Launy Takeoff with no lights-Not QF...JQ!
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Launy Takeoff with no lights-Not QF...JQ!
This was kept very quiet.
Incident: Jetstar A320 at Launceston on Mar 12th 2008, night takeoff without runway lights
Looks like it happened due to task saturation and in no way was it intentional.
One has to ask why the QF 737 crew was charged with a criminal offence when this JQ incident were treated as it should have been; an operational safety incident with no suggestion of criminality?
Incident: Jetstar A320 at Launceston on Mar 12th 2008, night takeoff without runway lights
Looks like it happened due to task saturation and in no way was it intentional.
One has to ask why the QF 737 crew was charged with a criminal offence when this JQ incident were treated as it should have been; an operational safety incident with no suggestion of criminality?
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Maybe you didn't see it when it made the news last year. It wasn't kept particularly quiet.
I remember clearly reading, on this forum, the bleatings of those who cried double standards that the mainliners were being charged (a travesty, and contrary to the pursuit of aviation safety), while JQ's pilots were not.
Neither crew should! Instead there should be meaningful investigation conducted into mitigating the posibility of a repeat; I mean, really, why would two highly trained crews purposely take-off in the full knowledge that the runway lights weren't on?
Let us all hope that sanity and reason prevail with the B737 incident and the pilots concerned don't ever hear anything further about it.
I remember clearly reading, on this forum, the bleatings of those who cried double standards that the mainliners were being charged (a travesty, and contrary to the pursuit of aviation safety), while JQ's pilots were not.
Neither crew should! Instead there should be meaningful investigation conducted into mitigating the posibility of a repeat; I mean, really, why would two highly trained crews purposely take-off in the full knowledge that the runway lights weren't on?
Let us all hope that sanity and reason prevail with the B737 incident and the pilots concerned don't ever hear anything further about it.
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How bout spending some taxpayers money on something worthwhile instead of on dole bludgers and petty pointless court cases.
Anywhere we have RPT ops in largish commercial jets we should have a manned tower and radar. Not this BS do it yourself rubbish designed when man first started flying.
It all changes when we have a bingle or a near bingle. The Australian govt and companies such as QF are very reactionary - never very proactive.If they can get away without spending the money they will. (Maybe they call it affordable safety
)
ie Portable Radars introduced (Although they are not much use though if nobody is watching them) - or Canberra for QF where you can't fly in unless the tower is manned.
Anywhere we have RPT ops in largish commercial jets we should have a manned tower and radar. Not this BS do it yourself rubbish designed when man first started flying.
It all changes when we have a bingle or a near bingle. The Australian govt and companies such as QF are very reactionary - never very proactive.If they can get away without spending the money they will. (Maybe they call it affordable safety
) ie Portable Radars introduced (Although they are not much use though if nobody is watching them) - or Canberra for QF where you can't fly in unless the tower is manned.
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dole bludgers!!! I think Kevin 07 might be throwing a bit more money at middle class welfarers than the "dole bludgers". Talk about stereotyping - it's 2009 in the middle of the 'great recession' - typical Aussie redneck attitude through I guess.
Simple have the tower open for Jet RPT operations.
There's always the option of not flying if no tower service is available.....
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I have an idea!!
How about we put in place a system that if an RPT jet flies into an aerodrome, in a non controlled environment we have someone there on the ground that can turn on/off the lights, do a weather observation and a runway inspection prior to the jet arriving.
For safety sake, lets give each aerodrome a "bubble' of say 5000' and 15-20nm, where everyone flying into that area have to announce to the guy on the ground so he can determine, traffic conflictions and pass the pertinent info to the pilots.
He can even make the odd phone call for the pilots if needed, have a copy of all relevant NOTAMS and en-route weather to assist.
He/she may also have access to the internet/AFTN and be able to input changes to the flight plans etc.
How does that sound?
It used to happen once upon a time before Dick and his cronies got into power, and I may have blinkers on, but I don't see the Aussie system has really improved a lot since those days.
If someone mentions that the cost was prohibitive, hmmm, have the costs and charges gone down since then? Or are you paying more and more and getting less and less for that money spent?
In those days the controllers controlled, and the Flight Service guys did all that other stuff. No one was fatigued, or overloaded, management appreciated the staff and staff didn't outright loathe management.
Ahhhh, the simpler times of the good old days.
For safety sake, lets give each aerodrome a "bubble' of say 5000' and 15-20nm, where everyone flying into that area have to announce to the guy on the ground so he can determine, traffic conflictions and pass the pertinent info to the pilots.
He can even make the odd phone call for the pilots if needed, have a copy of all relevant NOTAMS and en-route weather to assist.
He/she may also have access to the internet/AFTN and be able to input changes to the flight plans etc.
How does that sound?
It used to happen once upon a time before Dick and his cronies got into power, and I may have blinkers on, but I don't see the Aussie system has really improved a lot since those days.
If someone mentions that the cost was prohibitive, hmmm, have the costs and charges gone down since then? Or are you paying more and more and getting less and less for that money spent?
In those days the controllers controlled, and the Flight Service guys did all that other stuff. No one was fatigued, or overloaded, management appreciated the staff and staff didn't outright loathe management.
Ahhhh, the simpler times of the good old days.
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typical Aussie redneck attitude through I guess.
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Perhaps some of the 17 billion dollars saved by Mr Smith could be used to employ another controller at Launceston so that the tower was manned to midnight and extended if necessary to cover RPT flights
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on another side note launy tower has finally gone back to full coverage this week. Handy with all the fog about to.
show me the $$$ and where to sign.
Jetstar XXX, Launy ground, vis reducing 700m in fog, 6 lights visible 32L threshold & do you want coffee & biscuits on arrival?
How about we put in place a system that if an RPT jet flies into an aerodrome, in a non controlled environment we have someone there on the ground that can turn on/off the lights, do a weather observation and a runway inspection prior to the jet arriving.
For safety sake, lets give each aerodrome a "bubble' of say 5000' and 15-20nm, where everyone flying into that area have to announce to the guy on the ground so he can determine, traffic conflictions and pass the pertinent info to the pilots.
He can even make the odd phone call for the pilots if needed, have a copy of all relevant NOTAMS and en-route weather to assist.
He/she may also have access to the internet/AFTN and be able to input changes to the flight plans etc.
How does that sound?
For safety sake, lets give each aerodrome a "bubble' of say 5000' and 15-20nm, where everyone flying into that area have to announce to the guy on the ground so he can determine, traffic conflictions and pass the pertinent info to the pilots.
He can even make the odd phone call for the pilots if needed, have a copy of all relevant NOTAMS and en-route weather to assist.
He/she may also have access to the internet/AFTN and be able to input changes to the flight plans etc.
How does that sound?
Jetstar XXX, Launy ground, vis reducing 700m in fog, 6 lights visible 32L threshold & do you want coffee & biscuits on arrival?
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Come on folks... Parliament is busy debating the very important issue of utes!!!
Would not want them wasting their time taking care of trivial issues such as aviation safety!
Hell, they have not even got time for the GFC! Kev has already given away all the money in the Government piggy bank!!!
Cue the circus music...
Would not want them wasting their time taking care of trivial issues such as aviation safety!
Hell, they have not even got time for the GFC! Kev has already given away all the money in the Government piggy bank!!!
Cue the circus music...
Having the airlines' ground service people turn on runway lights is not a bad idea (don't know about met obs). I know of at least one regional flight that very recently departed a regional airport after sundown (still some ambient light) without the PAL lights activated.
Mountains to the west made it very dark very quickly so it may not have technically been after last light but dark enough to need headlights if you were driving.
The ground staff are there and getting paid anyway, so why not?
At least have them make sure that the lights have been activated before departure as a back up to the flight crew.
Mountains to the west made it very dark very quickly so it may not have technically been after last light but dark enough to need headlights if you were driving.
The ground staff are there and getting paid anyway, so why not?
At least have them make sure that the lights have been activated before departure as a back up to the flight crew.
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The street lights go on automatically at sundown and stay on.
Do the same for runway lights. Leave the suckers on when its dark! No people required and no half assed radio keying system to fail.
Do the same for runway lights. Leave the suckers on when its dark! No people required and no half assed radio keying system to fail.
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Capt K,
Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were JQ bashing - I didn't think you were, nor did I want my reply to sound so.
Here's an ABC link dated March 2008. There are a few more if you google it.
Spotlight again on Launceston Airport over safety concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were JQ bashing - I didn't think you were, nor did I want my reply to sound so.
Here's an ABC link dated March 2008. There are a few more if you google it.
Spotlight again on Launceston Airport over safety concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Leaving runway lights on for extended periods at night tends to attract lots of insects around the light fittings, which then attracts birds such as curlews, and they tend to become birdstrike victims, often causing very costly damage damage to airframe/engines because of their size and stupidity.
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Just a quick question.
Scenario. Two(2) a/c arrive at LT(or any other Class D for that matter).
One a/c happens to be a 76 seat EMB170, and the other a 74 seat Q400.
What is with this JET RPT wank. Are you saying that the lives and safety of the pax on the Q400 are not as valuable as those on the 170, or the 12 people in the Metro or 8 in the Chieftan?
RPT is RPT. Whether it's a PA31/C404 doing RPT or an A380.
If a Tower is provided it should be manned for ALL arrivals and departures. Simple as that. That was why it was built and that is why it is called Controlled Airspace.
Scenario. Two(2) a/c arrive at LT(or any other Class D for that matter).
One a/c happens to be a 76 seat EMB170, and the other a 74 seat Q400.
What is with this JET RPT wank. Are you saying that the lives and safety of the pax on the Q400 are not as valuable as those on the 170, or the 12 people in the Metro or 8 in the Chieftan?
RPT is RPT. Whether it's a PA31/C404 doing RPT or an A380.
If a Tower is provided it should be manned for ALL arrivals and departures. Simple as that. That was why it was built and that is why it is called Controlled Airspace.
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Jet wank???
Maybe some day son but with that attitude I doubt it. Airlines more than pay for the service clown. Do you have any knowledge of the industry at all? Run along now.
Maybe some day son but with that attitude I doubt it. Airlines more than pay for the service clown. Do you have any knowledge of the industry at all? Run along now.
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If a Tower is provided it should be manned for ALL arrivals and departures. Simple as that.
Do you expect a controller to sit around the tower until 2am for one late flight????