"Nobody does more to grow the pool of skilled pilots in this country than we do"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
"Nobody does more to grow the pool of skilled pilots in this country than we do"
Another Dixon Classic.
Sorry Geoff, you do very little.
You take already qualified pilots from GA and the Military and use the experience they have for Qantas' gain.
You start cadet courses and the entrants must pay for their own aviation education. When they are finished you place them in positions in Qantaslink in the hope they can ameliorate the problems YOU cause by not giving YOUR Qantaslink pilots a decent career path. In one way though your statement runs true... you grow the pool of skilled pilots available for your competition to gratefully accept.
You start an airline that seeks to lower the wages and conditions of Australian pilots by employing pilots who are desperate for any life-line to keep their families in Australia and then screw them unmercifully, and when these tactics means that people think twice about actually applying to this airline, you seek to bring in foreign pilots, mainly from recently failed airlines who are also desparate for any job in a civilized country. You maintain this line even when many experienced pilots sit in mainline who could easily fill those positions under the provisions of an MOU you signed, but that would be a cost and an industrial backward step for you.
So spare us. The Journos never seem to question these utterances but those of us in the industry, who have seen the devastation you have wreaked on the working life of pilots in this country, are not prepared to let this one go unanswered.
Sorry Geoff, you do very little.
You take already qualified pilots from GA and the Military and use the experience they have for Qantas' gain.
You start cadet courses and the entrants must pay for their own aviation education. When they are finished you place them in positions in Qantaslink in the hope they can ameliorate the problems YOU cause by not giving YOUR Qantaslink pilots a decent career path. In one way though your statement runs true... you grow the pool of skilled pilots available for your competition to gratefully accept.
You start an airline that seeks to lower the wages and conditions of Australian pilots by employing pilots who are desperate for any life-line to keep their families in Australia and then screw them unmercifully, and when these tactics means that people think twice about actually applying to this airline, you seek to bring in foreign pilots, mainly from recently failed airlines who are also desparate for any job in a civilized country. You maintain this line even when many experienced pilots sit in mainline who could easily fill those positions under the provisions of an MOU you signed, but that would be a cost and an industrial backward step for you.
So spare us. The Journos never seem to question these utterances but those of us in the industry, who have seen the devastation you have wreaked on the working life of pilots in this country, are not prepared to let this one go unanswered.
Grandpa Aerotart
A little harsh there Kremin.
Dickson didn't start J* he bought it, Impulse, and the pilots that worked there at the time, some are mates of mine, can't believe their luck as they have watch their pay go from 90k all in as a 717 skipper to over 200k in a good year and probably circa 160 in the bad years that may be around the corner.
One reason QF cannot let too many pilots go under the MOU is mainline is not overly endowed with pilot numbers either.
The progression problems from Qlink have been an open festering wound for decades...initially it was AFAP/AIPA who couldn't broker a deal...certainly of late Dickson has weighed in and blocked it. Perhaps because he is cognisant of the ramifications as seen in the US where the training budgets are enormously inflated by training up in the good times and training down in the bad...across several wholly owned regionals as well as mainline.
Perhaps the less like the US airline model that QF et al looks the better for all concerned.
The man is certainly not my favorite human being but at some point you have to recognise that management job imperatives are vastly broader than a pilots.
Criticise him all you like for less than great leadership skills but I struggle to see where he can be criticised for his management skills...they are almost two different things...the individuals who successfully blend them end up remembered as 'great'...he won't be remembered as 'great' but neither will he be remembered as 'hopeless', I think.
Dickson didn't start J* he bought it, Impulse, and the pilots that worked there at the time, some are mates of mine, can't believe their luck as they have watch their pay go from 90k all in as a 717 skipper to over 200k in a good year and probably circa 160 in the bad years that may be around the corner.
One reason QF cannot let too many pilots go under the MOU is mainline is not overly endowed with pilot numbers either.
The progression problems from Qlink have been an open festering wound for decades...initially it was AFAP/AIPA who couldn't broker a deal...certainly of late Dickson has weighed in and blocked it. Perhaps because he is cognisant of the ramifications as seen in the US where the training budgets are enormously inflated by training up in the good times and training down in the bad...across several wholly owned regionals as well as mainline.
Perhaps the less like the US airline model that QF et al looks the better for all concerned.
The man is certainly not my favorite human being but at some point you have to recognise that management job imperatives are vastly broader than a pilots.
Criticise him all you like for less than great leadership skills but I struggle to see where he can be criticised for his management skills...they are almost two different things...the individuals who successfully blend them end up remembered as 'great'...he won't be remembered as 'great' but neither will he be remembered as 'hopeless', I think.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chimbu I don't agree.
That Allco fiasco was hopeless. And selfish.
The demoralisation of Qantas employees is disgraceful and hopeless management. Investor colleagues of mine won't touch Qantas, not because of fundamental business strategy errors but because Dixon's despised staff are so pissed-off that these businessmen can't fathom investing in any business with such an antagonistic workplace. To treat staff with such derision is not good business sense it is hopeless.
Ansett went under partly becuase of too many aircraft types for such a small airline (hopeless management). Qantas is repeating that nonsense. 737's and A320's. 767's and A330's, 747's and A380's. What a stupid duplication and unnecessary complication. That is not good management it is hopeless.
This whole Jetstar thing has been a tactic to stick it up Qantas employees. But what damage has that done to the Qantas entity. It seems to be withdrawing from many destinations and shrinking elsewhere. Is that good for Qantas. No.
Regarding pilot training - Qantas (Ansett and TAA and Virgin are/were no different) simply suck GA and the military dry without putting anything back. That's not contributing that's just Hopeless PR spin.
Dixon was and is IMHO a hopeless manager. The sychophantic press won't say that (largely) because advertising budgets won't allow it. But the managers of the airline in 5-10 years will curse him for his short-sighted business plan. As usual however, those who perpetrated such nonsense will be sitting at home smugly quaffing Moet and celebrating their own self-serving genius.
HOPELESS.
That Allco fiasco was hopeless. And selfish.
The demoralisation of Qantas employees is disgraceful and hopeless management. Investor colleagues of mine won't touch Qantas, not because of fundamental business strategy errors but because Dixon's despised staff are so pissed-off that these businessmen can't fathom investing in any business with such an antagonistic workplace. To treat staff with such derision is not good business sense it is hopeless.
Ansett went under partly becuase of too many aircraft types for such a small airline (hopeless management). Qantas is repeating that nonsense. 737's and A320's. 767's and A330's, 747's and A380's. What a stupid duplication and unnecessary complication. That is not good management it is hopeless.
This whole Jetstar thing has been a tactic to stick it up Qantas employees. But what damage has that done to the Qantas entity. It seems to be withdrawing from many destinations and shrinking elsewhere. Is that good for Qantas. No.
Regarding pilot training - Qantas (Ansett and TAA and Virgin are/were no different) simply suck GA and the military dry without putting anything back. That's not contributing that's just Hopeless PR spin.
Dixon was and is IMHO a hopeless manager. The sychophantic press won't say that (largely) because advertising budgets won't allow it. But the managers of the airline in 5-10 years will curse him for his short-sighted business plan. As usual however, those who perpetrated such nonsense will be sitting at home smugly quaffing Moet and celebrating their own self-serving genius.
HOPELESS.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is the most acidic of workplaces...
I came to aviation having been in different industries and different capacities. t is the most aggressive and poorly managed company I have ever observed.
The rising tide has lifted all boats (Mao) and Dixon was sitting in the seat. Replicating the airline with another one is no great invention....
It adds complexity and diverts effort....
Continued encroachment by our competitors, old disfunctional machinery..Killing the golden brand to prove an industrial point...
When the tide recedes we will find out just who was swimming without clothes. He was nothing but incredibly lucky. His "vision" will be cursed if we are fortunate enough to have good management, distinct from the wannabes. Anyone can "manage" in good times, good managers are made of bad times.
I came to aviation having been in different industries and different capacities. t is the most aggressive and poorly managed company I have ever observed.
The rising tide has lifted all boats (Mao) and Dixon was sitting in the seat. Replicating the airline with another one is no great invention....
It adds complexity and diverts effort....
Continued encroachment by our competitors, old disfunctional machinery..Killing the golden brand to prove an industrial point...
When the tide recedes we will find out just who was swimming without clothes. He was nothing but incredibly lucky. His "vision" will be cursed if we are fortunate enough to have good management, distinct from the wannabes. Anyone can "manage" in good times, good managers are made of bad times.
