PB jet warned by ATC about very low speed
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PB jet warned by ATC about very low speed
Heard a Chc area radar controller call a Pb jet twice last night and confirm he was ops normal and his speed was very low.
No response to the first call and after the second call the only response was that they were speeding up now.
How low does a jets speed have to get before a controller warns the pilots?
Sounded like very sharp work by the controller
No response to the first call and after the second call the only response was that they were speeding up now.
How low does a jets speed have to get before a controller warns the pilots?
Sounded like very sharp work by the controller
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Heard a Chc area radar controller call a Pb jet twice last night and confirm he was ops normal and his speed was very low.
If it was an area contoller I presume it was above 10000' or so......
Were they in descent, climbing, or in the cruise?
Mayby they had an arrival or gate restriction to comply with....its not unheard of in Aoteoroa
Or mayby CI=0 ?
When you file a flight plan you are required to nominate a true air speed and have to advise ATC if you want to deviate from that speed by more than a certain amount.
Prehaps ATC have an alarm system for speed deviations like they have for altitude busts ???
Prehaps ATC have an alarm system for speed deviations like they have for altitude busts ???
.... or perhaps they had someone else coming fair up their coite!
as happened to me years back just after the J* folks got the A320s, following one on the marub 3 off 34R - we had accel'd to 250 when ATC asked the J* if ops were normal, no response... another call telling them of a low ground speed (150 i think). We were vectored off then ATC finally got a grumbling response to which the ATCo gave an earful!
as happened to me years back just after the J* folks got the A320s, following one on the marub 3 off 34R - we had accel'd to 250 when ATC asked the J* if ops were normal, no response... another call telling them of a low ground speed (150 i think). We were vectored off then ATC finally got a grumbling response to which the ATCo gave an earful!
Last edited by maggot; 3rd Jul 2008 at 04:15. Reason: gremmar
Following a Chinese A340 into Syd a couple of years ago. Nice day IVA's. We were on downwind with 20 miles to run doing about 240KIAS. The old mate in the airbus was becoming established on a 14 mile final with a wicked nose up attitude. As we were on base, I queried ATC as to his speed, to which the A340 replied 135Kts at 13 miles! So Krusty, you had better slow down. Apparently this was normal SOP for them for a stabilised approach.
Different situation I know, but just goes to show.
Different situation I know, but just goes to show.
Stabilised at 13 miles is better than unstabilised at 1000', just give them plenty of room and let them get on with it.
I remember being called up one day over speed on descent in a PA31, I'd filed 165kts TAS (I think, memory a bit rusty), but was going quite a bit quicker. They do notice.
I remember being called up one day over speed on descent in a PA31, I'd filed 165kts TAS (I think, memory a bit rusty), but was going quite a bit quicker. They do notice.
Nunc est bibendum
Took off in a 767 about three minutes after a MAS 744 also flying SYD-MEL. We were parked on blox at gate 21 before he had touched down. We had overtaken him by WOL! 
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Keg
I was on your 767 if it was QF443 at 3:00pm last Thursday - I noticed the same thing. MAS took such a long lumbering climb I thought he must have been bunkering fuel or some such thing . . . and two out the four engines were quite dirty.
Nice flying by the way . . . were you the FO standing at the cockpit door smiling to the departing SLF?
Cheers
Pedota
I was on your 767 if it was QF443 at 3:00pm last Thursday - I noticed the same thing. MAS took such a long lumbering climb I thought he must have been bunkering fuel or some such thing . . . and two out the four engines were quite dirty.
Nice flying by the way . . . were you the FO standing at the cockpit door smiling to the departing SLF?
Cheers
Pedota
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I'm not having a go at Choice Bro...but 15000' at 55 track miles to run (for those who don't know CHC, it's about - for ease of figures - 10 nm to land from OD to CHC) seems reasonable in all the jet types I've flown.
If the grey matter between the ears were consulted a little more often than simply blind obedience to the 'funny little green box', then the whole shooting match might work a bit better.
Try amending the descent speed from it's cost index default to cruise MN into 300 KIAS - I bet it'd work every time (ignoring massive tailwind). A different kind of energy management!
Used to use 21000' at 60 to run in some types, 18000' at 60 to run in the others. Either way, the CHC STAR constraint should be easy to meet without slowing up.
If the grey matter between the ears were consulted a little more often than simply blind obedience to the 'funny little green box', then the whole shooting match might work a bit better.
Try amending the descent speed from it's cost index default to cruise MN into 300 KIAS - I bet it'd work every time (ignoring massive tailwind). A different kind of energy management!
Used to use 21000' at 60 to run in some types, 18000' at 60 to run in the others. Either way, the CHC STAR constraint should be easy to meet without slowing up.
With the cost of fuel starting to bite big time 'low' speeds will probably become the norm as airlines enforce a 'fly the CI speed' policy.
In our outfit it typically works out at 255kts. Try that into a 100Kt H/w and watch the eyeballs water.
In our outfit it typically works out at 255kts. Try that into a 100Kt H/w and watch the eyeballs water.
CHC in July-September... Add 140kts knots up your clacker and its a different kettle of fish, then 210 kts at 15 miles and 6000 at 22 miles... makes for an interesting night flying. LOVE IT
I guess if you really suck, with that wind just "ride the wave".. gets you down every time
I guess if you really suck, with that wind just "ride the wave".. gets you down every time
Nunc est bibendum
Pedota, wouldn't have been me. I've been off the 767 for a couple of years and am still jumping through some fiery hoops in the sim before they let me back into the jet again.
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I remember being called up one day over speed on descent in a PA31, I'd filed 165kts TAS (I think, memory a bit rusty), but was going quite a bit quicker. They do notice.
We notice when a PA31 gets a ground speed above 230Kts (without a huge tailwind); or when you are catching a Dash 8 or a jet on a similar track.
As an ATC it's never about TAS; that's what our system uses (really badly); we'll be concentrating on your IAS and or your ground speed.
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Choice Bro, you mean to tell me that even after cunningly creating 7 or 8 pages of new and difficult to understand pages of STARs for NZCH and then cunningly putting the written descriptions on whole different pages than the diagrammes so that you need 10 pages clipped to your control column (instead of the old two) if you are not a regular into there, that you are still not happy. I suppose you are one of those lazy people who think AIP is there to make life easier for you..I think you must be one of those strange people who like their documents easy to understand..ridiculous
