Air New Zealand Bail Out
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: back to the land of small pay and big bills
Age: 50
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pondoklabu I can't beleive you are still proud of the rotten carcass that Ansett had become by the time of AirNZs arrival. It was strangled by unions, overloaded with debt, had miserable productivity, and had a ruinous number of types operated..what exactly are you so proud about..all AirNZ did was keep it struggling along for a year or so longer than it would've left to its own devices. Get a grip
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Matti,
Not one of the issues you refer to was a problem particular to Ansett.
"It was strangled by unions". As is Qantas, more so than Ansett ever was. Does AirNZ have a proud history of effective labor management? I don't think so.
"had miserable productivity"
Compared to . . . . which airline? Perhaps you have some numbers you could provide.
"and had a ruinous number of types operated".
Ansett operated fewer types than many western airlines, Qantas included. BA/AA/AF some examples. Don't fall for the spin, numerous aircraft types does not break an airline.
Ansett was not perfect and was losing money when NZ took over. But to pretend that politics did not play an important part in the demise of Ansett is very naive at best.
Not one of the issues you refer to was a problem particular to Ansett.
"It was strangled by unions". As is Qantas, more so than Ansett ever was. Does AirNZ have a proud history of effective labor management? I don't think so.
"had miserable productivity"
Compared to . . . . which airline? Perhaps you have some numbers you could provide.
"and had a ruinous number of types operated".
Ansett operated fewer types than many western airlines, Qantas included. BA/AA/AF some examples. Don't fall for the spin, numerous aircraft types does not break an airline.
Ansett was not perfect and was losing money when NZ took over. But to pretend that politics did not play an important part in the demise of Ansett is very naive at best.
Yes but the plan is that it will be B787, B777, B737 and A320 with the exit of the B744 and B767.
The reality is that the Ansett the airline and Air New Zealand the airline, had very little to with the demise of either operation as it was the players behind the scene of both airlines that was actually playing the tune.
These players were after bigger stakes than the airline operations they controlled, so saying that Air NZ did this or Ansett did that is just cr*p.
The people who were playing the game do not post on PPrune and they live in Aussie, New Zealand and Singapore, they are business men and polies. Any one who says they know what was happening then is a bull*hitter because each player had different objectives.
The reality is that the Ansett the airline and Air New Zealand the airline, had very little to with the demise of either operation as it was the players behind the scene of both airlines that was actually playing the tune.
These players were after bigger stakes than the airline operations they controlled, so saying that Air NZ did this or Ansett did that is just cr*p.
The people who were playing the game do not post on PPrune and they live in Aussie, New Zealand and Singapore, they are business men and polies. Any one who says they know what was happening then is a bull*hitter because each player had different objectives.
This - despite its dubious origin - is an objective and good summary of the developments in Australia and NZ at the time.
The influence of SQ cannot be underestimated. They're an extremely difficult (and unpleasant) organisation to have commercial dealings with.
And vindictive to boot
The influence of SQ cannot be underestimated. They're an extremely difficult (and unpleasant) organisation to have commercial dealings with.
And vindictive to boot
I think that Qantas and the Australian government as the owner of Qantas as it was a few years ago had quite a bit to do with Ansetts demise with a fair bit of help from News Corp. It was pretty much Aussies being screwed by Aussies and a bit of help from one or two people at Brierleys.
Qantas and the Aussie government blocked Air New Zealand from operating in OZ under the open skies agreement. They didn't want Air New Zealand spoiling the Qantas share float.
Air NZ found another way into OZ - a 50% share in Ansett. When the other 50% came up for sale Air NZ was a natural purchaser. Singapore Airlines would have been a better option for all concerned but News Corps milking of the system may have even made Singapore cut Ansett loose eventually.
Brierleys wanted out of Air NZ and hoped that thru Air NZ excercising their rights with Ansett they could unload their share in Air NZ onto Singapore.
I also suspect the groundings Ansett experienced were also driven by third parties perhaps Qantas, the nails that closed the coffin.
While Air New Zealand wasn't blameless there were other players who had much more input to the proceedings.
Qantas and the Aussie government blocked Air New Zealand from operating in OZ under the open skies agreement. They didn't want Air New Zealand spoiling the Qantas share float.
Air NZ found another way into OZ - a 50% share in Ansett. When the other 50% came up for sale Air NZ was a natural purchaser. Singapore Airlines would have been a better option for all concerned but News Corps milking of the system may have even made Singapore cut Ansett loose eventually.
Brierleys wanted out of Air NZ and hoped that thru Air NZ excercising their rights with Ansett they could unload their share in Air NZ onto Singapore.
I also suspect the groundings Ansett experienced were also driven by third parties perhaps Qantas, the nails that closed the coffin.
While Air New Zealand wasn't blameless there were other players who had much more input to the proceedings.
