Jet* Drunks
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Sorry, was a tired typo.... I meant, there is always someone who gets PAST... habit of typing 'pax' so much in one post.
As for the quiet chat... one does not want to march down the aircraft and grab a pax by the collar, having a quick chat is often the best way to suss out their state of drunkenness (or not). Already suggested by another poster as well.
Not always apparent in an exchange of hello, how are you, scan boarding card, hand back, pax walks off. Often it's as they walk away that the cc get a chance to watch them... in which case if anything odd is noted point it out to the ground crew and onboard manager on returning to the aircraft. (This in the case of domestic boarding). Internationally, if someone looks a bit odd, go over on the pretext of helping with bags or whatever, have a quick hello, anything odd, again, report it to manager/other crew.
No I did not start flying yesterday, did you?
As for the quiet chat... one does not want to march down the aircraft and grab a pax by the collar, having a quick chat is often the best way to suss out their state of drunkenness (or not). Already suggested by another poster as well.
Not always apparent in an exchange of hello, how are you, scan boarding card, hand back, pax walks off. Often it's as they walk away that the cc get a chance to watch them... in which case if anything odd is noted point it out to the ground crew and onboard manager on returning to the aircraft. (This in the case of domestic boarding). Internationally, if someone looks a bit odd, go over on the pretext of helping with bags or whatever, have a quick hello, anything odd, again, report it to manager/other crew.
No I did not start flying yesterday, did you?
Quite a few years ago I was a Capt. on a B737 from Cairns-Brisbane when a F/A asked me what she should do about a very drunk , beligerant and abusive bloke down the back.
I decided to go and have a little " chat " with him .
I explained to him that Rockhampton airport was 15 mins. ahead and if he did not do as I told him we would divert into there.
It was further explaned the the very large Commonwealth Cops would come on board and remove him.
When I told him it would be most unfortunate that he would probably trip and " fall down " the airstairs , trip and fall whilst getting out of the police car and slip and fall face down whilst being escorted to the cells he went very quiet .
I said that all of the forthcoming " bruises " on his face etc. could be explained by his falling whilst drunk , this made him go quite pale.
He had the choice , sit down quietly and drink only coffee or possibly suffer a " few " accidental injuries.
Needless to say it was a pleasant quiet remainder of the journey .
I don't suppose one could do that these days as leaving the flight deck is a no no .
Ah !!!! the good old days .
I decided to go and have a little " chat " with him .
I explained to him that Rockhampton airport was 15 mins. ahead and if he did not do as I told him we would divert into there.
It was further explaned the the very large Commonwealth Cops would come on board and remove him.
When I told him it would be most unfortunate that he would probably trip and " fall down " the airstairs , trip and fall whilst getting out of the police car and slip and fall face down whilst being escorted to the cells he went very quiet .
I said that all of the forthcoming " bruises " on his face etc. could be explained by his falling whilst drunk , this made him go quite pale.
He had the choice , sit down quietly and drink only coffee or possibly suffer a " few " accidental injuries.
Needless to say it was a pleasant quiet remainder of the journey .
I don't suppose one could do that these days as leaving the flight deck is a no no .
Ah !!!! the good old days .
Bottums Up
CAR (1988) 256;
There are legal ramifications in accusing some one of being intoxicated. There are also legal ramifications in carrying an intoxicated person, whether they've been talked to, or not.
256 Intoxicated persons not to act as pilots etc. or be carried on aircraft
(1) A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(1) A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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So what actually happened on board? Anyone know?
Makes it hard to recover costs if no prosecution ocurr.
Join Date: Jan 1998
Location: somewhere in the nth of Oz, where it isn't really cold
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I think I heard that 2 or 3 were held in protective custody by the NT's finest - which means exactly that - they were considered too drunk to be able to look after themselves, the others were released.
What a debacle!
A very clear message has just been broadcast to anyone wanting to get hammered & disrupt an Australian aircraft - go right ahead - you''ll more than likely walk away without charge.
This particular group of crew & passengers have been let down badly. Now spare a thought for the next innocent group of crew & passengers who will suffer disruption & intimidation by yet another lot of idiots who know full well,there's no serious deterent.
Get serious JQ et al...... press charges! Simple really: the skipper returns or diverts - You're Charged!
Surely not a case of insufficient evidence? Could it be the people involved were not to be charged?
A very clear message has just been broadcast to anyone wanting to get hammered & disrupt an Australian aircraft - go right ahead - you''ll more than likely walk away without charge.
This particular group of crew & passengers have been let down badly. Now spare a thought for the next innocent group of crew & passengers who will suffer disruption & intimidation by yet another lot of idiots who know full well,there's no serious deterent.
Get serious JQ et al...... press charges! Simple really: the skipper returns or diverts - You're Charged!
Surely not a case of insufficient evidence? Could it be the people involved were not to be charged?
Bottums Up
Dog One, as one who detests the way our airport security has changed in the last 7-ish years, when I've had dealings with the local (DRW) AFPers, they've been good ones.
Recently we were met, on arrival DRW at my request, because some bright sparks on board thought it was cute to steal Cabin Crew name badges. The AFP response was prompt, courteous, and couldn't have been described as keystone in any way.
Recently we were met, on arrival DRW at my request, because some bright sparks on board thought it was cute to steal Cabin Crew name badges. The AFP response was prompt, courteous, and couldn't have been described as keystone in any way.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Speedbirdhouse,
I guess you proved me wrong about making negative statements...and still ignored the question!
TMAK,
"Lets keep in mind ",QF [Internationally] DONT have Cabin Crew at the gate.
Do "onya Jetstar" and more importantly?
Do you know what you are talking about?
It doesn't sound like it.........
Yes indeed all JQ flights have cabin crew at the boarding gates. For INT sectors the Ground staff will also be involved in boarding as well. Its a little different for the A330, but all flights ex DRW are only A320's.
I suspect I am as familiar with boarding, if not more, than you as I assume you are crew? Did spend a number of years doing this....the good old days. I would doubt most ground staff would intentially pass on a known drunk or troublesome pax without at least some communication (I say most not all) to the cabin manager. My point is more around the fact that unless the pax are actually staggering, abusive or looking out of it you will usually bring on more problems by suggesting to someone they are drunk. Departing some ports, at certain times of the day, nearly everyone has had a drink of sorts...
Goes without saying that if you suspect they are, then either the pax should be challenged or a second (or third) opinion from the cabin manager (and Capt).
Whilst Jet Jackson is in general correct, it is somewhat over simplified version. Life is not as simple as a textbook (as it is not for crew either) when you are boarding and focused on many different things while trying to observe potentially hundreds of pax. Still doesnt mean you shouldnt try of course. This is where the benefit of having additional or supervisory staff at the gate comes in.
I do agree with you on the charges...absolutely the airline (any airline) should prosecute these pax. They have let themselves and the crew down by doing nothing about it.
Back to my point about the investigation...why not let it determine what went wrong, see if the staff did fail or whether it was unavoidable...then we can comment on actual facts and occurences...rather than taking the usual abusive wild shots at JQ...
Surely you wont tell me you have never boarded a flight (as a pax) after a couple of drinks...or drunk a fair few on a long flights...no difference in either happening really.
I guess you proved me wrong about making negative statements...and still ignored the question!
TMAK,
"Lets keep in mind ",QF [Internationally] DONT have Cabin Crew at the gate.
Do "onya Jetstar" and more importantly?
Do you know what you are talking about?
It doesn't sound like it.........
Yes indeed all JQ flights have cabin crew at the boarding gates. For INT sectors the Ground staff will also be involved in boarding as well. Its a little different for the A330, but all flights ex DRW are only A320's.
I suspect I am as familiar with boarding, if not more, than you as I assume you are crew? Did spend a number of years doing this....the good old days. I would doubt most ground staff would intentially pass on a known drunk or troublesome pax without at least some communication (I say most not all) to the cabin manager. My point is more around the fact that unless the pax are actually staggering, abusive or looking out of it you will usually bring on more problems by suggesting to someone they are drunk. Departing some ports, at certain times of the day, nearly everyone has had a drink of sorts...
Goes without saying that if you suspect they are, then either the pax should be challenged or a second (or third) opinion from the cabin manager (and Capt).
Whilst Jet Jackson is in general correct, it is somewhat over simplified version. Life is not as simple as a textbook (as it is not for crew either) when you are boarding and focused on many different things while trying to observe potentially hundreds of pax. Still doesnt mean you shouldnt try of course. This is where the benefit of having additional or supervisory staff at the gate comes in.
I do agree with you on the charges...absolutely the airline (any airline) should prosecute these pax. They have let themselves and the crew down by doing nothing about it.
Back to my point about the investigation...why not let it determine what went wrong, see if the staff did fail or whether it was unavoidable...then we can comment on actual facts and occurences...rather than taking the usual abusive wild shots at JQ...
Surely you wont tell me you have never boarded a flight (as a pax) after a couple of drinks...or drunk a fair few on a long flights...no difference in either happening really.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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As ground staff, you always give a "heads up" to the crew of anything unusual observed during the check in process ... however a lot can change between when you check 'em in and when they board the aircraft .... don't most airports have a bar somewhere in between the check in desk & the boarding gate? A few mints & quietly through the boarding gate... who's to know what they've been up to? Isn't there some adage about 1 drink on the ground being worth 3 at altitude??
It is really disappointing however that the airlines (and I mean ALL airlines, as they all have these types of incidents) are not pursuing & charging these idiots.
Ahhh, if only we could still do it like in the good ol days, RodH!!
It is really disappointing however that the airlines (and I mean ALL airlines, as they all have these types of incidents) are not pursuing & charging these idiots.
Ahhh, if only we could still do it like in the good ol days, RodH!!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Prado, in the good old days as you young turks call it, I took great pleasure on more than one occasion to throw a offensive, raving tosser of my aircraft without the fear of being invited in for tea and bikkies by the boss. PAX were normally well dressed and well behaved, not like I heard on JQ the other day eg: "where's mefuggin seat extension" in the old days you could tell a flight attendent that she looked attractive and she said thankyou and didn't fill in a sexual harrassment form. In the old days your F/O didn't bring his own tofu and muesli, and didn't ring his personnel trainer as soon as he left the A/C. In the old days pilots knew who Jimmy Doolittle was, and loved nothing more than the sound of Axial flow donks, crackling away and left an impressive black smoke trail. Throttles were pushed up and left there, Economy cruise was something in the performance book, but no one knew why or where it was. And if the clacker went off no one got all uptight, because we knew Boeing built it out of iron, nothing was going to fall off. In the old days if a PAX became impossible, the largest member of the flight deck went down with the handcuffs, and (a) threatened to belt the bloke (B) did so, and handcuffed him, without the threat of job loss or court case, (normally to the applause of PAX) sadly you young turks, have to abide by the ratbags who brought in all this equal rights stuff for your local friendly criminal, and it has now worked its way through the court systems, into the community, and of course onto A/C. Rather you blokes than me.
Only a few weeks ago we had the great pleasure of throwing off a passenger in Amsterdam. Silly pr*ck refused to put his carry on bag in the overhead locker or under the seat as directed and then argued with the cabin crew. He was even annoying the other pax around him. Luckily we hadn’t taken off but unfortunately we had already started taxying and were half way to the holding point for 36L. If anyone here knows Schiphol, the distance to this runway is considerable and turning back is a nuisance. When we finally got back to the gate the police didn’t waste any time forcibly removing this idiot and throwing him into a waiting paddy wagon. We could even here all the other pax cheering and clapping as they did it through the locked cockpit door which brought a huge smile to our faces.
Well said Teresa,
and they hide all that behind the term "CRM". The intention of CRM seems to have been lost a in polically correct rush to prove who is the "nicest and most poplular" crew memeber.
and they hide all that behind the term "CRM". The intention of CRM seems to have been lost a in polically correct rush to prove who is the "nicest and most poplular" crew memeber.
I had a rather drunk and abusive passenger, who was swearing at everybody and sat beside me in JNB. He refused to be quiet when asked by a couple of Crew. He was dressed in shorts and singlet, not to mention the tats.
Finally the CSM came down and asked this guy what the problem was, but got abused and suggested they should go outside and the matter would be sorted.
The CSM then said they would go for a chat and that was the last we saw of this lowlife as he was taken into the tender loving care of the JNB airport police.
I ended up with a mature, very pleasant lady next to me and it turned into a very pleasant flight.
Finally the CSM came down and asked this guy what the problem was, but got abused and suggested they should go outside and the matter would be sorted.
The CSM then said they would go for a chat and that was the last we saw of this lowlife as he was taken into the tender loving care of the JNB airport police.
I ended up with a mature, very pleasant lady next to me and it turned into a very pleasant flight.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Teresa, we'll still chuck em off .... then just spend days and days going through the paperwork to justify the action when the disgruntled pax have gone to their Lawyers, who are threatening the airline with legal action. 
Just be happy you didn't have to do the paper work in your day!
Ciao
Just be happy you didn't have to do the paper work in your day!
Ciao
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Prado, whilst flying for TAA in New Guinea, we actually had side arms. I used to stand on the wing so some bugger didn't jump me. When I think about it it was pretty dumb, as one or more PAX could have taken it from you, but at that time I was a fit young buck and very wary. It probably sounds like our era was fairly violent, but it was not the case. Any ratbag that upset our girls, or abused them was fair game to any male crew member being either cabin or tech. When I think about it the male cabin crew enjoyed a bit of biff if necessary, but we had nothing to fear from management or lawyers, that came later. I can well remember grabbing some drunken bum by the collar and ear and escorting him off a DC9 in SYD, where Constable Plod then proceeded to kick him where the sun don't shine, all the way down the arm. Bring it back, especially in the schools, and the home. Anybody of my era had the Cr$p beaten out of them for disrespect, or crime, and it had no ill effect on most of us, only to make us think twice about doing it again. The world has gone mad, with only anarchy ahead. You have to fear for your kids and grandkids.
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Gettin jiggy with an Indo cell mate!!
I wonder what happens to unruly drunk passengers that are dropped off in Jakarta? Interference with an International airliner. I couple of nights in a Indo goal with a severely widen ring will fix em!!
Why did the Captain even opt to go back to OZ? DUH!! Slap on the wrist and they do it again anyway. Commercially irresponsible i say. Bring the aircraft to the closest online port and drop off the passengers that don't listen to your threats of having them arrested in a foreign country.
Why did the Captain even opt to go back to OZ? DUH!! Slap on the wrist and they do it again anyway. Commercially irresponsible i say. Bring the aircraft to the closest online port and drop off the passengers that don't listen to your threats of having them arrested in a foreign country.
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Depends how far out you. What happens if they start getting into a brawl and some innocent bystander gets killed in the violence? Then you'd be saying the crew should have got them all on the ground sooner.
Good job crew; bad job management for not arresting and pressing charges.
Good job crew; bad job management for not arresting and pressing charges.