QF A330 servere turbulence
You get alot of dry cells in this area, ie decaying TS.They do not always show up on radar, especially in this new 'auto tilt' mode. I go to manual and 'max'. You still have to be careful not to get ground return, and turn down the lights and look out the window. Its very easy to clip something not showing clearly.
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Ok, so far no-one from QF has answered either question.
We've had some speculation that Mr. Whitehead's statement about the wx radar might be inaccurate. But no refutation.
We've had some opinion about whether it would be wise to fly back from hongkers without it. But no denial.
We've even discovered the rules may not be clear.
However, at the moment, the silence from the QF camp is speaking volumes. At least the poo-pooing of the story has stopped. I have no axe to grind, BTW. Just interested.
We've had some speculation that Mr. Whitehead's statement about the wx radar might be inaccurate. But no refutation.
We've had some opinion about whether it would be wise to fly back from hongkers without it. But no denial.
We've even discovered the rules may not be clear.
However, at the moment, the silence from the QF camp is speaking volumes. At least the poo-pooing of the story has stopped. I have no axe to grind, BTW. Just interested.
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Couple of thoughts
It has been reliably reported About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases that the captain gave a spiel around top of descent explaining that weather radar is good at defining rain, and not designed to paint ice crystals so The green Goblin is spot on the money.
The identification of the pilot from the start is not, in my opinion, any sort of problem. All incidents which attract mejia attention inevitably have crew names made available, and the good guys (Sulleberger, Moody for example) become recognisable names. It is media friendly to identify the captain early, and QF are trying very hard to be media friendly. That's why the QF press release preceded the PER arrival. It was a largely successful attempt to get the facts out before the bogan version became "truth".
FWIW
It has been reliably reported About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases that the captain gave a spiel around top of descent explaining that weather radar is good at defining rain, and not designed to paint ice crystals so The green Goblin is spot on the money.
Originally Posted by The green Goblin
I would assume that the flight crew may have issued an apology to the punters and explained that wx radar is not too good at detecting CAT.
Punters walk away hearing that the wx radar was not working and that is the reason why they encountered the CAT.
Punters walk away hearing that the wx radar was not working and that is the reason why they encountered the CAT.
FWIW
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Ok, so for the semantic morons out there, perhaps 'legislated' was not the best word choice. In my defence however, I refer you to Gen 0.1-4....
4.6 Throughout the AIP the term “should” implies that all users are encouraged to conform with the applicable procedure. The verbs “must” and “shall” are synonymous and mean that the applicable procedure is mandatory and supported by regulations or orders. The word “must” is preferred over “shall” and is used almost exclusively throughout the AIP Book.
For example:
IFR RPT and CHTR aircraft which are required to be crewed by two or more pilots must be fitted with an approved airborne weather radar system.
The rules are clear.
4.6 Throughout the AIP the term “should” implies that all users are encouraged to conform with the applicable procedure. The verbs “must” and “shall” are synonymous and mean that the applicable procedure is mandatory and supported by regulations or orders. The word “must” is preferred over “shall” and is used almost exclusively throughout the AIP Book.
For example:
IFR RPT and CHTR aircraft which are required to be crewed by two or more pilots must be fitted with an approved airborne weather radar system.
The rules are clear.
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Maybe we should position a Journo on every flight so that when anything goes wrong they are on the spot to accurately report it, they could even swipe the safety card so they have an accurate picture of what aircraft they are in!!
(Oh....after the crew ran away of course!)
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Thanks for the link, Wod.
It's just the cynic in me wonders why they don't issue unequivocal statements? Such as "The aircraft was fitted with a functioning wx radar, however....." Phrasing it like this
doesn't do it for me. eg "I had a car accident today. I wasn't injured. Aren't airbags wonderful?" implies that my car is fitted with airbags. It may not be, and if pressed I could deny that I said it was.
Or this
Apart from the pax reports and people bouncing off the ceiling, which do suggest things.
It's just the cynic in me wonders why they don't issue unequivocal statements? Such as "The aircraft was fitted with a functioning wx radar, however....." Phrasing it like this
"This convective turbulence is not normally visible to weather radar. At top of descent into Perth, the Captain explained this to passengers and also referred to the radar being designed to detect moisture but not ice crystals.
Or this
"Some media reports have suggested the aircraft was travelling through thunderstorms at the time of the incident. There may have been thunderstorms in the vicinity, but there is nothing to suggest the aircraft was actually flying through any storm activity."
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ferris I agree they could do better, but I'm just pleased that they are at least trying to get ahead of the game.
In an earlier life the Media people would have consulted me, among many others, to "idiot check" the proposed release before pressing the button.
I think they are still learning what they lost when they dismantled "old networks".
But that, as they say, is another story.
In an earlier life the Media people would have consulted me, among many others, to "idiot check" the proposed release before pressing the button.
I think they are still learning what they lost when they dismantled "old networks".
But that, as they say, is another story.
Nunc est bibendum
Apart from the pax reports and people bouncing off the ceiling, which do suggest things.
Perhaps the reasons why no one from QF is making comment on PPRUNE about the status of the WX radar is because none of us have the foggiest as to the status because none of us were there!
Just as the statement doesn't confirm the WX radar was working, the comments by the Captain at ToD seem appropriate for what happened. Had the wx radar not been working I suspect an entirely different PA would have been made.
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Originally Posted by VH-UFO
Dont make out that passengers are knuckledragging idiots who just love to ignore all the rules, because the majority aren't and in this case they aren't breaking any rules.
I could state here, "hellllloooo? hellllloooo?" (taps said pilot on the forehead). Is there anybody home? Why didnt the pilot turn on the fasten seatbelt sign?
Is it compulsory to wear seat belts when the seatbelt sign is out in the cruise?
No its not. Its advised to wear them, but its not compulsory, so if your not going to enforce such a rule then dont come on here implying all pax are boneheads because they are not wearing them.
No its not. Its advised to wear them, but its not compulsory, so if your not going to enforce such a rule then dont come on here implying all pax are boneheads because they are not wearing them.
Incidents like this will always happen because at some stage there will always be someone heading for the toilet or stretching there legs (you cant expect someone to sit in an airline seat for 8+ hours).
Sh*t a brick. Breath.......in......out......in.....out. Easy does it Dutchy.......
Last edited by DutchRoll; 23rd Jun 2009 at 12:36.
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The A/C ran into some CAT, PAX who for what ever reason were not wearing seatbelts got belted, this has been happening since Pontious was a pilot, and will continue to do so, so what is the news? And who the hell gave out the Skippers name? Is there one of you out there who has not run into some severe turbulence at some stage? Probably not. And once more the poor old bus, one of the most honest A/C in the air, gets another serve from the press, who would not know a APU from a camels ar#e.
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I have read this entire thread and feel dumber for the experience.
Note to self,
As NSU said
Correct
The A330 QF fleet has 2 WX radar systems (they share a common antena), 1 is permitted to be inop for a limitted time as a permissable unservicabilty for a limitted time (MEL)but that was not the case as both were serviceable at the time of this incident.
Not that it would have mattered if CAT was the cause !
As teresa green said
This should have been the 2nd or 3rd post on this thread and then locked closed. Pilots name should not have been released and PAX in my varied experience are "knuckledragging idiots " who pack their brains in their checked luggage only to re-assemble themselves apon arrival at destination.
Apologies if this offends
For some insight on WX and its use/application try this link
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/37673...her-radar.html
Note to self,
As NSU said
The WXR was serviceable
CorrectThe A330 QF fleet has 2 WX radar systems (they share a common antena), 1 is permitted to be inop for a limitted time as a permissable unservicabilty for a limitted time (MEL)but that was not the case as both were serviceable at the time of this incident.
Not that it would have mattered if CAT was the cause !
As teresa green said
The A/C ran into some CAT, PAX who for what ever reason were not wearing seatbelts got belted, this has been happening since Pontious was a pilot, and will continue to do so, so what is the news? And who the hell gave out the Skippers name? Is there one of you out there who has not run into some severe turbulence at some stage? Probably not. And once more the poor old bus, one of the most honest A/C in the air, gets another serve from the press, who would not know a APU from a camels ar#e
Apologies if this offends
For some insight on WX and its use/application try this link
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/37673...her-radar.html
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I agree.
The fact that the aircraft involved was an A330 is only of significance to the ignorant... ladies and gentlemen of the press; that means you.
The Wx radar on the the A330 is no better or worse than any other LH QF aircraft. (Except for the radar that was delivered on the ex-BA 767's which was truly atrocious.)
The naming of the Captain by QF media is being addressed by AIPA, it should never have happened and the person responsible needs a swift kick for it.
Apart from that it appears to be a "routine" turbulence incident caused by a moonless night and a convective cloud that showed up poorly on the Wx radar or was masked by terrain; it happens.
As always in these incidents, the people who got hurt are the people who routinely buckle up in their Hyundai Excel doing 60 kph going to the corner shop, but for some reason don't seem to feel the need to do so in a metal tube barrelling through the sky at 1000kph.
The fact that the aircraft involved was an A330 is only of significance to the ignorant... ladies and gentlemen of the press; that means you.
The Wx radar on the the A330 is no better or worse than any other LH QF aircraft. (Except for the radar that was delivered on the ex-BA 767's which was truly atrocious.)
The naming of the Captain by QF media is being addressed by AIPA, it should never have happened and the person responsible needs a swift kick for it.
Apart from that it appears to be a "routine" turbulence incident caused by a moonless night and a convective cloud that showed up poorly on the Wx radar or was masked by terrain; it happens.
As always in these incidents, the people who got hurt are the people who routinely buckle up in their Hyundai Excel doing 60 kph going to the corner shop, but for some reason don't seem to feel the need to do so in a metal tube barrelling through the sky at 1000kph.