VAustralia New Routes
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sydney, NSW Australia
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BO43........How about the reported collapse of international air travel markets (particularly the leisure market) due to the global financial 'meltdown' which is threatening the jobs of all the typical discount travellers.
Or what about survival instincts of all the major incumbent airlines in the current climate who will act decisively to protect their existing customer base now and into the future from the further threat of additional competition.
Now don't you think THAT might beat a shiny new (and very, very, expensive) 777-ER?
Or what about survival instincts of all the major incumbent airlines in the current climate who will act decisively to protect their existing customer base now and into the future from the further threat of additional competition.
Now don't you think THAT might beat a shiny new (and very, very, expensive) 777-ER?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Right on Oracle.
Glad someone has injected a sense of reality into this topic. You would have to be in cloud cuckoo land to think this operation has a long term future in the existing dire economic conditions across the world.
With major world economies starting to experience worrying rises in unemployment, international recreational air travel will be near the bottom of people's priorities.
VAustralia was conceived in much better economic circumstances and had those circumstances continued, may well have succeeded. Things are very different now and I just don't understand why BG and co. has persisted in throwing good money after bad.
Glad someone has injected a sense of reality into this topic. You would have to be in cloud cuckoo land to think this operation has a long term future in the existing dire economic conditions across the world.
With major world economies starting to experience worrying rises in unemployment, international recreational air travel will be near the bottom of people's priorities.
VAustralia was conceived in much better economic circumstances and had those circumstances continued, may well have succeeded. Things are very different now and I just don't understand why BG and co. has persisted in throwing good money after bad.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Dale,
I suspect that for BG and Co. the 'known' penalties for not proceeding (the real $$$ costs associated with A/C contract terminations combined with their perception of a position in global markets), far outweighs their ability to perceive the hitherto 'unknown' possibility of commercial failure!!
In greek mythology, Narcissus was so attracted by the beauty of his image reflected in a pool that he fell in and drowned. Perhaps a similar emotional environment exists in the Brisbane Boardroom. The DJ share price clearly shows the investment community does not share such narcissistic optimism for their current business plan!!
I suspect that for BG and Co. the 'known' penalties for not proceeding (the real $$$ costs associated with A/C contract terminations combined with their perception of a position in global markets), far outweighs their ability to perceive the hitherto 'unknown' possibility of commercial failure!!
In greek mythology, Narcissus was so attracted by the beauty of his image reflected in a pool that he fell in and drowned. Perhaps a similar emotional environment exists in the Brisbane Boardroom. The DJ share price clearly shows the investment community does not share such narcissistic optimism for their current business plan!!
Morning ORACLE, Dale.
ORACLE, on a somewhat smaller scale I know, but I was chatting to a certain manager (WL) about the folly of going ahead with an expansion some 18 months ago, despite all indications (in this case lack of crew) that it was doomed to failure. His answer to me, "What were we supposed to do, we had gone too far to stop"!!! The rest as they say, was history.
It's a sad testament to management at these operations, where the power of wishful thinking appears to rule over even basic common sense!
ORACLE, on a somewhat smaller scale I know, but I was chatting to a certain manager (WL) about the folly of going ahead with an expansion some 18 months ago, despite all indications (in this case lack of crew) that it was doomed to failure. His answer to me, "What were we supposed to do, we had gone too far to stop"!!! The rest as they say, was history.
It's a sad testament to management at these operations, where the power of wishful thinking appears to rule over even basic common sense!
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I think the real reason for the roll out of VA is the cost of unwinding versus the commercial outcomes in the first year.
I suspect the line in the sand is not far away...
However, given the number of pilots and cabin crew that have accepted positions (in addition to sales, ops etc), I think we should all be saying "God's speed" to VA and hope for success. This would be the best outcome for the industry...
I suspect the line in the sand is not far away...
However, given the number of pilots and cabin crew that have accepted positions (in addition to sales, ops etc), I think we should all be saying "God's speed" to VA and hope for success. This would be the best outcome for the industry...
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Rescue,......notwithstanding your kind sentiments, DJ/VA is a publicly listed consortium and the Board of Directors are responsible to ALL THE SHAREHOLDERS under the rules of the ASX, to act 'prudently' (which is a financial term meaning to act 'discreetly or cautiously in managing ones activities').
Under the law, Company Directors are not afforded the luxury of making decisions which rely on 'hoping for success'. If you search DJ's records (on the ASX) you will see that BG has already lost a substantial personal fortune in the DJ share price slide, which at this very moment is nudging trading below 30 cents.
With so much uncertainty in the air transport market (such as Air France/KLM - Europe's biggest airline yesterday confirming an expected loss for the year of 150 Million Euros and Singapore Airlines also yesterday confirming a reduction in activity (and exposure to loss) due to the current climate), I think both the mum and dad DJ/VA investors and the DJ/VA staff should be seeing a lot more 'prudential restraint' than the 'risky' decisions currently being made by the DJ Board.
Under the law, Company Directors are not afforded the luxury of making decisions which rely on 'hoping for success'. If you search DJ's records (on the ASX) you will see that BG has already lost a substantial personal fortune in the DJ share price slide, which at this very moment is nudging trading below 30 cents.
With so much uncertainty in the air transport market (such as Air France/KLM - Europe's biggest airline yesterday confirming an expected loss for the year of 150 Million Euros and Singapore Airlines also yesterday confirming a reduction in activity (and exposure to loss) due to the current climate), I think both the mum and dad DJ/VA investors and the DJ/VA staff should be seeing a lot more 'prudential restraint' than the 'risky' decisions currently being made by the DJ Board.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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So for all of you entrepeneurs out there, when is the best time to set up a new airline? As long as VB has the pockets for it and if they can get a customer base / superior reputation over the next year they will probaly do pretty well out of it. If it is successful then it will add considerable shareholder value which is what the Board would be looking at. If some of you had been running Boeing in the 50s there would have been no 707 (too risky). The rest of you would have been flying Tuploev's (or more likely watching someone else fly them). Very interesting to see the outcome but if the unemployment numbers are right there won't be much recruitment happening over the next year or so (except maybe at V Australia).
I hope you're right coaldemon.
Old Chinese saying... "Tortoise only go forward when sticks neck out".
There's another of course, "Good money after bad". Although I don't think it originated in China.
Ultimately time will tell, and your analogy of Boeing is perhaps a good one. Although I haven't heard of many Bill Allen's around the conference table at Breakfast Creek!
Old Chinese saying... "Tortoise only go forward when sticks neck out".
There's another of course, "Good money after bad". Although I don't think it originated in China.
Ultimately time will tell, and your analogy of Boeing is perhaps a good one. Although I haven't heard of many Bill Allen's around the conference table at Breakfast Creek!
It seems its become very trendy these days to knock down someone trying to have a go. Australia Day has only recently just passed, lets be a little positive people..
And actually give kudos to those out there giving it a crack so there might actually be future opportunities outside what we've got now.
Incredibly thankfull i don't have to sit next to some of you whingebags for endless hours and hear all your negativity and ill-will.
-Dux
And actually give kudos to those out there giving it a crack so there might actually be future opportunities outside what we've got now.
Incredibly thankfull i don't have to sit next to some of you whingebags for endless hours and hear all your negativity and ill-will.
-Dux
Join Date: May 2005
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VA routes
A kinda left field question, what are ppl's thoughts on CNS being used for more Pacific flights, rather than everything heading south through BNE and SYD?
SYD is a cluster **** and BNE is becoming the same, don't pax just want to get into and out of airports as quickly as possible, and spend minimal time tranisitting to and fro?
CNS has plenty to offer tourists and good connections to other parts of AUS.
Thoughts?
SYD is a cluster **** and BNE is becoming the same, don't pax just want to get into and out of airports as quickly as possible, and spend minimal time tranisitting to and fro?
CNS has plenty to offer tourists and good connections to other parts of AUS.
Thoughts?
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Duxnutz and B043 -
Admirable sentiments perhaps, but totally out of touch with financial reality.
This has the potential to be a show stopper for the whole Virgin Blue group. As was said earlier,
.
Admirable sentiments perhaps, but totally out of touch with financial reality.
This has the potential to be a show stopper for the whole Virgin Blue group. As was said earlier,
VB does not have to launch VAus to survive
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Led Zep
VA will not be showstopper for VB. It is a self contained company that will be cut loose if it genuinely threatens the parent company!!
If you read Bransons latest book, that is how all is companies are now setup, so that the collapse of one cannot bring down the entire group.
Admittedly, perhaps he is prepared to sacrifice VB as he has already made his money, but the reality is he guards his brand jealously and a failure of any Virgin company will impact the Brand worldwide, and they are unlikely to let it happen if it is in any way avoidable, and i doubt that funding will be an issue, as long as the long term viability is there.
VA will not be showstopper for VB. It is a self contained company that will be cut loose if it genuinely threatens the parent company!!
If you read Bransons latest book, that is how all is companies are now setup, so that the collapse of one cannot bring down the entire group.
Admittedly, perhaps he is prepared to sacrifice VB as he has already made his money, but the reality is he guards his brand jealously and a failure of any Virgin company will impact the Brand worldwide, and they are unlikely to let it happen if it is in any way avoidable, and i doubt that funding will be an issue, as long as the long term viability is there.
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I haven't read Branson's latest, but I was under the impression that in this case, because of the cross (VB and VA) funding guarantees required, there was effectively a link between the financial position (and therefore solvency) of both companies.
If I'm wrong I obviously stand corrected.
If I'm wrong I obviously stand corrected.