The weight debate: paying for excess bags when your actual body weight is low.
Mr. Hat Yeah.., I though, why don't they put load-cells somewhere in the landing gear structure., then I thought about how much force those cells would experience during a 'normal' landing, never mind a hard one !
It's a 'good idea', but probably fails the cost/benefit test.
Antsl I like your idea, but it could seriously upset the W&B
It's a 'good idea', but probably fails the cost/benefit test.
Antsl I like your idea, but it could seriously upset the W&B
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As for the fat vs skinny debate i dont really care as i've never had to pay excess baggage.
I do however think that knowing the exact weight of your a/c would be very very handy.
I do however think that knowing the exact weight of your a/c would be very very handy.
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Mr Hat wrote:
FRQ, someone once told me that some aircraft have the capability to know their weight but that it has been deactivated or not installed.
If this was on Qantas aircraft the reason the aircraft may have forgotten their weight is because most of them are now senile!
FRQ, someone once told me that some aircraft have the capability to know their weight but that it has been deactivated or not installed.
If this was on Qantas aircraft the reason the aircraft may have forgotten their weight is because most of them are now senile!
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Unfortunately some pax will use their body weight as an argument against paying excess luggage. I just smile and suggest if airlines start to go down that path, they could start to charge for obnoxious-ness, bad breath, body odour, or other personality traits and that would be very subjective..... and expensive if you annoy the CSO!!!!
If a CSO can, they will usually try to wangle seating to ensure that an extra large person has two seats to themselves, for everyone's comfort, but obviously that is not always possible. There is also the option for the pax to purchase a second seat, an option that many frequent travellers do do, again for their own comfort and to save embarrassment.
Cheers
Prado.
If a CSO can, they will usually try to wangle seating to ensure that an extra large person has two seats to themselves, for everyone's comfort, but obviously that is not always possible. There is also the option for the pax to purchase a second seat, an option that many frequent travellers do do, again for their own comfort and to save embarrassment.
Cheers
Prado.
Last edited by Prado; 30th Nov 2008 at 08:58.
Back in the early Eighties, Air Nauru was chartered by UTA (French airline) to operate several flights a week between Noumea and Port Vila including a service from Noumea (Tontouta) to Wallis Island. The aircraft was a 737-200.
The loads were almost always full - the few times that Air Nauru filled more than half the available seats in those days. We had a full load going to Wallis and rate of climb was not all that good and in cruise we continually lost 10 knots IAS from book figures. On descent into Wallis I requested a set of weighing scales be made available to weigh each pax and hand luggage as they stepped off the aircraft.
First off was huge Pacific island lady weighing 135 kgs without hand baggage. That set the scene for the others who varied between 100 kgs to 130 kgs with each hand baggage averaging 15 kgs. Turned out the French UTA agents at Tontouta were using "standard" pax weights of 77 kgs for males and 67 kgs for females. Pacific islanders especially women are often big people.
I recall we were actually 1200 kgs over the max structural weight for the 737 and this had gone on for years without anyone worrying about it. After that UTA had to weigh each passenger on check-in.
The loads were almost always full - the few times that Air Nauru filled more than half the available seats in those days. We had a full load going to Wallis and rate of climb was not all that good and in cruise we continually lost 10 knots IAS from book figures. On descent into Wallis I requested a set of weighing scales be made available to weigh each pax and hand luggage as they stepped off the aircraft.
First off was huge Pacific island lady weighing 135 kgs without hand baggage. That set the scene for the others who varied between 100 kgs to 130 kgs with each hand baggage averaging 15 kgs. Turned out the French UTA agents at Tontouta were using "standard" pax weights of 77 kgs for males and 67 kgs for females. Pacific islanders especially women are often big people.
I recall we were actually 1200 kgs over the max structural weight for the 737 and this had gone on for years without anyone worrying about it. After that UTA had to weigh each passenger on check-in.
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It has worked
There has been a case in Australia where a freighter taxied out grossly overweight due to a fault in the electronic scales that weighed the freight. But the aeroplane (an electra I think) was too smart and told the crew about it so they taxied back and had it checked.
I think they measure the oleo pressures.
On a recent flight with Air New Zealand I noted that you can buy the adjacent seat for $50.00.
I think they measure the oleo pressures.
On a recent flight with Air New Zealand I noted that you can buy the adjacent seat for $50.00.
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Pax weight wouldn't be such an issue if airlines didn't rip off pax with excess baggage charges. A typical wide body on a 6 hr flight burns about 2kg of extra gas for an extra 10kg of baggage. So what's that, about 2.5 lts of fuel... some one tell me what that costs these days, I'm guessing but somewhere around 2 bucks!
excess
I suspect that the 'out-of-all-proportion' excess-baggage charges is the most practical way to keep too many pax from exceeding their weight allowance.
The alternative would be to get pax to unpack overweight bags and remove items at the checkin counter, which then raises the problem of what to do with said items.
The alternative would be to get pax to unpack overweight bags and remove items at the checkin counter, which then raises the problem of what to do with said items.
The more baggage a pax takes, the less cargo can be loaded. If it simply didn't matter, the CSO wouldn't give a %^&* .
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Why shouldn't airlines charge excess? They make their money charging for carriage of passengers and baggage/freight. If you choose to bring more baggage than you've paid for (when purchasing your ticket), of course you should pay more - it's not just about cost covering max AB (do you think courier companies charge by weight simply based on what it costs them to carry it and how much extra fuel the'll use). As Led Zep said, baggage weight often directly affects the quantity of freight that can be carried.
I'm quite happy for people to pay excess baggage charges if it keeps the ticket price down for the vast majority of us who travel with a reasonable amount of baggage. Unless you're moving house, I fail to see how it's so difficult to stick to 20-25 kg.
As for charging based on pax size, this is probibly not going to happen due to human rights considerations. I do like the Southwest policy though.
I'm quite happy for people to pay excess baggage charges if it keeps the ticket price down for the vast majority of us who travel with a reasonable amount of baggage. Unless you're moving house, I fail to see how it's so difficult to stick to 20-25 kg.
As for charging based on pax size, this is probibly not going to happen due to human rights considerations. I do like the Southwest policy though.
Just returned from a multi-stage round-the-world trip using Star Alliance partner airlines - economy.
Not once was there any attempt to limit carry on luggage either by outer sizes,(using the standard cradle), nor by weighing what were likely overweight bags. Lots were so heavy that the owners needed help from other pax to get them up, and others were just so large that they had no way of fitting into the o/h lockers. And these were 767-300, A320, 737-400 - not regionals.
On 2 sectors there was insufficient space in the overheads to fit it all, and we were left with our feet on it all. On one flight within the USA, even the exit rows were chockers with hand luggage in excess of the o/heads. The F/A's simply 'did a Nelson'....or we'd have still been there!
It seems we'll need an incident involving falling overweight hand luggage, before there's any move to curb this excess.
With business tapering off all round the world - is it likely that airlines are going to upset pax who've developed this excess hand luggage habit? I think not.
Luckily for us and fellow pax, the A340 we were departing Dubai on was well under numbers,with everything stowed well, as we made an abort at about 100kts and nothing moved a cm.
happy days,
Not once was there any attempt to limit carry on luggage either by outer sizes,(using the standard cradle), nor by weighing what were likely overweight bags. Lots were so heavy that the owners needed help from other pax to get them up, and others were just so large that they had no way of fitting into the o/h lockers. And these were 767-300, A320, 737-400 - not regionals.
On 2 sectors there was insufficient space in the overheads to fit it all, and we were left with our feet on it all. On one flight within the USA, even the exit rows were chockers with hand luggage in excess of the o/heads. The F/A's simply 'did a Nelson'....or we'd have still been there!
It seems we'll need an incident involving falling overweight hand luggage, before there's any move to curb this excess.
With business tapering off all round the world - is it likely that airlines are going to upset pax who've developed this excess hand luggage habit? I think not.
Luckily for us and fellow pax, the A340 we were departing Dubai on was well under numbers,with everything stowed well, as we made an abort at about 100kts and nothing moved a cm.
happy days,
