Jet* NZ Interview.
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RAD ALT..
Not too shabby..
Its an absolute joke..Dont try to tart it up and make it sound like a fair and good deal!! You shouldnt have to be doing at least 85 hours a month just to make your wage worthwhile..
Leave the tarting up for the old girls down the back..
Not too shabby..
Its an absolute joke..Dont try to tart it up and make it sound like a fair and good deal!! You shouldnt have to be doing at least 85 hours a month just to make your wage worthwhile..
Leave the tarting up for the old girls down the back..
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Beero,
Welcome to the real world! The world in which the old ways are being seen for what they always were - a trough for all to gorge themselves at.
Sure, I'd like to work under 'old' rules (and, who knows, perhaps I have in the past...) where you'd bid permanent reserve because the contracts had to productivity clauses in them. That way you'd get the 'BIG' bucks paid to you for your day job, while you're out making more money from some business venture on the side!
Give me a big fricken break already!
Wake up and smell the roses (a little on the JetA side of fragrant for my tastes).
No one's coming to any of you malingering layabouts on bended knees begging you to work for JQ (in fact, if I knew who any of you were, I'd beg on bended knee that we didn't take you) if you think the work's gonna be too hard on you!
Keep flying your old clunker jets, or your turbo props, or your FS consoles (and keep raking in those 'big bucks' that you obviously are), for all any of those 'real', aspiring drivers care. No disrespect to those within our small community who still fly whatever they're on and are happy doing it. I thought we all got into the game because we wanted to fly...all the rest that comes with the job can be thrown into the 'details' bucket, including pay and conditions.
You either want it, or you don't. If you do, good luck to you. If you don't, then don't be cynical and puerile about it. If you really think that by absenting yourselves from the process, you will make JQ improve the contract, then let's all wait and see.
Welcome to the real world! The world in which the old ways are being seen for what they always were - a trough for all to gorge themselves at.
Sure, I'd like to work under 'old' rules (and, who knows, perhaps I have in the past...) where you'd bid permanent reserve because the contracts had to productivity clauses in them. That way you'd get the 'BIG' bucks paid to you for your day job, while you're out making more money from some business venture on the side!
Give me a big fricken break already!
Wake up and smell the roses (a little on the JetA side of fragrant for my tastes).
No one's coming to any of you malingering layabouts on bended knees begging you to work for JQ (in fact, if I knew who any of you were, I'd beg on bended knee that we didn't take you) if you think the work's gonna be too hard on you!
Keep flying your old clunker jets, or your turbo props, or your FS consoles (and keep raking in those 'big bucks' that you obviously are), for all any of those 'real', aspiring drivers care. No disrespect to those within our small community who still fly whatever they're on and are happy doing it. I thought we all got into the game because we wanted to fly...all the rest that comes with the job can be thrown into the 'details' bucket, including pay and conditions.
You either want it, or you don't. If you do, good luck to you. If you don't, then don't be cynical and puerile about it. If you really think that by absenting yourselves from the process, you will make JQ improve the contract, then let's all wait and see.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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fruet mich, you clown, I have not worked for jetstar, nor will I ever. To make a comment like that , just shows you are out of touch. 85 hrs is not uncommon now, ( we do that every month, albeit it both shorthaul as well as regional flying), and have done for the better part of almost 20yrs!! (what war...!!??)
I agreed with what rad alt says, if you dont like the conditions on offer, dont take the job.Its real simple... (if you ever left enzed and worked contracts, you would know this, after all, no one is making you join.) It sounds to me, like you are an unhappy jitconnect f/o, who has never done any hard yards, has managed to get his little shiny jet gig at home, and now is the expert on terms and conditions.
I am , as I have said many times , not agreeing with whats on offer, but if guys are leaving other airlines (pacblue etc), they are not going to change them now.The reason I have shown some interest in this topic, I have many mates both kiwi and australian who have/are looking at returning home and have been looking at this job.
To say that the guys who accept these conditions will get a cold reception is silly, as afterall you did.( sorry jitconnects were alot worse when they started, as were impulse/J* australias)
My advise to guys looking at it, if YOU want the job, take it. The conditions will only get better over time.
I agreed with what rad alt says, if you dont like the conditions on offer, dont take the job.Its real simple... (if you ever left enzed and worked contracts, you would know this, after all, no one is making you join.) It sounds to me, like you are an unhappy jitconnect f/o, who has never done any hard yards, has managed to get his little shiny jet gig at home, and now is the expert on terms and conditions.
I am , as I have said many times , not agreeing with whats on offer, but if guys are leaving other airlines (pacblue etc), they are not going to change them now.The reason I have shown some interest in this topic, I have many mates both kiwi and australian who have/are looking at returning home and have been looking at this job.
To say that the guys who accept these conditions will get a cold reception is silly, as afterall you did.( sorry jitconnects were alot worse when they started, as were impulse/J* australias)
My advise to guys looking at it, if YOU want the job, take it. The conditions will only get better over time.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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RAD ALT..
Pay and conditions...In the detail bucket!! So we are all doing this cause we want to fly?? Well i certainly dont go to work to fly,i go to work to be paid as i dont consider letting the aircraft take me from A to B with the Autopilot on flying.
Whilst i go to work i dont like seeing the conditions going backwards rather then forwards cause of the likes of people like you...If you are doing it to fly(after all pay is a minor detail) go and actually pole an aircraft round(not a 320) and stop ruining what was once a financially rewarding industry by accepting sub standard pay and conditions..
People soon in GA will no longer have anything to look forward to in a monetary sense once they have done there time actually poling an aircraft round as they will be going onto a 320,which they paid for and earning less then some probably were in GA..Why bother leaving GA?? Oh its that big jet thing isnt it..
Ps dont worry about bending over and begging for them not to take me as there is not a chance in hell i will ever submitt an application to them..Not only that i would hate for the numerous pineapples to fallout your arse in doing so..
Right im going back to layabout and fly my FS console...
Pay and conditions...In the detail bucket!! So we are all doing this cause we want to fly?? Well i certainly dont go to work to fly,i go to work to be paid as i dont consider letting the aircraft take me from A to B with the Autopilot on flying.
Whilst i go to work i dont like seeing the conditions going backwards rather then forwards cause of the likes of people like you...If you are doing it to fly(after all pay is a minor detail) go and actually pole an aircraft round(not a 320) and stop ruining what was once a financially rewarding industry by accepting sub standard pay and conditions..
People soon in GA will no longer have anything to look forward to in a monetary sense once they have done there time actually poling an aircraft round as they will be going onto a 320,which they paid for and earning less then some probably were in GA..Why bother leaving GA?? Oh its that big jet thing isnt it..
Ps dont worry about bending over and begging for them not to take me as there is not a chance in hell i will ever submitt an application to them..Not only that i would hate for the numerous pineapples to fallout your arse in doing so..
Right im going back to layabout and fly my FS console...
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I am going to except crap conditions for the good of my family
FFS... WHERE WILL THE BOTTOM END????????? PILOTS ARE $%^KED... I'm getting more and more embarrassed calling my self one.
ARE we Professionals or not???
I reckon we should be bringing back some sought of BLACK list for weak pricks who think they are pilots who take these positions.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU KIWI"S???? Stand up and make a stand... support your unions, and draw a line in the sand (or snow) in the words od Daryl Kerrigan "tell them to get stuffed"....
Join Date: Aug 2008
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The only reason Jetstar are doing this is that they know Kiwis will work for less...then in 12 months time, the Kiwis will be complaining about how the Aussies get paid more than them!!!
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Charlie the expert. Yep, bring back a blacklist and that will solve everything. Just remember to put all the pacblue and jetconnect pilots on the list as well, as they are working for less than air NZ.. Actually, you had better put the jetstar Oz pilots on it to, as they are working for much less than qantas guys.
To make such a comment, when there is already an airline in new zealand with worse conditions than jetstar are offering, is rediculous. (aka pacblue), especially while its full of kiwis.... So whos actually bringing down the conditions?????
To make such a comment, when there is already an airline in new zealand with worse conditions than jetstar are offering, is rediculous. (aka pacblue), especially while its full of kiwis.... So whos actually bringing down the conditions?????
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Bitch Bitch Bitch
Even if the pay in NZ was half good - I still would NOT apply for a job in NZ because there is tooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo much BITCHING.
I enjoy contracting around the world. 6mths here/there/anywhere. I have flown with 26 nationalities and have held license's in 8 countries. I enjoy my 6mths back in NZ every year, but NEVER would dream of getting a NZ license - God forbid - I would have to do 100hrs Line Training AKL-WLG-AKL-CHC-AKL.
I'd go start raving mad.
Perhaps thats the reason you all BITCH BITCH BITCH
I enjoy contracting around the world. 6mths here/there/anywhere. I have flown with 26 nationalities and have held license's in 8 countries. I enjoy my 6mths back in NZ every year, but NEVER would dream of getting a NZ license - God forbid - I would have to do 100hrs Line Training AKL-WLG-AKL-CHC-AKL.
I'd go start raving mad.
Perhaps thats the reason you all BITCH BITCH BITCH
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Piggy, hehe that hit a raw nerve! sorry mate, bit below the belt. It just seemed a little strange how supportive you are towards these crappy T&C's.
I'm not sure you'll have any mates left if they know the terms and conditions on offer back home and that you are quite supportive of them? 85hrs credit in Aussie would not be a lot of flying.
Try doing 85hrs a month on just MEL-CBR sectors or even SYD-CBR sectors. Thats about all these kiwi crews will be doing, sector times that is. Not long. I would say you would be doing very well to acheive 85hrs per month doing that.
Jetstar are touting their contract around saying it's a great contract because of the incentive pay. Current CHC based Jitconnect pilots do about 65hrs a month and are working 18 days in a 28 day roster.
So as you can see, it will take at least a couple of tasmans per month which would bring it up to 20 days in a 28 days roster to get your 85hrs. Mind you, Jetstar are quick to show you how you can acheive the 85hrs by posting a roster showing how it can be done in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in one.
I'm not to sure your friends wanting to return home from their wonderful contracts abroad would be happy working that amount of days per month for that amount of money? Or perhaps I'm wrong?
Rad Alt, how many days are you guys working a month a Jetstar Aus? I heard you get 11 rostered days a month for the first 6 months and 10 for the second? Maybe I'm wrong. But that makes you 2-3days a roster better off and you still work you 85hrs a month?
Also Rad Alt, why are you so passionate about seeing a professional pilots salary decreased? I'm sorry mate, it's very confusing why a professional pilot would support that? That just doesn't compute? You're very vocal on this site about this. Are we not all in this industry together where we've worked our buts off. We all beg, steel and borrow every little spare penny just so we can afford an hours flying. Then we work our ass's off working for some piss ass tin pot operator getting raped for all we've got just to get some hours for our first real turboprop job. In the end we have you tell us all to stop our whinging because we want to be paid a fair wage for our professionalism and experience gained from many years in the industry at sub standard salaries whilst our friends all get ahead in other industries. Yes we all got into flying because we love it and would not want to do anything else. Would it not be fair for Kiwis to earn the same money as Australian based Jetstar pilots but in NZD? I mean common mate, fair friken dinkum!?
All I have said all along is we all just need to say no. Plain and simple. All these under paid jet jobs in NZ are Australian airlines flogging the kiwis because we kiwis accept what they offer. It's time we shoved a pinneapple or two up their ass!
Peace
I'm not sure you'll have any mates left if they know the terms and conditions on offer back home and that you are quite supportive of them? 85hrs credit in Aussie would not be a lot of flying.
Try doing 85hrs a month on just MEL-CBR sectors or even SYD-CBR sectors. Thats about all these kiwi crews will be doing, sector times that is. Not long. I would say you would be doing very well to acheive 85hrs per month doing that.
Jetstar are touting their contract around saying it's a great contract because of the incentive pay. Current CHC based Jitconnect pilots do about 65hrs a month and are working 18 days in a 28 day roster.
So as you can see, it will take at least a couple of tasmans per month which would bring it up to 20 days in a 28 days roster to get your 85hrs. Mind you, Jetstar are quick to show you how you can acheive the 85hrs by posting a roster showing how it can be done in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in one.
I'm not to sure your friends wanting to return home from their wonderful contracts abroad would be happy working that amount of days per month for that amount of money? Or perhaps I'm wrong?
Rad Alt, how many days are you guys working a month a Jetstar Aus? I heard you get 11 rostered days a month for the first 6 months and 10 for the second? Maybe I'm wrong. But that makes you 2-3days a roster better off and you still work you 85hrs a month?
Also Rad Alt, why are you so passionate about seeing a professional pilots salary decreased? I'm sorry mate, it's very confusing why a professional pilot would support that? That just doesn't compute? You're very vocal on this site about this. Are we not all in this industry together where we've worked our buts off. We all beg, steel and borrow every little spare penny just so we can afford an hours flying. Then we work our ass's off working for some piss ass tin pot operator getting raped for all we've got just to get some hours for our first real turboprop job. In the end we have you tell us all to stop our whinging because we want to be paid a fair wage for our professionalism and experience gained from many years in the industry at sub standard salaries whilst our friends all get ahead in other industries. Yes we all got into flying because we love it and would not want to do anything else. Would it not be fair for Kiwis to earn the same money as Australian based Jetstar pilots but in NZD? I mean common mate, fair friken dinkum!?
All I have said all along is we all just need to say no. Plain and simple. All these under paid jet jobs in NZ are Australian airlines flogging the kiwis because we kiwis accept what they offer. It's time we shoved a pinneapple or two up their ass!
Peace
Last edited by Fruet Mich; 9th May 2009 at 06:14.
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Fruity, my little germanic friend,
You've (unwittingly, I presume) misrepresented what I'm vocal/passionate about; it's not about wanting to see professional pilots' salaries decreased! When have I said that? Why would I say that? Like I said, I'd love to be earing big, BIG money. But I'm earning alright money, so I'm not complaining about my lot - had I been a more patient man, I might have been able to earn alot more given time, but I couldn't cope with the 'means' to the 'end'. So I jumped ship at the first opportunity.
It's what I meant about choosing lifestyle; I looked at the contract, discussed it with the Minister for Home Affairs, talked about the pay, and decided it was better than being woefully unhappy where I was (even though I was earning the 'big' bucks).
What I am passionate about is some people's views (yours included) about those pilots who choose to apply to work for Jetstar on the current contract.
Has it occurred to you that the contract on offer now, may not be the one you're on in the long term? The contract that was in place at JQ when I joined was nothing to rave about. But a few short years later, although still not perfect, it's alot better than it was.
So now that JQ is starting a NZ operation, why would they offer more than they feel they need to? The market will sort out what the acceptable minimum is.
And that's really the point; look to the future when deciding whether or not to take the opportunity offered today. Those who can see past their bulging hip pockets may well see a future where negotiation and compromise result in a improvements to pay and conditions.
Those who join now will get all the benefits of any future increase in P and C's while having benefited from being at the company for a while, ie their spot on the seniority list.
And to answer your question about days off, yes we do have 10/11 days off per month here. And yes, although it varies across bases/types/ranks, alot of pilots still do 85 hours + each month. That's because when the new roster protocol came in, it did so at the same time as roster-pairings were re-evaluated so that we would all work longer days to achieve the days off. Another example of negotiated compromise helping both sides of the table. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it should be recognised as for the good that it is.
Again, it's everyone's individual choice; get in at the start and enjoy the benefits of being near the top of the seniority list while waiting for P & C's to get better, or wait until they do before you take the plunge and then have to wait so much longer for those same benefits (ie promotion/base allocations/leave slots/etc).
And as for earning the same as we do? Yes, I believe you NZers should earn the same as we do; If we earn ?,000s in AUD, then you guys should earn at least the same figure in NZD. And that's the crux - if the NZ JQ pilots fly the hours that's expected, then that will roughly be the case.
Peace? Nay, Peace AND Love, brother.
You've (unwittingly, I presume) misrepresented what I'm vocal/passionate about; it's not about wanting to see professional pilots' salaries decreased! When have I said that? Why would I say that? Like I said, I'd love to be earing big, BIG money. But I'm earning alright money, so I'm not complaining about my lot - had I been a more patient man, I might have been able to earn alot more given time, but I couldn't cope with the 'means' to the 'end'. So I jumped ship at the first opportunity.
It's what I meant about choosing lifestyle; I looked at the contract, discussed it with the Minister for Home Affairs, talked about the pay, and decided it was better than being woefully unhappy where I was (even though I was earning the 'big' bucks).
What I am passionate about is some people's views (yours included) about those pilots who choose to apply to work for Jetstar on the current contract.
Has it occurred to you that the contract on offer now, may not be the one you're on in the long term? The contract that was in place at JQ when I joined was nothing to rave about. But a few short years later, although still not perfect, it's alot better than it was.
So now that JQ is starting a NZ operation, why would they offer more than they feel they need to? The market will sort out what the acceptable minimum is.
And that's really the point; look to the future when deciding whether or not to take the opportunity offered today. Those who can see past their bulging hip pockets may well see a future where negotiation and compromise result in a improvements to pay and conditions.
Those who join now will get all the benefits of any future increase in P and C's while having benefited from being at the company for a while, ie their spot on the seniority list.
And to answer your question about days off, yes we do have 10/11 days off per month here. And yes, although it varies across bases/types/ranks, alot of pilots still do 85 hours + each month. That's because when the new roster protocol came in, it did so at the same time as roster-pairings were re-evaluated so that we would all work longer days to achieve the days off. Another example of negotiated compromise helping both sides of the table. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it should be recognised as for the good that it is.
Again, it's everyone's individual choice; get in at the start and enjoy the benefits of being near the top of the seniority list while waiting for P & C's to get better, or wait until they do before you take the plunge and then have to wait so much longer for those same benefits (ie promotion/base allocations/leave slots/etc).
And as for earning the same as we do? Yes, I believe you NZers should earn the same as we do; If we earn ?,000s in AUD, then you guys should earn at least the same figure in NZD. And that's the crux - if the NZ JQ pilots fly the hours that's expected, then that will roughly be the case.
Peace? Nay, Peace AND Love, brother.
