Airbus becoming too "Pilot-Proofed"
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I think that Jetstar obviously has had many quality pilots join their ranks as captains, however the following anecdote may be illuminating.
I recently met a J* A330 captain in a foreign port and we got to talking. He asked me how many times I had taken control of the A/C from the FO's I flew with. I have had a QF command for well over 10 years now and the answer was, never. He expressed surprise and recounted 8 separate incidents where he was required to take over in the last 2 years. This pilot was ex-Emirates btw.
We just sort of looked at each other for a while and that was that. Take anything from that you like.
I recently met a J* A330 captain in a foreign port and we got to talking. He asked me how many times I had taken control of the A/C from the FO's I flew with. I have had a QF command for well over 10 years now and the answer was, never. He expressed surprise and recounted 8 separate incidents where he was required to take over in the last 2 years. This pilot was ex-Emirates btw.
We just sort of looked at each other for a while and that was that. Take anything from that you like.
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I think that Jetstar obviously has had many quality pilots join their ranks as captains, however the following anecdote may be illuminating.
I recently met a J* A330 captain in a foreign port and we got to talking. He asked me how many times I had taken control of the A/C from the FO's I flew with. I have had a QF command for well over 10 years now and the answer was, never. He expressed surprise and recounted 8 separate incidents where he was required to take over in the last 2 years. This pilot was ex-Emirates btw.
We just sort of looked at each other for a while and that was that. Take anything from that you like.
I recently met a J* A330 captain in a foreign port and we got to talking. He asked me how many times I had taken control of the A/C from the FO's I flew with. I have had a QF command for well over 10 years now and the answer was, never. He expressed surprise and recounted 8 separate incidents where he was required to take over in the last 2 years. This pilot was ex-Emirates btw.
We just sort of looked at each other for a while and that was that. Take anything from that you like.
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Here we go again.
This was about a post by the professor telling us that training is not really neccessary and should be cut back to a minimum.....
If J* was the parent airline the professor would be telling us to cut training back to the level of some third world airline that doesn't have a simulator at all.....to save money.
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Lowerlobe always falls for the same trap of arguing over issues that have not been raised. Please read my post carefully, at no stage did I say that training costs should be reduced "regardless of the effect they have..."
"sim sessions are a luxury and we can reduce it to whatever minimum level a pencil pusher deems adequate."
No, I didn't say this either.
"So he finishes by telling us that because 'quality' training is more expensive we should have no problems reducing it to a minimum...."
Or this.
"I have a question for you Professor....what do you think of the revelations of the person who headed Sydney Ferries..."
I am not really sure what relevance this comment has to the debate. You are clearly blinded by an irrational hatred of the people who manage the company you work for. In fact your post indicates that maybe you are debating the wrong person about the wrong issue.
"This was about a post by the professor telling us that training is not really neccessary and should be cut back to a minimum....."
I think this inference went clean out of the ballpark.
Breakfast B
"Perhaps the good Professor could cast his eye over the report & conclude that there is no correlation between the quality of training & an RPT aircraft ending up...."
I am not totally clear what you are getting at here with this comment. I suspect that you are barking up the same tree as lowerlobe.
I would argue that there is a clear correlation between a well-trained crew and subsequent flight safety. It appears to me that the Jetstar crew were lacking in "quality" training with the result quite obvious to see.
You have both missed my point. I have not suggested cutting corners in training to simply save money. However, it appears to me that you both assume that the QF training department produces a better product than xyz LCC simply because the QF candidate spends more time in the simulator.
My question to you is. Have either of you been through a training course at a low cost carrier?
"sim sessions are a luxury and we can reduce it to whatever minimum level a pencil pusher deems adequate."
No, I didn't say this either.
"So he finishes by telling us that because 'quality' training is more expensive we should have no problems reducing it to a minimum...."
Or this.
"I have a question for you Professor....what do you think of the revelations of the person who headed Sydney Ferries..."
I am not really sure what relevance this comment has to the debate. You are clearly blinded by an irrational hatred of the people who manage the company you work for. In fact your post indicates that maybe you are debating the wrong person about the wrong issue.
"This was about a post by the professor telling us that training is not really neccessary and should be cut back to a minimum....."
I think this inference went clean out of the ballpark.
Breakfast B
"Perhaps the good Professor could cast his eye over the report & conclude that there is no correlation between the quality of training & an RPT aircraft ending up...."
I am not totally clear what you are getting at here with this comment. I suspect that you are barking up the same tree as lowerlobe.
I would argue that there is a clear correlation between a well-trained crew and subsequent flight safety. It appears to me that the Jetstar crew were lacking in "quality" training with the result quite obvious to see.
You have both missed my point. I have not suggested cutting corners in training to simply save money. However, it appears to me that you both assume that the QF training department produces a better product than xyz LCC simply because the QF candidate spends more time in the simulator.
My question to you is. Have either of you been through a training course at a low cost carrier?
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I would suggest that the fact that JQ is part of/under the auspices of QF, that QF does indeed oversee and have a great deal to say about the training/checking/endorsement protocols that exist in/at JQ.
Qf certainly does with QLINK ,so I would imagine the same applies to Jetstar. Or if not, why not. After all JQ is QANTAS like it or not.
All you guys really need to get over it. QF hating JQ because of what it stands for(Erosion of T&Cs and hence ALL the growth ie lost opportunites at QF etc) and JQ hating QF because truthfully, all the very senior JQ guys NEVER got a job at QF and now its time to "stick it up QF guys" etc etc.
Don't tell me this is not the case because we all know it is.
Get over it and move on. The only people it pisses off are yourselves. Nobody else gives a toss.It's not worth the grief. We all have a job. If you don't like it leave.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Qf certainly does with QLINK ,so I would imagine the same applies to Jetstar. Or if not, why not. After all JQ is QANTAS like it or not.
All you guys really need to get over it. QF hating JQ because of what it stands for(Erosion of T&Cs and hence ALL the growth ie lost opportunites at QF etc) and JQ hating QF because truthfully, all the very senior JQ guys NEVER got a job at QF and now its time to "stick it up QF guys" etc etc.
Don't tell me this is not the case because we all know it is.
Get over it and move on. The only people it pisses off are yourselves. Nobody else gives a toss.It's not worth the grief. We all have a job. If you don't like it leave.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Negative teresa...ex GA
Your point is?
Your point is?
Seasonally Adjusted
QF hating JQ because of what it stands for(Erosion of T&Cs and hence ALL the growth ie lost opportunites at QF etc) and JQ hating QF because truthfully, all the very senior JQ guys NEVER got a job at QF and now its time to "stick it up QF guys" etc etc.
