accommodate the employee. (Seeing as the Air NZ 74 was for that time going daily to LAX, and LHR via LAX, and twice weekly to SFO and NRT I personally dont see how anyone could expect to be accommodated their position to sit at home for months on end, occasionally going to Japan, on full pay of a 74 training captain).
The employee could have taken a similar position on a different fleet with different destinations that would have allowed him to keep his flight instructor position. (That he was supposedly so passionate about)
Split Flap you are absolutely 100% correct. The man is incredibly arrogant. Money is his only motivator and unfortunately he and his cronies wont be leaving before they get their payout.
This did happen. In order to follow the rules, at the time, set by the FAA no commanders over 60 years of age into US airspace.
In this case the employer did not make the rules, the FAA made the rules, they were just following them.
The employment court will decide whether or not the employer could have adjusted their operation to accommodate the employee. (Seeing as the Air NZ 74 was for that time going daily to LAX, and LHR via LAX, and twice weekly to SFO and NRT I personally dont see how anyone could expect to be accommodated their position to sit at home for months on end, occasionally going to Japan, on full pay of a 74 training captain).
The employee could have taken a similar position on a different fleet with different destinations that would have allowed him to keep his flight instructor position. (That he was supposedly so passionate about)
Split Flap you are absolutely 100% correct. The man is incredibly arrogant. Money is his only motivator and unfortunately he and his cronies wont be leaving before they get their payout.