Merged: Aero Tropics Grounded.
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Crashdummy, I may be missing something in your posts but if you are suggesting that there should be no recourse to the courts by way of an appeal against a CASA decision then you seriously need to consider what you are saying. In effect, CASA would be unrestrained.
I again make the point that by the time any aviation matter, such as an appeal against the cancellation of an AOC, gets to court it does not require special aviation knowledge. What is being decided is whether the decision is right in law, not whether it is right in fact. They are entirely different things.
I again make the point that by the time any aviation matter, such as an appeal against the cancellation of an AOC, gets to court it does not require special aviation knowledge. What is being decided is whether the decision is right in law, not whether it is right in fact. They are entirely different things.
It seems Ric will be on the news saying the shut down has cost about $1million.I wonder if there will be an attempt to recoup some of these losses.
Maybe more interesting times ahead for everyone involved
Maybe more interesting times ahead for everyone involved
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crashdummy, I cannot disagree with you more strongly and no, I am not trying to drum up business for my former profession.
This is the link to the actual hearing:
http://www.austlii.edu.au//au/cases/.../2008/866.html
Please note that it was an interlocutory application only and it was purely about interpretation of the law or more accurately, what law should apply.
The matter is far from resolved but essentially it was an argument that CASA was attempting to put the company out of business by removing the Chief Pilot and Check Pilot. It was argued that if CASA had removed the company's AOC then under changes made in 2003 there would have been an automatic suspension of the decision pending any appeal whereas that did not apply by removing the personnel.
Now, the judge concerned did not necessarily agree with that but felt that there was sufficient arguable evidence to permit the application. The matter is now off to the AAT where all manner of slings and arrows can be set off without any responsibility. Unfortunately, those proceedings are not published. Paragraph 12 is the guts of the decision.
This is the link to the actual hearing:
http://www.austlii.edu.au//au/cases/.../2008/866.html
Please note that it was an interlocutory application only and it was purely about interpretation of the law or more accurately, what law should apply.
The matter is far from resolved but essentially it was an argument that CASA was attempting to put the company out of business by removing the Chief Pilot and Check Pilot. It was argued that if CASA had removed the company's AOC then under changes made in 2003 there would have been an automatic suspension of the decision pending any appeal whereas that did not apply by removing the personnel.
Now, the judge concerned did not necessarily agree with that but felt that there was sufficient arguable evidence to permit the application. The matter is now off to the AAT where all manner of slings and arrows can be set off without any responsibility. Unfortunately, those proceedings are not published. Paragraph 12 is the guts of the decision.
Last edited by PLovett; 3rd Jul 2008 at 05:50. Reason: A senior moment.
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Alice
It seems Ric will be on the news saying the shut down has cost about $1million.I wonder if there will be an attempt to recoup some of these losses.
Qantas pilots slam air safety regulator | The Australian
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Two dogs, you may be right as I got the link from thread about the Senate hearings and I didn't check the date. The hearing on 1 July may well have been the AAT hearing and unfortunately, as I said, their proceedings are not published. Pity, as the guts of the CASA argument would have been set out there.
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Get your facts straight never heard of "Micheal Keating" it does your creadibility no good
I see in the local Weipa paper (quality journalism) that CASA and Troppo's are in court this coming Friday 18th. Anyone want to take bets on the outcome this time around? Good luck to the guys and girls hope it all goes well and there is not too much of this 
going on!
going on!
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Read all about it.
If you read Bill Hamilton's sbmission to the senate inquiry into casa you will see why these things are allowed to happen, and the structural problem which exists, and allows casa to do virtually anything they like. If left unchecked we could see an "authority" that is not answerable to the parliament or the courts, or anyone else.
Read ALL of it, and think about it. Bill is a retired Qantas 747 captain who has about 50 years experience in aviation.
Read ALL of it, and think about it. Bill is a retired Qantas 747 captain who has about 50 years experience in aviation.
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From your experience do you think the pilots should remain with Troppo's or should they start looking for a new job?
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AT is advertising for new pilots. CASA attempt to shutdown AT by pulling the CP appr. is before the AAT and has a stay on it. New CP in the pipeline. Expect business as usual unless CASA goes PR political again.
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CASA media release - Saturday 4 October 2008
CASA suspends Far North Queensland airline
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority suspended the operations of Cairns-based airline Lip Air Pty Ltd on Friday 3 October 2008.
Lip Air – which trades as Aero Tropics – was suspended because CASA believes there were, and are, serious and imminent risks to the safety of passengers travelling on the airline.
The safety of passengers is CASA's number one priority.
The airline has been grounded immediately. CASA will now make an application to the Federal Court to maintain the suspension for a period sufficient to allow CASA to complete its investigations, up to a maximum of 40 days.
At the completion of its investigations into safety deficiencies at Lip Air, CASA may seek to cancel the airline's air operator's certificate.
CASA has been looking closely into safety problems at Lip Air since September 2007. The airline and key personnel have been subject to a number of actions by CASA, taken to achieve improvements in safety performance.
On 27 June 2008, CASA suspended Lip Air's air operator's certificate. The Federal Court lifted that suspension on 2 July 2008 after imposing conditions on Lip Air's operations.
CASA has since imposed a number of strict new conditions on the airline, and has been closely monitoring Lip Air's adherence to these conditions to ensure critical operational safety outcomes are achieved.
In recent days CASA has discovered further evidence that safety standards within Lip Air have deteriorated, posing an unacceptable risk to aviation safety.
CASA's safety concerns with Lip Air centre on the systems relating to training, checking and supervision of the company's pilots.
Media contact:
Michelle Harris
mobile 0419 296 446
Ref: MR12608
CASA suspends Far North Queensland airline
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority suspended the operations of Cairns-based airline Lip Air Pty Ltd on Friday 3 October 2008.
Lip Air – which trades as Aero Tropics – was suspended because CASA believes there were, and are, serious and imminent risks to the safety of passengers travelling on the airline.
The safety of passengers is CASA's number one priority.
The airline has been grounded immediately. CASA will now make an application to the Federal Court to maintain the suspension for a period sufficient to allow CASA to complete its investigations, up to a maximum of 40 days.
At the completion of its investigations into safety deficiencies at Lip Air, CASA may seek to cancel the airline's air operator's certificate.
CASA has been looking closely into safety problems at Lip Air since September 2007. The airline and key personnel have been subject to a number of actions by CASA, taken to achieve improvements in safety performance.
On 27 June 2008, CASA suspended Lip Air's air operator's certificate. The Federal Court lifted that suspension on 2 July 2008 after imposing conditions on Lip Air's operations.
CASA has since imposed a number of strict new conditions on the airline, and has been closely monitoring Lip Air's adherence to these conditions to ensure critical operational safety outcomes are achieved.
In recent days CASA has discovered further evidence that safety standards within Lip Air have deteriorated, posing an unacceptable risk to aviation safety.
CASA's safety concerns with Lip Air centre on the systems relating to training, checking and supervision of the company's pilots.
Media contact:
Michelle Harris
mobile 0419 296 446
Ref: MR12608
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New CP only started 1 Sept. He spent the last 4 weeks running around, jumping through CASA hoops to get approvals before the only either C&T pilot's approval was pulled 30 Sep.
Do not, I repeat NOT, ever give any information to a CASA FOI you don't have to. They are not there to help and they exploit the fact that some seem to believe they may be sympathetic if you tell them your problems and what you're doing about them. They aren't. None of them.
Do not, I repeat NOT, ever give any information to a CASA FOI you don't have to. They are not there to help and they exploit the fact that some seem to believe they may be sympathetic if you tell them your problems and what you're doing about them. They aren't. None of them.