19 Years
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The decline in standards of training with the myriad of pilot sausage factories that have sprung up, together with pay-for-training and declining salaries has been as a direct result of how poorly this part of aviation history was played out
We must learn from our past or be doomed to repeat it
KC - learn your history prior to opening your bitter mouth.
DK
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It is you that needs a history lesson. The bankruptcy of Braniff provided the first large import of foreign labour to attempt to bust the AFAP. I think the number was 587 pilots who were offered positions; at least that's what I read on the fax' that I was shown at the time.
The only thing that upsets me is that these people still expect sympathy. It's not like they took a bullet in the arse for their country. They lost a labour dispute... a very long time ago! At the time all wages were linked to the Prices and Incomes Accord contract and they broke away from that agreement-a year later it changed.
So what!
The only thing that upsets me is that these people still expect sympathy. It's not like they took a bullet in the arse for their country. They lost a labour dispute... a very long time ago! At the time all wages were linked to the Prices and Incomes Accord contract and they broke away from that agreement-a year later it changed.
So what!
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Read the book "Sky Pirates". It was a more complicated fight than just the AFAP and Ables. This was a fight that had many personalities in powerful positions that had spent many years building up towards this fight and in retrospect became unbeatable.
Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story!
Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story!
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As a survivor, the message is simple, always plan for the future, nothing is for sure, stick together, enjoy what you have now, and I wish everyone of you a happy and safe flying career in this wonderful country we call home. AND DON"T EVER ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. LEARN FROM US.
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A piece of History.....
with a few interesting parallels....
History unlearned??
DK
May 12 1982: Braniff International Airways
Recession, price wars and sharply rising fuel costs have gravely wounded the airline industry during the past four years. Last week those troubles claimed their first major victim. Braniff International, the ninth largest U.S. airline, declared bankruptcy. It was the first failure of a major carrier since American aviation came flying out of the barnstorming era in the 1930s.
In June, 1988:
BIA-COR Holdings, Inc. - Core Group led by Jeffrey Chodorow (who would reform Braniff one more time in 1991 and steal the rest of the companies' assets) and Arthur Cohen bought Braniff from Dalfort Corporation. Scot Spencer also joined the team, who, as you will find out, was thrown in jail for his involvement in Braniff III. They borrowed LARGE sums of money to pay Pritzker and Post for the airline. A new management team was brought in, and Bill McGee was named Chairman, president and CEO. McGee was formerly with Piedmont Aviation, Inc. (Piedmont Airlines). Dalfort, led by Pritzker in 1988, still held a substantial stake in Braniff, Inc.
In June, 1988 BIA-COR Holdings, Inc. - Core Group led by Jeffrey Chodorow (who would reform Braniff one more time in 1991 and steal the rest of the companies' assets) and Arthur Cohen bought Braniff from Dalfort Corporation. Scot Spencer also joined the team, who, as you will find out, was thrown in jail for his involvement in Braniff III. They borrowed LARGE sums of money to pay Pritzker and Post for the airline. A new management team was brought in, and Bill McGee was named Chairman, president and CEO. McGee was formerly with Piedmont Aviation, Inc. (Piedmont Airlines). Dalfort, led by Pritzker in 1988, still held a substantial stake in Braniff, Inc.
Braniff filed for Chapter 11 on September 28th.
Braniff resumed service on October 1st for a short charter career using its 727s. It flew to 11 cities and Braniff finally called it quits at the end of December 1989.
If greed played a tiny role in Braniff Airways shutdown in 1982, and a bigger role in the shutdown of Braniff II, then it played THE STARRING role in the conception of "Braniff III." Jeffery Chodorow, with Scot Spencer, (both of whom bought Braniff II from Jay Pritzker) defrauded thousands of people and conned corporations left and right while burying the Braniff name firmly and finally into the mud.
Click here to read about the slimebags who sullied Braniff's name.
Continental Airlines:
In 1981 Texas Air Corporation, an airline holding company controlled by U.S. aviation entrepreneur and raider Frank Lorenzo, acquired Continental after a contentious battle with Continental's management who were adamantly determined to resist Lorenzo. Continental's labor unions also fiercely resisted, fearing what they termed as, "Lorenzo's deregulation tactics." During this struggle, Continental Airlines President, A. L. Feldman, committed suicide, on August 9, 1981, in his office. In the end, Texas Air Corp. prevailed. Frank Lorenzo became Continental's new Chairman and CEO. Texas International Airlines (TI), another Lorenzo holding, was merged into Continental Airlines in June 1982. TI ceased to exist and the "new Continental" relocated its headquarters to Texas Air's base in Houston, Texas.
The merger resulted in a large expansion of Continental's hub at Houston Intercontinental Airport and its extensive routes to Mexico. Airline unions fought Continental at every step. In the Federal courts, they unsuccessfully sued to stop the company's reorganization. They were successful in working to persuade Congress to pass a new bankruptcy law preventing bankrupt companies from terminating contracts as Continental had successfully done. The law was too late to affect Continental and the drastic cost cutting and changes that had rescued it from liquidation.
Frank Lorenzo took Continental into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in September 1983 after unsuccessfully attempting to negotiate a lower pay rate with labor unions. Following bankruptcy, Continental was freed of its contractual obligations and imposed a series of new labor agreement on its union workers, sharply reducing the airline's labor costs at the cost of employee morale.
This move made Continental vastly more competitive with the new airline startups then emerging and thriving in the southwestern U.S.Much of the airline was liquidated and the company was rebranded as a low-cost carrier. Continental was also forced to abandon its hub in Los Angeles although it maintained its Denver and South Pacific routes. A more streamlined, leaner Continental emerged only a few days after the bankruptcy filing, a fact which gave Continental the distinction of being the first airline to fly through bankruptcy
Lorenzo goes to Eastern Airlines:
Lorenzo and his Texas Air International oversaw a dramatic and rapid decline for Eastern Airlines, which was in a difficult but redeemable position when purchased. Although the exact causes of the decline are disputed to this day, most analysts agree that the carrier was systematically raided of valuable assets including new aircraft, its east-coast shuttle service, its lucrative fuel operations, and its worldwide travel agent computer system (SystemOne), almost all of which was sold at drastically reduced prices or given to Lorenzo's other carrier, Continental.
This combined with poor management, a worsening economy, and deteriorating labor relations forced the carrier into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1989 following a mechanics strike.
At the time it was the largest airline bankruptcy in U.S. history, a title it held until United filed after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The carrier was placed under the direction of trustee Martin Shugrue.
History unlearned??
DK
May 12 1982: Braniff International Airways
Recession, price wars and sharply rising fuel costs have gravely wounded the airline industry during the past four years. Last week those troubles claimed their first major victim. Braniff International, the ninth largest U.S. airline, declared bankruptcy. It was the first failure of a major carrier since American aviation came flying out of the barnstorming era in the 1930s.
In June, 1988:
BIA-COR Holdings, Inc. - Core Group led by Jeffrey Chodorow (who would reform Braniff one more time in 1991 and steal the rest of the companies' assets) and Arthur Cohen bought Braniff from Dalfort Corporation. Scot Spencer also joined the team, who, as you will find out, was thrown in jail for his involvement in Braniff III. They borrowed LARGE sums of money to pay Pritzker and Post for the airline. A new management team was brought in, and Bill McGee was named Chairman, president and CEO. McGee was formerly with Piedmont Aviation, Inc. (Piedmont Airlines). Dalfort, led by Pritzker in 1988, still held a substantial stake in Braniff, Inc.
In June, 1988 BIA-COR Holdings, Inc. - Core Group led by Jeffrey Chodorow (who would reform Braniff one more time in 1991 and steal the rest of the companies' assets) and Arthur Cohen bought Braniff from Dalfort Corporation. Scot Spencer also joined the team, who, as you will find out, was thrown in jail for his involvement in Braniff III. They borrowed LARGE sums of money to pay Pritzker and Post for the airline. A new management team was brought in, and Bill McGee was named Chairman, president and CEO. McGee was formerly with Piedmont Aviation, Inc. (Piedmont Airlines). Dalfort, led by Pritzker in 1988, still held a substantial stake in Braniff, Inc.
Braniff filed for Chapter 11 on September 28th.
Braniff resumed service on October 1st for a short charter career using its 727s. It flew to 11 cities and Braniff finally called it quits at the end of December 1989.
If greed played a tiny role in Braniff Airways shutdown in 1982, and a bigger role in the shutdown of Braniff II, then it played THE STARRING role in the conception of "Braniff III." Jeffery Chodorow, with Scot Spencer, (both of whom bought Braniff II from Jay Pritzker) defrauded thousands of people and conned corporations left and right while burying the Braniff name firmly and finally into the mud.
Click here to read about the slimebags who sullied Braniff's name.
Continental Airlines:
In 1981 Texas Air Corporation, an airline holding company controlled by U.S. aviation entrepreneur and raider Frank Lorenzo, acquired Continental after a contentious battle with Continental's management who were adamantly determined to resist Lorenzo. Continental's labor unions also fiercely resisted, fearing what they termed as, "Lorenzo's deregulation tactics." During this struggle, Continental Airlines President, A. L. Feldman, committed suicide, on August 9, 1981, in his office. In the end, Texas Air Corp. prevailed. Frank Lorenzo became Continental's new Chairman and CEO. Texas International Airlines (TI), another Lorenzo holding, was merged into Continental Airlines in June 1982. TI ceased to exist and the "new Continental" relocated its headquarters to Texas Air's base in Houston, Texas.
The merger resulted in a large expansion of Continental's hub at Houston Intercontinental Airport and its extensive routes to Mexico. Airline unions fought Continental at every step. In the Federal courts, they unsuccessfully sued to stop the company's reorganization. They were successful in working to persuade Congress to pass a new bankruptcy law preventing bankrupt companies from terminating contracts as Continental had successfully done. The law was too late to affect Continental and the drastic cost cutting and changes that had rescued it from liquidation.
Frank Lorenzo took Continental into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in September 1983 after unsuccessfully attempting to negotiate a lower pay rate with labor unions. Following bankruptcy, Continental was freed of its contractual obligations and imposed a series of new labor agreement on its union workers, sharply reducing the airline's labor costs at the cost of employee morale.
This move made Continental vastly more competitive with the new airline startups then emerging and thriving in the southwestern U.S.Much of the airline was liquidated and the company was rebranded as a low-cost carrier. Continental was also forced to abandon its hub in Los Angeles although it maintained its Denver and South Pacific routes. A more streamlined, leaner Continental emerged only a few days after the bankruptcy filing, a fact which gave Continental the distinction of being the first airline to fly through bankruptcy
Lorenzo goes to Eastern Airlines:
Lorenzo and his Texas Air International oversaw a dramatic and rapid decline for Eastern Airlines, which was in a difficult but redeemable position when purchased. Although the exact causes of the decline are disputed to this day, most analysts agree that the carrier was systematically raided of valuable assets including new aircraft, its east-coast shuttle service, its lucrative fuel operations, and its worldwide travel agent computer system (SystemOne), almost all of which was sold at drastically reduced prices or given to Lorenzo's other carrier, Continental.
This combined with poor management, a worsening economy, and deteriorating labor relations forced the carrier into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1989 following a mechanics strike.
At the time it was the largest airline bankruptcy in U.S. history, a title it held until United filed after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The carrier was placed under the direction of trustee Martin Shugrue.
LONG SERVING AFAP PRESIDENT CAPT DICK HOLT'S ASSESSMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL CONTRACTS MADE AT THE TIME OF THE PILOTS' DISPUTE
TO: All members of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots
FROM: Dick Holt
SUBJECT: The "Award" Applications by your Employers
Brian McCarthy has granted me the privilege of direct communication with you about the "awards" application if I wish. I do wish and I will try to contain my language.
This "award" has been carefully drawn up by and on behalf of persons having a massive dislike of pilots and which under normal standards would cause its originators to be dismissed for stupidity.
It is made possible only by a mischievous and dangerous association between parties and persons in political and commercial fields each of which has a direct vested interest in destroying the protection under which you have worked for several decades.
This is proven inter alia, by the fact that these awards would destroy by elimination, a host of protections which have nothing whatsoever to do with the Dispute at large.
It seems to me that such awards would leave you:
* without representation by your Federation
* without any bid system
* without any grievance procedures
* without any rules for the application of seniority
* locked into a system under the control of the A.C.T.U. and the Politicians of the day.
* subject to "direction" by the Industrial Relations Commission.
* without defined Loss of Licence insurance.
* without the ability to discuss new aircraft types.
* without protection from arduous tours of duty. (particularly in relation to pilot fatigue)
* without any right to be informed why you have been terminated
* without A.F.A.P. support in accident or incident investigation
* without a specified recreation leave arrangement
* without any Equipment Assignment procedures
* without any recognised input into scheduling
* without a savings clause
* without protection against enforced dual endorsements
* without any severance pay.
* without any pay calculation formula
* without recognition of non-flying time spent away from home port.
* without a controlled pay "deduction" rule
* without any input into rostering
* without adequate specified reserve duty rules (a massive loss)
* without any drafting rules
* without any pay protection for cancellation, substitution and displacement
* without any real specification of your duties performed.
and so on.
The proposed Australian Section 6B says: "It is not considered necessary nor possible to specify every detail of the duties, it being generally understood within the aviation industry what those duties comprise" (I wonder who wrote that!) The proposed Ansett award at Section 21 says: "all other conditions of employment shall be as determined by the employer".
So - you are left with your employer making all of the decisions on all of the matters listed above as and when they come up, which they surely will, and a multitude of other matters including introduction of new aircraft types.
The style of management mischief and patronage this would recreate appals me.
Another vicious section of the general approach to the Industrial Relations Commission is the request by the airline management group to set aside all General Aviation Awards - an animal act taken without any thought of the consequences, other than an insane desire to get at pilots.
All in all, this is vintage 1950 - 1959 stuff. In those days:
* you did what you were told
* you rang and begged for information about the next roster so that you could make a few plans
* accommodation was frequently vile - a two bed room over the hangar at Essendon
* a five bed dormitory in the staff quarters of a hotel in Cairns - we weren't good enough to occupy guest rooms!
* advancement - you eased respectfully into the Senior Route Captain's office and asked about your prospects, upgrading etc. The right hand opened a drawer about four inches and looked at whatever was "the list" and said something like - "maybe soon, maybe longer"
* the "good boy" system was rampant - carry the extra weight, bend the regulations etc, very much on the agenda.
I'm not being nostalgic - you may be assured that the 1990's version of that kind of treatment awaits you under such awards.
No other Association or Trade Union in Australia would accept such a disgusting recession to employer savagery and denigration of current working conditions.
Dick Holt. 4.10. 89
ABOUT DICK HOLT
Richard Tweedy Holt retired from Ansett Airlines on 29 November 1978 on his 60th birthday. The Pilots Federation was as strong as it was largely because of his tireless efforts over decades building up the organisation and because of the example of selfless purpose he set for others. (Dick served seven terms as President of the Federation). He was always quick to acknowledge the outstanding work of others, but for many it was Dick's leadership and ethics that formed a large part of the glue that bound Australian pilots together.
When he retired he made a speech which included the following observations:
"Through his seat at the front of the aircraft flow the efforts of thousands of people who provide the means by which he carries out his task. However, it is an undeniable fact that:
* His is the final responsibility.
* His is the ultimate decision in any course of action.
* He can never be complacent.
* He must be humble; the elements keep him so.
* He must prove himself to his peers over and over again throughout his career, or seek another job.
* He must exude a quiet confidence in his own ability and his aircraft.
* He must create an aura of efficiency and capability such that the passengers stream on and off the aircraft without even a thought about what is occurring at the front of the aircraft.
* Finally, he must be ready during every second of his working life to defeat the ultimate emergency he may encounter at any time."
Dick's own flying career exemplified this. On his first flight as captain on the DC9 he had to shutdown an engine in flight. On his first flight as a captain on the B727, he had an engine failure on rotation out of Sydney.
He was a pilot's pilot with a boyish love of flying, but of far greater import than that was his remarkable sense of justice and fair play. This was reflected in the democratic structure of the Pilots' Federation. He had a rare understanding of human nature, one that made him so effective. He bore his detractors and those who attempted to destroy his many year's work no rancour. As he said of those who through their actions so damaged the Pilots Federation, their profession and the careers of their former colleagues: "Their alleged character weaknesses are in us all to a certain extent and we have no right to judge them. Our job is to live by our own personal ethics and ideals and not impose those ideals on others." Dick's definition of ethical behaviour was simple: "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself."
Dick's funeral in May 2000 was attended by a large number of former colleagues from Ansett and Australian Airlines who came from around the world. A number of pilots who had returned to work during the Pilots Dispute a decade earlier came. Their presence served to remind others less embroiled, less bitter, of how highly Dick was regarded. Many felt a great sense of loss and grief during the funeral, primarily at Dick's passing of course, but inevitably at the destruction of so much that he had built up over his years of service to his profession.
As Captain Sherm said in his originating post here yesterday -
TO: All members of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots
FROM: Dick Holt
SUBJECT: The "Award" Applications by your Employers
Brian McCarthy has granted me the privilege of direct communication with you about the "awards" application if I wish. I do wish and I will try to contain my language.
This "award" has been carefully drawn up by and on behalf of persons having a massive dislike of pilots and which under normal standards would cause its originators to be dismissed for stupidity.
It is made possible only by a mischievous and dangerous association between parties and persons in political and commercial fields each of which has a direct vested interest in destroying the protection under which you have worked for several decades.
This is proven inter alia, by the fact that these awards would destroy by elimination, a host of protections which have nothing whatsoever to do with the Dispute at large.
It seems to me that such awards would leave you:
* without representation by your Federation
* without any bid system
* without any grievance procedures
* without any rules for the application of seniority
* locked into a system under the control of the A.C.T.U. and the Politicians of the day.
* subject to "direction" by the Industrial Relations Commission.
* without defined Loss of Licence insurance.
* without the ability to discuss new aircraft types.
* without protection from arduous tours of duty. (particularly in relation to pilot fatigue)
* without any right to be informed why you have been terminated
* without A.F.A.P. support in accident or incident investigation
* without a specified recreation leave arrangement
* without any Equipment Assignment procedures
* without any recognised input into scheduling
* without a savings clause
* without protection against enforced dual endorsements
* without any severance pay.
* without any pay calculation formula
* without recognition of non-flying time spent away from home port.
* without a controlled pay "deduction" rule
* without any input into rostering
* without adequate specified reserve duty rules (a massive loss)
* without any drafting rules
* without any pay protection for cancellation, substitution and displacement
* without any real specification of your duties performed.
and so on.
The proposed Australian Section 6B says: "It is not considered necessary nor possible to specify every detail of the duties, it being generally understood within the aviation industry what those duties comprise" (I wonder who wrote that!) The proposed Ansett award at Section 21 says: "all other conditions of employment shall be as determined by the employer".
So - you are left with your employer making all of the decisions on all of the matters listed above as and when they come up, which they surely will, and a multitude of other matters including introduction of new aircraft types.
The style of management mischief and patronage this would recreate appals me.
Another vicious section of the general approach to the Industrial Relations Commission is the request by the airline management group to set aside all General Aviation Awards - an animal act taken without any thought of the consequences, other than an insane desire to get at pilots.
All in all, this is vintage 1950 - 1959 stuff. In those days:
* you did what you were told
* you rang and begged for information about the next roster so that you could make a few plans
* accommodation was frequently vile - a two bed room over the hangar at Essendon
* a five bed dormitory in the staff quarters of a hotel in Cairns - we weren't good enough to occupy guest rooms!
* advancement - you eased respectfully into the Senior Route Captain's office and asked about your prospects, upgrading etc. The right hand opened a drawer about four inches and looked at whatever was "the list" and said something like - "maybe soon, maybe longer"
* the "good boy" system was rampant - carry the extra weight, bend the regulations etc, very much on the agenda.
I'm not being nostalgic - you may be assured that the 1990's version of that kind of treatment awaits you under such awards.
No other Association or Trade Union in Australia would accept such a disgusting recession to employer savagery and denigration of current working conditions.
Dick Holt. 4.10. 89
ABOUT DICK HOLT
Richard Tweedy Holt retired from Ansett Airlines on 29 November 1978 on his 60th birthday. The Pilots Federation was as strong as it was largely because of his tireless efforts over decades building up the organisation and because of the example of selfless purpose he set for others. (Dick served seven terms as President of the Federation). He was always quick to acknowledge the outstanding work of others, but for many it was Dick's leadership and ethics that formed a large part of the glue that bound Australian pilots together.
When he retired he made a speech which included the following observations:
"Through his seat at the front of the aircraft flow the efforts of thousands of people who provide the means by which he carries out his task. However, it is an undeniable fact that:
* His is the final responsibility.
* His is the ultimate decision in any course of action.
* He can never be complacent.
* He must be humble; the elements keep him so.
* He must prove himself to his peers over and over again throughout his career, or seek another job.
* He must exude a quiet confidence in his own ability and his aircraft.
* He must create an aura of efficiency and capability such that the passengers stream on and off the aircraft without even a thought about what is occurring at the front of the aircraft.
* Finally, he must be ready during every second of his working life to defeat the ultimate emergency he may encounter at any time."
Dick's own flying career exemplified this. On his first flight as captain on the DC9 he had to shutdown an engine in flight. On his first flight as a captain on the B727, he had an engine failure on rotation out of Sydney.
He was a pilot's pilot with a boyish love of flying, but of far greater import than that was his remarkable sense of justice and fair play. This was reflected in the democratic structure of the Pilots' Federation. He had a rare understanding of human nature, one that made him so effective. He bore his detractors and those who attempted to destroy his many year's work no rancour. As he said of those who through their actions so damaged the Pilots Federation, their profession and the careers of their former colleagues: "Their alleged character weaknesses are in us all to a certain extent and we have no right to judge them. Our job is to live by our own personal ethics and ideals and not impose those ideals on others." Dick's definition of ethical behaviour was simple: "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself."
Dick's funeral in May 2000 was attended by a large number of former colleagues from Ansett and Australian Airlines who came from around the world. A number of pilots who had returned to work during the Pilots Dispute a decade earlier came. Their presence served to remind others less embroiled, less bitter, of how highly Dick was regarded. Many felt a great sense of loss and grief during the funeral, primarily at Dick's passing of course, but inevitably at the destruction of so much that he had built up over his years of service to his profession.
As Captain Sherm said in his originating post here yesterday -
19 years today. Good time to remember mates long gone and those still working overseas and even sadder, those who might just never come back. A loss to us all.
To those who might reflect on a world past where there was a single, robust and respected pilot union...please reflect....and do something.
To those who feel like contributing something negative.....please don't.
To those who might reflect on a world past where there was a single, robust and respected pilot union...please reflect....and do something.
To those who feel like contributing something negative.....please don't.
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Um - KC is definitely a hero. Guaranteed.
Worth pointing out, TW, it was he, KC, who started to aggro on the thread. No genius is required to understand it was a deliberate attempt by KC to get you to shut it down. Only a hero would do it. Note all the threads from non-heros have been as Sherm requested - just a recall of life altering events.
Forget KC, TW me mate.
Worth pointing out, TW, it was he, KC, who started to aggro on the thread. No genius is required to understand it was a deliberate attempt by KC to get you to shut it down. Only a hero would do it. Note all the threads from non-heros have been as Sherm requested - just a recall of life altering events.
Forget KC, TW me mate.
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Kangaroo Caught
FYI I joined the executive after the dispute started (Sept 89). With your exemplory communications skills I gather you would have not been much of a loss after the dispute.
FYI I joined the executive after the dispute started (Sept 89). With your exemplory communications skills I gather you would have not been much of a loss after the dispute.
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OH, so I get it. The pilot's dispute was MY fault? Okay then! Maybe it was a good thing that it happened after all. At least I got a good job overseas, others weren't so lucky to have married a foreigner that gave almost world wide domicile capability.
Anyway, I think Theresa Green said it best. Learn from what happened; but why ever you've got guys up here rationalizing stealing jobs from each other under the latest greenfields scam, we've got a long way to go.
Anyway, I think Theresa Green said it best. Learn from what happened; but why ever you've got guys up here rationalizing stealing jobs from each other under the latest greenfields scam, we've got a long way to go.
Captain Sherm in an earlier thread -
And from john tullamarine, responding to -
"Sadly, there is always that small minority of "professionals" that can't move on and let old animosities rest."
Here’s a perspective….just one but it’s all I’ve got……
Many things have defined my career. Some, each time I read about them, replay themselves so vividly in my mind I feel the pain and emotion of actually being there, yet I wasn’t…. the United DC-10 at Sioux City…..Neil Williams doing his inverted approach in a Zlin….the Korean 747 at Guam…..the American DC-10 at ORD….the BOAC 707 engine fire at LHR…..and many more. I give thanks that people like Davies wrote “Handling the Big Jets”….that Gann wrote “Fate is the Hunter”….that Johns wrote the “Biggles” stories, that St Exupery wrote “Wind, Sand and Stars” and “The little Prince”….that Bennett wrote the “Complete Air Navigator”…that Kermode wrote “The Mechanics of Flight”……that I saw “Dawn Patrol” and “The Dam Busters”, “The Great Santini” and “The High and the Mighty”, that I read “The Flight of the Intruder” and “Goodbye Mickey Mouse” and that Cecil Lewis put pen to paper for the generations that followed. I can’t forget flying with a survivor of the TAA Viscount crash at Mangalore….I can’t forget being interviewed by Chief Pilot who had flown a Convair down the Brisbane River with an engine in reverse pitch…….or a Chief Check and Training Captain who had rowed at my old school and but months later was flying P-40s in the desert…….
Thus with the “Dispute”. It happened. And I was actually there. I could no more forget it than forget my name or any of the thousand stories that make up the lore of aviation and sit in my treasure box alongside rapidly tarnishing wings and gold bars. I cannot forget the years that my children grew up without me close. I cannot forget polar routes across the Arctic, new airlines and lost airlines, wide-eyed junior F/O’s and the sheer joy of sunrise after long Pacific crossings and the Northern Lights. All so far from home.
Don’t ask me to “get over it”. Don’t ask me to forget that some colleagues voted in secret ballots to encourage me to persist….yet had already signed “contracts”…..that Hawke was ready to do, say or spend anything to do his masters’ bidding….and that many….my family included, could not see why I wouldn’t cross a picket line to save my life. I cannot ever forget that. I can never forget pilots who parroted the mantras “What’s the Federation done for me?”….”I made a decision for my family”….I just took my job back”….as though those oft-repeated words from an Abeles script could hide the treachery beneath.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.
Many things have defined my career. Some, each time I read about them, replay themselves so vividly in my mind I feel the pain and emotion of actually being there, yet I wasn’t…. the United DC-10 at Sioux City…..Neil Williams doing his inverted approach in a Zlin….the Korean 747 at Guam…..the American DC-10 at ORD….the BOAC 707 engine fire at LHR…..and many more. I give thanks that people like Davies wrote “Handling the Big Jets”….that Gann wrote “Fate is the Hunter”….that Johns wrote the “Biggles” stories, that St Exupery wrote “Wind, Sand and Stars” and “The little Prince”….that Bennett wrote the “Complete Air Navigator”…that Kermode wrote “The Mechanics of Flight”……that I saw “Dawn Patrol” and “The Dam Busters”, “The Great Santini” and “The High and the Mighty”, that I read “The Flight of the Intruder” and “Goodbye Mickey Mouse” and that Cecil Lewis put pen to paper for the generations that followed. I can’t forget flying with a survivor of the TAA Viscount crash at Mangalore….I can’t forget being interviewed by Chief Pilot who had flown a Convair down the Brisbane River with an engine in reverse pitch…….or a Chief Check and Training Captain who had rowed at my old school and but months later was flying P-40s in the desert…….
Thus with the “Dispute”. It happened. And I was actually there. I could no more forget it than forget my name or any of the thousand stories that make up the lore of aviation and sit in my treasure box alongside rapidly tarnishing wings and gold bars. I cannot forget the years that my children grew up without me close. I cannot forget polar routes across the Arctic, new airlines and lost airlines, wide-eyed junior F/O’s and the sheer joy of sunrise after long Pacific crossings and the Northern Lights. All so far from home.
Don’t ask me to “get over it”. Don’t ask me to forget that some colleagues voted in secret ballots to encourage me to persist….yet had already signed “contracts”…..that Hawke was ready to do, say or spend anything to do his masters’ bidding….and that many….my family included, could not see why I wouldn’t cross a picket line to save my life. I cannot ever forget that. I can never forget pilots who parroted the mantras “What’s the Federation done for me?”….”I made a decision for my family”….I just took my job back”….as though those oft-repeated words from an Abeles script could hide the treachery beneath.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.
"Sadly, there is always that small minority of "professionals" that can't move on and let old animosities rest."
Whether animosities persist or not, they ought not to be pursued with vigour in PPRuNe ... the dispute participants will be/are approaching (or already have arrived at) senility and, as individuals, eventually will be long forgotten by the Industry.
Individuals, however, retain the prerogative of choosing with whom they might enjoy a drink ...
The Government/Airlines/Unions were able to do incredible damage to a group and the country.. I am mindful that the pilot group backed off rapidly once it all turned pear shaped .. but the other side would have none of that .. and that action (in my insular view) probably was responsible for the dreadful things which followed ....
This suggests that future pilot groups dare not forget the basic Industrial considerations relevant to the dispute .. lest they be tempted to commit similar acts of stupidity as were demonstrated (on both sides) in the lead up to the 89 stoush and the following six months or so.
Individuals, however, retain the prerogative of choosing with whom they might enjoy a drink ...
The Government/Airlines/Unions were able to do incredible damage to a group and the country.. I am mindful that the pilot group backed off rapidly once it all turned pear shaped .. but the other side would have none of that .. and that action (in my insular view) probably was responsible for the dreadful things which followed ....
This suggests that future pilot groups dare not forget the basic Industrial considerations relevant to the dispute .. lest they be tempted to commit similar acts of stupidity as were demonstrated (on both sides) in the lead up to the 89 stoush and the following six months or so.
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Tailwheeler, reckon Knumb Knuts is right, Kanga Court is just trying to get you to close the thread.If Kanga is genuine about his claim not to have been involved, it begs belief he wants to have you lock the thread when it is complying with your standards.
Let those who want to share the experience with their colleagues at this time reminisce somewhat.
Cheers
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Hear is some facts which happened to me as an individual in the mess of 19 years ago
My phone was tapped
My life was threatened
As was my wife's
AS WAS MY CHILDREN'S
I was followed around my small semi country town until the local brigade sent him off
My exact hotel location in Europe was reported to my wife as I was in the company of "a beautiful young lady", and as my daughter they were quite right, she was and is.
I will remember all this, I have "got on with life" as so many have suggested we "must do" and am still contributing to Aviation in so called retirement, never been busier or happier in real terms.
JUST NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN, FIND SOME COMMON GROUND TO SORT IT ALL OUT IF THE CURRENT PILOTS HAVE THE WILL.
My phone was tapped
My life was threatened
As was my wife's
AS WAS MY CHILDREN'S
I was followed around my small semi country town until the local brigade sent him off
My exact hotel location in Europe was reported to my wife as I was in the company of "a beautiful young lady", and as my daughter they were quite right, she was and is.
I will remember all this, I have "got on with life" as so many have suggested we "must do" and am still contributing to Aviation in so called retirement, never been busier or happier in real terms.
JUST NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN, FIND SOME COMMON GROUND TO SORT IT ALL OUT IF THE CURRENT PILOTS HAVE THE WILL.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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It's good to see there are still some constants in life, even if they have to include Amos2's diatribes about his pet "scabs" and anyone who worked for Ansett during the dispute and resultant strike.
Whatever your side of the fence, don't ever let it happen again; for your sake, and those of your families, stay strong!
Onya, sunshine!!!
Whatever your side of the fence, don't ever let it happen again; for your sake, and those of your families, stay strong!
Onya, sunshine!!!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Ah the great Dicky Holt, in my day a better leader never born. Going thru the things he did for us, amazing. Yes we did have to share accomodation, I remember my first officer and myself had to share in Cairns one night, neither of us getting any sleep due to the very amorous goings on in the room next door. We ended up playing cards all night. (we later found out it was one of our very own flight attendents with a new found boyfriend and yes, I did have a little chat with her!)another great leader was Buck Brooksbank, always on the side of the pilots, both he and Dicky had the ability to negotiate and convince even a eskimo he needed to buy a fridge. Two excellent pilots, two good Australians. Buck is still with us, hale and healthy living in BNE. My regrets of the dispute: never to get to say goodbye to my father who died before I could get home from Europe, taking the children away from beloved grandparents, ditto their school, the destruction of a much loved family dog, the sale of a family home, the loss of friends, who I thought were true, terrible homesickness for us all, the bravery of my little kids, trying so hard to understand a new language, a new culture, and my dear wife who suffered a breakdown, and so bravely tried to cope for my sake. On the good side (and there always is a good side) the children learnt another language, it taught them to consider other races, it taught me how flying in OZ is a piece of cake compared to Europe and gave me new skills, we visited art gallerys, zoos, that we enjoyed, but most of all it taught us that we live in the best country in the world and to appreciate it. So my hope for you all is that you are NEVER forced to leave what you love, but do so because you want to, you are NEVER forced to leave your job, you do so because you want to, and you are NEVER forced to take sides against mates you would normally walk over glass for. If it never happens again to our fellow pilots then at least we have achieved something.
Moderator
(a) the sad thing is that here we are, 20 years or so on, and the newchums are already doing their utmost to forget/ignore the lessons learned
(b) if you run into Buckhurst, remind him that he owes us a meal ..... had his moments but not a bad sort of bloke ...
(b) if you run into Buckhurst, remind him that he owes us a meal ..... had his moments but not a bad sort of bloke ...
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the sad thing is that here we are, 20 years or so on, and the newchums are already doing their utmost to forget/ignore the lessons learned
Reading some of the almost virulent "get over it!" comments here on Pprune from younger Australian pilots who weren't involved in the events we speak of here, I sometimes find myself wondering if these people haven't been unduly influenced, (perhaps even unconsciously), by hearing only the (to be not too unkind, let's call it 'self-serving') version of events of those days from those stalwart individuals who 'remained behind'. Or, to put it another way, whose heroic deeds 'left them in possession of the battlefield'.
I certainly would not be the person I am today had I remained in my safe little coocoon flying domesticly in Australia, as I was content to do until I was forced to look elsewhere. I say 'forced', because even today, knowing what the decision not to 'get all heroic' cost me (and even moreso, my wife and family) both emotionally and financially, I don't think I could have made that journey into head office to sign on the dotted line.
I can't begin to comprehend what that journey must have cost the individuals who made it in what must have been a dreadful loss of self esteem.
Even those who make light of what they did, like the Americans and Brits who flew half way around the world to take up the Australian jobs (in circumstances that even the most insular and ill-informed of them must have known without a shadow of a doubt were dodgy in the extreme) must have their moments of introspection, perhaps late at night.
However, as others have said, to the younger ones, the main message remains: learn from the mistakes we made - and don't make similar ones yourself. I fear there are too many out there who haven't taken this message in.
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The lesson is: NEVER start an industrial dispute when (a) the owner of the airline is running the country by jerking the PM's chain, and (b), the leader of the imitation yoonyun mooment is a mate of both the above.