Another QF diversion....
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Another QF diversion....
'Emergency' forces Qantas jet down.....
'Emergency' forces Qantas jet down - News - Travel - theage.com.au
'Emergency' forces Qantas jet down - News - Travel - theage.com.au
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In the Melbourne 'Sun' newspaper a Qantas spokeswoman said the shutting down of the engine was not a safety issue.An engine shut down in flight in my eyes is a major safety issue because if you loose another engine I'm afraid it's only downhill from there.
It is then no wonder Qantas looks at aircraft maintenance in this light with people like that working for them.
It is then no wonder Qantas looks at aircraft maintenance in this light with people like that working for them.
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Ho hum another one, what a load of crap, show me a pilot over 40 who has not lost a donk, somewhere along the line, and I will show you a lucky fellow. 
What a laughing stock management have turned this airline into. 1x 400 in Frankfurt, 1x 400 in London, 1 x 400 in Manila all broken. 1 x 400 in Avalon late out of maintenance. Todays 577 classic to Perth(EBX) cancelled due to wiring problems on fuel pumps in NO1 main tank (relays fused together) best guess 2 days out. EBW in the hangar due to rear toilet line burst and crap etc all over the rear cargo hold.Approx 150 pax to overnight. It wont end unless the board wake up and get rid of the lot of them and start afresh with outsiders. Wont hold my breath.
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I know a bloke who had 30 odd years at QF and some 26000 hrs or so and shut down two, due parameters exceeding a limit but never lost one with a failure.
Is that close enough?
Had a few in the bush with old 185's etc when he was a young fella!
J
Is that close enough?
Had a few in the bush with old 185's etc when he was a young fella!
J
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QF used to be run by Engineers and Pilots who fully understood the fact that the airline business was not like any other business and that A/C and Crew (ground and flight) were not liabilities but assets. If a dollar needed to be spent on maintenance or training then it was, no questions asked.
For far too many years now the airline has been run by accountants who know the cost of everything but the value of nothing!!!!
The whole strategy of rewarding managers (at least that's what they call them) with bonuses for reducing costs was only ever going to end up the way it has i.e rich managers and an airline that's fu#k*d. Segmenting the business and setting department against department in the cost cutting and blame game was another master stroke (NOT). There was no doubt fat needed to be trimmed a few years ago but the clowns have cut through the muscle and bone as well.
Very sad indeed.
For far too many years now the airline has been run by accountants who know the cost of everything but the value of nothing!!!!
The whole strategy of rewarding managers (at least that's what they call them) with bonuses for reducing costs was only ever going to end up the way it has i.e rich managers and an airline that's fu#k*d. Segmenting the business and setting department against department in the cost cutting and blame game was another master stroke (NOT). There was no doubt fat needed to be trimmed a few years ago but the clowns have cut through the muscle and bone as well.
Very sad indeed.
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I love the media.
"Emergency forces Jet down"
I have one for them.
"Plane screeched to earth shattering stop and passengers flea once theaircraft stops"
Thats a normal landing and disembarkation in my world.
The media are idiots and Mr and Mrs Below Average love sensationalism which is why they buy NW Magazine.
"Emergency forces Jet down"
I have one for them.
"Plane screeched to earth shattering stop and passengers flea once theaircraft stops"
Thats a normal landing and disembarkation in my world.
The media are idiots and Mr and Mrs Below Average love sensationalism which is why they buy NW Magazine.
Kiwi PPRuNer
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anyone remember the "mystery" weekend flights offered by ansett,
maybe this is qantas's way of breaking into a new market, get on the plane, not knowing where you will end up
maybe this is qantas's way of breaking into a new market, get on the plane, not knowing where you will end up
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woftam,
I agree, and remember that time aswell, lets hope one day sooner rather than later it will come around again...........
dont forget the stock holders, but put them down the bottom of the list, safety first, no matter what the cost...
Theres a reason they make that much money, and its from the safety record they made... stock holders wont be happy if they loose that...
I agree, and remember that time aswell, lets hope one day sooner rather than later it will come around again...........
dont forget the stock holders, but put them down the bottom of the list, safety first, no matter what the cost...
Theres a reason they make that much money, and its from the safety record they made... stock holders wont be happy if they loose that...
Probably the only good part about that particular article was that it's the only one I've seen to say "wheel bay door" as compared to "door" re the adelaide incident.
And evidently the media trust Mrs Rees more that the people who knew what was going on (by her own admission Mrs Rees didn't have a clue!)
And evidently the media trust Mrs Rees more that the people who knew what was going on (by her own admission Mrs Rees didn't have a clue!)
Boeing may call it a non-normal. PR may call it a pilot induced delay.
I still call it an emergency. Not dire but still not ops normal!
Im the first to have a go at the media, but I can't blame them for a story about an inflight engine shutdown. I do draw the line at tech delays at the gate however.
I still call it an emergency. Not dire but still not ops normal!
Im the first to have a go at the media, but I can't blame them for a story about an inflight engine shutdown. I do draw the line at tech delays at the gate however.
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An engine shut down on a 744 is not an emergency (given the definition of the term or the 'spirit' in which it is used), especially given the situation in which they found themselves. It just about qualifies as a non-normal but only because it's usual to have all 4 donks spinning. A Jumbo without one of the engines is hardly noticeable and most times would not even affect the operation, especially if it happens fairly late in the flight without hours of travelling a bit slower for the same fuel burn as four engines ahead of you. With only 1.5 hours-ish to run to LHR they would have been pretty light and the eng out page would almost certainly have told them they could have stayed at their present flight level, if they so wished. I have absolutely no idea why they decided to divert to FRA but I'm certainly not going to second-guess the crew. They did it for a reason or two and that's that. Good decision, well executed, end of story.
Yes, the pax are inconvenienced and, especially given QF's recent lacklustre performance, they are angry. But (a)they are safe (and that, of course, is the name of the game) and (b)there are millions of flights per day from FRA to LHR, so they won't be there very long.
Again, more sensationalism from journalists looking for non-events to write about. They'd be far better concentrating on how windscreen wipers on my ute are not really up to the job and could well cause an accident in torrential rain.
The only time I ever found engine failures vaguely 'interesting' on the Jumbo was losing 2 on the same side with lots of terrain around. Never done it for real but places like Bogota, in the sim, with 2 out on the same side at max take-off weight makes it sporty and probably worth declaring a Pan
.
Yes, the pax are inconvenienced and, especially given QF's recent lacklustre performance, they are angry. But (a)they are safe (and that, of course, is the name of the game) and (b)there are millions of flights per day from FRA to LHR, so they won't be there very long.
Again, more sensationalism from journalists looking for non-events to write about. They'd be far better concentrating on how windscreen wipers on my ute are not really up to the job and could well cause an accident in torrential rain.
The only time I ever found engine failures vaguely 'interesting' on the Jumbo was losing 2 on the same side with lots of terrain around. Never done it for real but places like Bogota, in the sim, with 2 out on the same side at max take-off weight makes it sporty and probably worth declaring a Pan
.
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Pontius, the word from a -400 mate of mine is that the shut-down occurred much earlier - somewhere just past Afghanistan. If so, then they would have been tighter on gas for LHR; and LHR actually had a TEMPO below op reqt on it also. On the other hand, FRA was clear.
So lobbing into FRA makes sense afterall.
So lobbing into FRA makes sense afterall.
Last edited by Ron & Edna Johns; 1st Sep 2008 at 23:32.
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Originally Posted by satos
An engine shut down in flight in my eyes is a major safety issue because if you loose another engine I'm afraid it's only downhill from there.
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Ron & Edna,
The engine being shut down at the point you suggest makes a lot of sense, as far as diverting into FRA versus continuing to LHR, especially if LHR's weather was looking dodgy. As I said above, the fuel burn doesn't really go up with one engine shut down but, obviously, you end up cruising at a slower speed, the flight time is longer and, overall, you end up using a bit more fuel due to being up there longer. Couple that with a poor forecast and it sounds like the crew made excatly the right decision (something I never questioned for one moment).
Depending on the individual companies, an engine shutdown on a Jumbo can make almost no difference whatsoever to the actual operation of the beast. The aircraft is still certified for Cat IIIB operations with 3 engines (and autolands just as well with 3 as with 4) and, again depending on company rules, if you calculate you have enough fuel you can continue the flight even if it's only just started i.e. lose one engine on takeoff. It's a great machine
The engine being shut down at the point you suggest makes a lot of sense, as far as diverting into FRA versus continuing to LHR, especially if LHR's weather was looking dodgy. As I said above, the fuel burn doesn't really go up with one engine shut down but, obviously, you end up cruising at a slower speed, the flight time is longer and, overall, you end up using a bit more fuel due to being up there longer. Couple that with a poor forecast and it sounds like the crew made excatly the right decision (something I never questioned for one moment).
Depending on the individual companies, an engine shutdown on a Jumbo can make almost no difference whatsoever to the actual operation of the beast. The aircraft is still certified for Cat IIIB operations with 3 engines (and autolands just as well with 3 as with 4) and, again depending on company rules, if you calculate you have enough fuel you can continue the flight even if it's only just started i.e. lose one engine on takeoff. It's a great machine
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I am in fear of the media deciding to group these "major incidents" (eg. BKK water tray, BKK overshoot, O2 bottle, Darwin 717, FRA divert, etc.) by manufacturer and reach the "obvious" conclusion that the weak link here is Boeing. What a headline - declining standards at QF & an overreliance upon a (clearly) unsafe marque.