Reduced layovers at V Australia
Nunc est bibendum
Many( Not All) CFO DO HAVE A COMMAND 777 RATING.......
So inandout, just to clarify. How many of the applicants who aready had a Command endorsement went on as CFO's? Did they lack the experience level for a window seat?
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who ever came to VA witout a 777 rating as a CRFO/RFO/SO got a co pilot rating.
The difference with the start of VA and VB was the VB guys had a union from the start or almost from the start
VA pilots dont have anything. If the balance was more equal then that wouldnt be so bad, but VA pilots need a union. I guess this is thread drift but until VIPA is up and running they should all join AFAP. If and when they want to change in the future decde then. Do die waiting
The difference with the start of VA and VB was the VB guys had a union from the start or almost from the start
VA pilots dont have anything. If the balance was more equal then that wouldnt be so bad, but VA pilots need a union. I guess this is thread drift but until VIPA is up and running they should all join AFAP. If and when they want to change in the future decde then. Do die waiting
So I guess it would be safe to say inandout that CFO's with command ratings who left jet jobs (especially those with commands), would after a time be able to move to a front seat. Otherwise...
WTF!!!
WTF!!!
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Yes big call on there behalf?? It was well known that provision had been made for aircraft 4 to 7 to be crewed by VB pilots so i cant see where the progression they thought was going to come from that was no secret.. I guess they could all afford the pension on offer..
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Will it ruin a good point if I point out that the AFAP agreement with VB was that 4/7th of the flight crew slots were to be offered to VB pilots? They don't have to fill them. Very few came over before they were forced to by threatened job losses. Many of those that took CFO and FO slots took a gamble on quick upgrades in an expanding airline. If that doesn't happen then many will leave for greener pastures if and when they appear. Having said that there are a portion for whom a CFO job was a pay rise. Surprising given some of the comments about pay in this thread. The rosters promised at the interview meant this job enabled a good life style. I agree with hunglo that a 29hr layover is not an issue until you up the workload, then you have fatigue, crappy pay and no lifestyle. But I think the point Hunglo was trying to make is that; FRMS in general and particularly when companies administer them without any feed back except when you are too fatigued to fly or drive; all in a environment devoid of industrial protection are ineffective and dangerous. I'm sure that no one expected the long layovers to last forever but the lack of progression opportunities because VB pilots are being forced to come to VA and delayed aircraft deliveries have meant that there is no upside. It has become GA just with bigger toys. Poor communication and lack of information from management ( dinky ra ra news letters that say nothing meaningful don't really hit the spot) along with people management section (PMS how appropriate) refusal to even be flexible with car spaces for those who commute all contribute to a ground swell of discontentment. VB worked hard to alienate their crew as well (read the intro to the current VB agreement). I can only hope that VA management will take notice rather that get defensive when suggestions and comments are made. If they don't, when aviation picks up generating those greener pastures the very staff they need will be on their way some where else.
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Knowall..Again the VB pilots that have taken FO slots were not threatened with job loss,they are all senior enough to not be let go if they lay the bottom 737 guys off!! Only the couple that have accepted CFO positions may have been in trouble had they laid the bottom guys off..
Crying the VB guys are taking your upgrades makes me laugh,were not alot of you told to get a window seat you will have to go to VB when the time comes??
You all took the positions with stars in your eyes and now its not what you thought it was going to be..And as for many it was a pay rise so what if thats how you look at it thats why all pilots around the world are being screwed down because people like you are willing to be scab labour to try to climb the ladder quickly..Well guess what if the likes of these people willing to do it for nothing just to get on a jet continue there wont be any point getting to the top of the ladder cause there will be nothing worthwhile up there for you or to support your family..
Think big picture not big jet!!
Crying the VB guys are taking your upgrades makes me laugh,were not alot of you told to get a window seat you will have to go to VB when the time comes??
You all took the positions with stars in your eyes and now its not what you thought it was going to be..And as for many it was a pay rise so what if thats how you look at it thats why all pilots around the world are being screwed down because people like you are willing to be scab labour to try to climb the ladder quickly..Well guess what if the likes of these people willing to do it for nothing just to get on a jet continue there wont be any point getting to the top of the ladder cause there will be nothing worthwhile up there for you or to support your family..
Think big picture not big jet!!
Last edited by Beeroclock; 23rd Jul 2009 at 12:09.
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Again the VB pilots that have taken FO slots were not threatened with job loss
Can I throw something else in the mix here. Everyone is on about how the VA guys are lowering T&C's in Australian aviation if not the world, What about when Qantas started charging for the skills and psychometric testing who was the first person to say “but it’s Qantas if I have to pay $200 then I’ll do it”, or when JQ started charging $15 just to have a CV on file. What about the first people to pay for endorsements, what about when guys starting working at the local drop zone or the local aero club for free just to "get their hours up".
Sorry but you can not blame these guys, this industry has been slowly getting inbred over the years, and will take a lot to turn it around .
Last edited by W00kiee; 24th Jul 2009 at 09:53.
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WOOKiee.......your correct on a few accounts, however what you are dealing with are people who dont reason very well. For whatever reason, they find comfort in being negative about V Australia and tend to troll pprune in search of a negative post about the company.
It makes me think they were either knocked back for an interview or failed one, or are a bit envious of mates of theirs that may be flying B777's and they arent. Why else would they concern themselves with the operation? there is absolutely d!ckall they can do to improve conditions, and sledging V Australia pilots and the operation itself, I think is a futile attempt at making themselves feel better.
But hey....they are experts though...some of them fly for REX and are champions at taking on the Singaporeans, so they are obviously well versed to offer us all advice on what T&C's to accept and are great at telling other pilots "I told you so"..
It makes me think they were either knocked back for an interview or failed one, or are a bit envious of mates of theirs that may be flying B777's and they arent. Why else would they concern themselves with the operation? there is absolutely d!ckall they can do to improve conditions, and sledging V Australia pilots and the operation itself, I think is a futile attempt at making themselves feel better.
But hey....they are experts though...some of them fly for REX and are champions at taking on the Singaporeans, so they are obviously well versed to offer us all advice on what T&C's to accept and are great at telling other pilots "I told you so"..
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Wookie, just remember the VB guys were the first ones to pay for their type ratings, so before you go slagging off at others, just remember who started all this rubbish in the first place??...
Last edited by pigdriver; 23rd Jul 2009 at 10:38.
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Wookie no pilots at VB have been made redundant or retrenched whatever you want to call it!! They may have been pointed in a certain direction but chose to go that way..
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the VB guys were the first ones to pay for their type ratings
just remember who started all this rubbish in the first place??...
Sand dune Sam, Well said!
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Lets not let NJS off unscathed whilst we are talking about lowering standards:
1) 12+ year employees paying 15K for a type rating ( OK, it was a 3yr interest free loan to the company ) for a fleet change.
2) B scale pay, circa 50K for a 717 effo.
But you do get to pretend you're a Qanats pilot
1) 12+ year employees paying 15K for a type rating ( OK, it was a 3yr interest free loan to the company ) for a fleet change.
2) B scale pay, circa 50K for a 717 effo.
But you do get to pretend you're a Qanats pilot
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Wookie, just remember the VB guys were the first ones to pay for their type ratings, so before you go slagging off at others, just remember who started all this rubbish in the first place??...
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Question for the guys/gals at V.
Do the 777's have a crew rest separate crew rest to the main cabin? As in a small bed down the back? I ask because I was told that the J* guys on the 330 just lie/sit in a comfy pax whereas the QF guys on the same type have a bed/bunk down the back somewhere.
How many hours do you do in the seat and then the bed? How does that work?
Just interested thats all. Not having a crack at anyone.
Do the 777's have a crew rest separate crew rest to the main cabin? As in a small bed down the back? I ask because I was told that the J* guys on the 330 just lie/sit in a comfy pax whereas the QF guys on the same type have a bed/bunk down the back somewhere.
How many hours do you do in the seat and then the bed? How does that work?
Just interested thats all. Not having a crack at anyone.
Unsure of V australia exact set up but I believe for the 300ER it's a fairly similar set up
Cathay
JetPhotos.Net Photo » B-KPE (CN: 36156) Cathay Pacific Airways Boeing 777-367ER by Colin Parker - The Hong Kong Spotters
Air France
JetPhotos.Net Photo » F-GZNA (CN: 35297) Air France Boeing 777-328ER by Pierre Dumas
Air India
JetPhotos.Net Photo » VT-ALN (CN: 36312) Air-India Boeing 777-337ER by Harri Koskinen
FAs have their own seperate ones further down the back
JetPhotos.Net Photo » B-KPE (CN: 36156) Cathay Pacific Airways Boeing 777-367ER by Colin Parker - The Hong Kong Spotters
Cathay
JetPhotos.Net Photo » B-KPE (CN: 36156) Cathay Pacific Airways Boeing 777-367ER by Colin Parker - The Hong Kong Spotters
Air France
JetPhotos.Net Photo » F-GZNA (CN: 35297) Air France Boeing 777-328ER by Pierre Dumas
Air India
JetPhotos.Net Photo » VT-ALN (CN: 36312) Air-India Boeing 777-337ER by Harri Koskinen
FAs have their own seperate ones further down the back
JetPhotos.Net Photo » B-KPE (CN: 36156) Cathay Pacific Airways Boeing 777-367ER by Colin Parker - The Hong Kong Spotters
At VA, CC have 8 Beds down the back in the roof, Tech have an area up front in the roof with 2 Buss type seats and behind that two beds. Same as the Cathay photos.