The weight debate: paying for excess bags when your actual body weight is low.
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The weight debate: paying for excess bags when your actual body weight is low.
I'll subsidise fatties when pigs fly
By John Rolfe
The Daily Telegraph
November 29, 2008 04:36am
WHY should I have to pay for my excess luggage when fatties don't have to?
Last week a Canadian court ruled fat people have the right to two seats on a plane for the price of one.
Sorry, they're not "fat people". They are, according to one airline, "customers of size".
And today we publish the results of a travel website survey that shows a majority of Australians disagree with the ruling. Most think fatties should have to buy that second seat.
I say we must go further.
All plane passengers should be weighed at check-in, otherwise the obesity crisis will inevitably lead to over-burdened flights falling from the sky.
Checking into a Sydney-London flight in 2005 I was forced to fork over $320 for having 8kg more in my bags than the "limit".
As the Qantas staff member processed the payment I looked at the line behind me. Fattie. Fattie. Bill Bryson. Fattie.
My cash was covering those cows in the queue. Why is it that bags are the only things airlines weigh?
I weighed 70kg (and still do). Add 8kg excess luggage plus the 20kg allowed. That's a total of 98kg.
Some people on that flight weighed 130kg. Add 20kg of luggage and they're more than 50 per cent heavier than me and mine.
Yet I paid more.
Airlines need to introduce the same system for passengers as the horse-racing industry has for jockeys.
Get on the scales with your saddle bags. If you can't make the weight you're off - or you'll have to buy the seat beside you.
And the other side, come to think of it - it's completely unfair for people like me to be deep-fried peanut-butter sandwiched to the wall for 14 hours.
Before I get strung up outside a KFC, I should make it clear that I don't really believe in weigh-ins and check-ins.
Because while some people are unnecessarily heavy, others are just bigger than me. Where would it end? Skin-fold tests?
That said, when will we stop making excuses for people who are too fat? It's bad for them and it costs the community a bomb in related healthcare costs.
Access Economics recently estimated the fat epidemic bill at $58 billion.
Reality must bite, so to speak, some time soon.
Interestingly, the travel.com.au survey of attitudes towards obese travellers found NSW to be most tolerant.
There are two explanations for this.
The first is that people have a finite amount of displeasure to direct at others, and that our State Labor Government has sopped up pretty much all of it up like a piece of bread in dripping.
The second explanation is the stones-in-glasshouses argument: We have more fat people than other states. About 600,000 more, according to census figures. There are so many fat people in NSW that only a minority want "customers of size" to have to pay for that second seat.
Now that's food for thought.
By John Rolfe
The Daily Telegraph
November 29, 2008 04:36am
WHY should I have to pay for my excess luggage when fatties don't have to?
Last week a Canadian court ruled fat people have the right to two seats on a plane for the price of one.
Sorry, they're not "fat people". They are, according to one airline, "customers of size".
And today we publish the results of a travel website survey that shows a majority of Australians disagree with the ruling. Most think fatties should have to buy that second seat.
I say we must go further.
All plane passengers should be weighed at check-in, otherwise the obesity crisis will inevitably lead to over-burdened flights falling from the sky.
Checking into a Sydney-London flight in 2005 I was forced to fork over $320 for having 8kg more in my bags than the "limit".
As the Qantas staff member processed the payment I looked at the line behind me. Fattie. Fattie. Bill Bryson. Fattie.
My cash was covering those cows in the queue. Why is it that bags are the only things airlines weigh?
I weighed 70kg (and still do). Add 8kg excess luggage plus the 20kg allowed. That's a total of 98kg.
Some people on that flight weighed 130kg. Add 20kg of luggage and they're more than 50 per cent heavier than me and mine.
Yet I paid more.
Airlines need to introduce the same system for passengers as the horse-racing industry has for jockeys.
Get on the scales with your saddle bags. If you can't make the weight you're off - or you'll have to buy the seat beside you.
And the other side, come to think of it - it's completely unfair for people like me to be deep-fried peanut-butter sandwiched to the wall for 14 hours.
Before I get strung up outside a KFC, I should make it clear that I don't really believe in weigh-ins and check-ins.
Because while some people are unnecessarily heavy, others are just bigger than me. Where would it end? Skin-fold tests?
That said, when will we stop making excuses for people who are too fat? It's bad for them and it costs the community a bomb in related healthcare costs.
Access Economics recently estimated the fat epidemic bill at $58 billion.
Reality must bite, so to speak, some time soon.
Interestingly, the travel.com.au survey of attitudes towards obese travellers found NSW to be most tolerant.
There are two explanations for this.
The first is that people have a finite amount of displeasure to direct at others, and that our State Labor Government has sopped up pretty much all of it up like a piece of bread in dripping.
The second explanation is the stones-in-glasshouses argument: We have more fat people than other states. About 600,000 more, according to census figures. There are so many fat people in NSW that only a minority want "customers of size" to have to pay for that second seat.
Now that's food for thought.
I suppose the argument could also extend into other areas such as costs of medical care to the tax payer ect...
The problem at the end of the day with this one is that some people are heavy because they are big - say a football player for example and then some are heavy because they overeat. But is it fair for the featherweight to pay excess bags?
Bottums Up
Weighing of pax, from an RPT transport perspective won't be used as it's too cumbersome, and time consuming, and therefore expensive.
As for V speeds, unless the pax load isn't representative of the wider population, ie the 53rd world congress of Sumo Wrestlers, then average pax weights are surprisingly accurate.
My first twin job was flying people from Bundy, to and fro Lady Eliott Island. The strip being only 600 metres, everything that went onto the aircraft was weighed. At one point, Fearless Leader (Chief Pilot) took all the load sheets for the year, and determined that the average weight of all adult pax was, 77 kg! This at the time was the average weight for adult pax.
Now whilst most of the pax were diving types, a lot weren't, and it wasn't uncommon for Ten Ton Tess from Teddington to refuse to hop on the scales because she didn't want to face the truth. Some would even take their shoes off in an effort to weigh less, so the 12 month sample did contain a representative sample of the community.
As for V speeds, unless the pax load isn't representative of the wider population, ie the 53rd world congress of Sumo Wrestlers, then average pax weights are surprisingly accurate.
My first twin job was flying people from Bundy, to and fro Lady Eliott Island. The strip being only 600 metres, everything that went onto the aircraft was weighed. At one point, Fearless Leader (Chief Pilot) took all the load sheets for the year, and determined that the average weight of all adult pax was, 77 kg! This at the time was the average weight for adult pax.
Now whilst most of the pax were diving types, a lot weren't, and it wasn't uncommon for Ten Ton Tess from Teddington to refuse to hop on the scales because she didn't want to face the truth. Some would even take their shoes off in an effort to weigh less, so the 12 month sample did contain a representative sample of the community.
Last edited by Capt Claret; 29th Nov 2008 at 01:57. Reason: syntax & spelling
In New Zealand airlines are required to do a representative weigh of approx 10,000 pax (for the jet operators) and their hand luggage every five years to confirm average pax weight. The survey is overseen by CAA staff, and is taken on different flight profiles.
The last one had an average weight of 82 kg, and this is adjusted when groups outside the standard profile are carried, i.e. school groups or sumo conventon goers
The last one had an average weight of 82 kg, and this is adjusted when groups outside the standard profile are carried, i.e. school groups or sumo conventon goers
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Excess baggage is only part about overall weight.
Rest is an incentive to passengers to keep bags with OH&S standards for the baggage handlers (and frankly for the LCCs to creep a bit of extra revenue from cheap tickets)
Rest is an incentive to passengers to keep bags with OH&S standards for the baggage handlers (and frankly for the LCCs to creep a bit of extra revenue from cheap tickets)
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And a lot of the fat people claim that it is their DNA, nothing to do with a crap diet 
Have you ever seen a fat Ethiopian ?
As someone asked recently, is Canada is becoming the Byron Bay of the world.
Where will it all end
Have you ever seen a fat Ethiopian ?
As someone asked recently, is Canada is becoming the Byron Bay of the world.
Where will it all end
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I have had this discussion before with a light pax moaning as her bags were off loaded and whilst I can see their point of view, the check-in/loading procedures need to be kept as simple as possible for the benefit of easily confused people like me.
Let's not make our jobs more complicated than need be.
Let's not make our jobs more complicated than need be.
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There was an accident in the US in a braz from memory where the pax size/weight was a factor from memory. Can anyone recall the details?
Muscle twice as heavy as fat they say but I don't think muscle is that common in Western society these days!
Muscle twice as heavy as fat they say but I don't think muscle is that common in Western society these days!
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Bit of a larf
I'm not getting at fat people as I could do with losing a few kg's meself, however, this is just hilarious. Enjoy.
YouTube - Ricky Gervais Fame - Fat people
YouTube - Ricky Gervais Fame - Fat people
Bushy,
Unfortunately fit and healthy sometimes has nothing to do with it. Obese has been applied to me in the middle of my footy playing days when I was having a medical for a trekking holiday. I almost fell off my chair! I hardly had any fat on me, however my Body Mass Index (a height to weight ratio based on the average male and female body) put me on the borderline of the chart's obese category. The doctor (who I also played footy with, so he knew I wasn't obese, or even overweight) said that medically he would have to think about whether he could pass me for the medical. I was about 20% over the "correct" weight for my height, which according to his charts, was obese. I have a very solid build, and remarked that I was probably fitter and stronger at that time than I had ever been, but he still took some convincing to go against the almighty "charts". He spent half an hour on the phone (which he charged me for!) with the trekking company before he would pass me.
Unfortunately fit and healthy sometimes has nothing to do with it. Obese has been applied to me in the middle of my footy playing days when I was having a medical for a trekking holiday. I almost fell off my chair! I hardly had any fat on me, however my Body Mass Index (a height to weight ratio based on the average male and female body) put me on the borderline of the chart's obese category. The doctor (who I also played footy with, so he knew I wasn't obese, or even overweight) said that medically he would have to think about whether he could pass me for the medical. I was about 20% over the "correct" weight for my height, which according to his charts, was obese. I have a very solid build, and remarked that I was probably fitter and stronger at that time than I had ever been, but he still took some convincing to go against the almighty "charts". He spent half an hour on the phone (which he charged me for!) with the trekking company before he would pass me.
Traffic guy, obviously your weight was not the only issue if it required a half hour phone call to get you on the Trek.
Want to know what you should weigh?
The Stillman formula.
He fixes the non-active man's average weight for height with a simple formula. He allocates 110lbs (56.2kg) for the first five feet (1.524m) in height and 5 1/2lbs (2.49475kg) for every inch (0.025m) thereafter. He is harsher with women, giving them 100lbs (45.3kg) for the first five feet and 5lbs (2.268kg) for every inch above this.
Want to know what you should weigh?
The Stillman formula.
He fixes the non-active man's average weight for height with a simple formula. He allocates 110lbs (56.2kg) for the first five feet (1.524m) in height and 5 1/2lbs (2.49475kg) for every inch (0.025m) thereafter. He is harsher with women, giving them 100lbs (45.3kg) for the first five feet and 5lbs (2.268kg) for every inch above this.
No, it was all about the BMI, I could hear his conversation. He said everything else was fine, but for the BMI. He even said that he could physically see that I was not overweight, but his charts indicated otherwise.
I was probably an inch shorter than the doctor, but probably 20 kg heavier than him. Just different body types.
According to your formula I should be 83.6 kg. Back then (20 years ago) I was supposed to be 75kg according to the chart. I was then around 88kg, and am 90kg now. In neither case do I consider myself obese, but if you are outside the curve, you could be labelled as such.
I have had numerous medicals since and it has never been raised as an issue since.
I was probably an inch shorter than the doctor, but probably 20 kg heavier than him. Just different body types.
According to your formula I should be 83.6 kg. Back then (20 years ago) I was supposed to be 75kg according to the chart. I was then around 88kg, and am 90kg now. In neither case do I consider myself obese, but if you are outside the curve, you could be labelled as such.
I have had numerous medicals since and it has never been raised as an issue since.
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Slight thread drift but I've always wondered if it would be feasible to install commercial scales on the ramp such that a weight could be taken for each wheel and then converted into a more accurate Ramp Wt and CoG. Of course this could only be done once everything and everybody was on board so it would not work for planning purposes but it could certainly serve to confirm the accuracy of the pre-loading numbers and to reach more accurate speeds and flight planning figures.
It's probably been discussed and seen as cumbersome and unnecessary and I can see why.
~FRC CB
It's probably been discussed and seen as cumbersome and unnecessary and I can see why.
~FRC CB
South West Air (USA) require 'customers of size' to purchase two seats if the aircraft is full and someone else would be denied a seat. If empty seats are available only one seat needs to be paid for.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Sounds reasonable to me.
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The doctor ... said that medically he would have to think about whether he could pass me for the medical
My own observations, I find it hilarious when thinner people feel that they are being discriminated against when compared to fatter people. Its called reverse discrimination. Harden up, fatter people have been doing it for years.