Garuda Again
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Did a trip on the Garuda recently and very surprised about the standard of service and attention to the thinking walk on freight.
Reminded me of those days when Ansett were flying!!
Remember that, nice hello and on time departure, friendly and competent flight attendants, and a very nice smile as you left the aircraft on arrival.
Far better than that well known Australian LCC with bitter and geriatric in flight crew whose CEO name begins with a D for son of Dick!
Reminded me of those days when Ansett were flying!!
Remember that, nice hello and on time departure, friendly and competent flight attendants, and a very nice smile as you left the aircraft on arrival.
Far better than that well known Australian LCC with bitter and geriatric in flight crew whose CEO name begins with a D for son of Dick!
And you shouldn't generalise about service. You obviously haven't been on one of my flights
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I remember in the late 80's a Garuda 747 mistook Essendon for Melbourne. The pilot actually started descending for EN's runway 26 whilst tracking for Melbourne's runway 34.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I remember in the late 80's a Garuda 747 mistook Essendon for Melbourne. The pilot actually started descending for EN's runway 26 whilst tracking for Melbourne's runway 34.
Wasn't it a Garuda flight that lined up on final for Horrie Miller Drive a few years ago? 
Join Date: Aug 2003
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The ATIS clearly says
“Runway 21 Reduced Length and Runway 24”
“Runway 21 ILS Not Available”
I have also noticed that Perth ATC never give Garuda runway 24/06. Probably a smart move. (could also be because of the flow or the STAR’s they do from the direction they in come from but still no harm on giving them 03/21 both of which have ILS)
They have temporary PAPI there now too during the works. Don’t know if was operating last week though??
“Runway 21 Reduced Length and Runway 24”
“Runway 21 ILS Not Available”
I have also noticed that Perth ATC never give Garuda runway 24/06. Probably a smart move. (could also be because of the flow or the STAR’s they do from the direction they in come from but still no harm on giving them 03/21 both of which have ILS)
They have temporary PAPI there now too during the works. Don’t know if was operating last week though??
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My recollection is that Garuda was meant to line up from the south for ML's 34 (having done that approach/STAR that takes you to the west of the airport, then around on an easterly heading before turning north to intercept a long final at ML) and mistook 35 at EN for their runway.
If they'd locked onto the EN 26 ILS it would have looked pretty spectacular to see them trying to get down for EN's 35.
If they'd locked onto the EN 26 ILS it would have looked pretty spectacular to see them trying to get down for EN's 35.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Back in those days, Garuda did SYD-MEL-DPS so the flight was coming from Sydney and tracking was via PLENTY LOC, EN 26 LLZ positioning for right base 34 at Melbourne. From what I recall, they captured the glideslope on the EN 26 ILS and had started descent before being advised by ATC of their error.
A week or so later, a RAAF B707 did a practice ILS & overshoot to EN RWY 26, which generated a similar public 'scare', but was in fact not an operational issue at all.
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man on the ground is correct.
I have also seen "local" QF and AN crews on a VSA mistakenly position for either 35 or 26 (positioned for a left circuit for 27 - relatively uncommon) in reduced viz conditions, although they never got quite as far as Garuda did.
I have also seen "local" QF and AN crews on a VSA mistakenly position for either 35 or 26 (positioned for a left circuit for 27 - relatively uncommon) in reduced viz conditions, although they never got quite as far as Garuda did.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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i thought this would be perfect for the garuda thread
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQpia...eature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3JQpia...eature=related
Join Date: Jan 2005
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For those of you who don't believe the article, I saw it with my own eyes. We were holding at Intersection Delta and saw the whole thing, Tower basically screamed at them to go-around. They barely touched down on the serviceable portion of the runway.
JarJar
JarJar
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All you Garuda sympathisers are part of the reason airlines like that are still flying. Bleeding hearts " anyone can make a mistake ", " they have good service ", " they serve good quality gin on board " ( probably why they burn so well 
) , you and the morons always trying to save a dollar. ( BTW, not everybody who travels on cheap fares is a moron, just the ones that would rather save $100 than travel on a safe airline )
I wonder if the families and friends of the 1000 or so people they killed share your apathy/sympathy
8 hull losses and many more near misses are simply unacceptable
) , you and the morons always trying to save a dollar. ( BTW, not everybody who travels on cheap fares is a moron, just the ones that would rather save $100 than travel on a safe airline )I wonder if the families and friends of the 1000 or so people they killed share your apathy/sympathy
8 hull losses and many more near misses are simply unacceptable
Join Date: Apr 2000
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hkf - that is a fair call - BUT!
I believe OJH was a technical hull loss, but was rebuilt above replacement cost to "save face" and there was no Bahasa Indonesia happening on the flight deck when they created a new obstacle on the golf course.
No one to date has been able to tell me if you get a drop for a 747 on the fairway or have to play through.
Garuda is far from perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than they were about 17years ago. In the days of the A300-600s they were leasing from South America, complete with the onboard chimp engineer they were scary.
Take a look at Delta, Eastern, Pan Am, United, American, Lufthansa, KLM et al. Then US Air, PSA, Valujet and Air France.
The list goes on.
OJH was a QF hull loss, saved only by the incredibly wet tarmac and surrounds that negated any ignition sources, but that would have been a saviour for many people in incidents with GA if the same conditions prevailed. On a dry strip, she may well have gone bang in a much bigger way.
The Gods of Qantas decided they would rebuild the aeroplane to avoid the hull loss. I believe the unstripped remnants are still on a backlot at mascot with markings painted out. Wise commercial move, but one should take it in context.
Any given airline is in one minutes' time - 60 seconds close to a disaster.
All we can do is put in 100% effort to make sure the event is pushed further away.
I do not excuse their errors.
Just so long as they learn from them as we all should.
best all
EWL
I believe OJH was a technical hull loss, but was rebuilt above replacement cost to "save face" and there was no Bahasa Indonesia happening on the flight deck when they created a new obstacle on the golf course.
No one to date has been able to tell me if you get a drop for a 747 on the fairway or have to play through.
Garuda is far from perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than they were about 17years ago. In the days of the A300-600s they were leasing from South America, complete with the onboard chimp engineer they were scary.
Take a look at Delta, Eastern, Pan Am, United, American, Lufthansa, KLM et al. Then US Air, PSA, Valujet and Air France.
The list goes on.
OJH was a QF hull loss, saved only by the incredibly wet tarmac and surrounds that negated any ignition sources, but that would have been a saviour for many people in incidents with GA if the same conditions prevailed. On a dry strip, she may well have gone bang in a much bigger way.
The Gods of Qantas decided they would rebuild the aeroplane to avoid the hull loss. I believe the unstripped remnants are still on a backlot at mascot with markings painted out. Wise commercial move, but one should take it in context.
Any given airline is in one minutes' time - 60 seconds close to a disaster.
All we can do is put in 100% effort to make sure the event is pushed further away.
I do not excuse their errors.
Just so long as they learn from them as we all should.
best all
EWL
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EWL
Your posts are normally quite well balanced however this last one is a bit far fetched.
I would speculate that the QF golfing exercise would not have happened at all had it been a dry day
. It was the monsoonal weather combined with some bad decissions that found them in the bunker and not the clubhouse!
Cheers
J
Your posts are normally quite well balanced however this last one is a bit far fetched.
I would speculate that the QF golfing exercise would not have happened at all had it been a dry day
. It was the monsoonal weather combined with some bad decissions that found them in the bunker and not the clubhouse!Cheers
J
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I believe it is 11 Hull loses not 8 (that's 11 counting jets only, there are a number of other non jet crashes, including F27 and earlier DC3 and convair crashes which I'm not counting).
Given the airlines size this number is absolutely extraordinary, it would be the equivalent of QF having about 40 Jet hull loses, or AA or UA having over 100 could you imagine that?
There is a problem, always has been, and at the present rate there probably always will be.....
Given the airlines size this number is absolutely extraordinary, it would be the equivalent of QF having about 40 Jet hull loses, or AA or UA having over 100 could you imagine that?
There is a problem, always has been, and at the present rate there probably always will be.....
Last edited by speeeedy; 20th May 2008 at 12:55.
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EWL
Would it be unfair to suggest that a generous commission structure could lean travel agents towards favouring a carrier that they would otherwise advise clients to avoid?
Ask one of the 45 [surviving] former Garuda expat FOs about Garuda behind the scenes. I would be willing to connect you to someone who will speak off the record. Most are 737 or 777 captains in real airlines these days.
Garuda had, has and will continue to have an appalling safety record so long as they have no concept of a Safety Culture. The last one can be blamed on abysmal handling skills and a pilot crucified, but if the next one involves a gear leg breaking due to poor maintenance oversight they will sack or prosecute an engineer, despite the root cause being the same.
Korean Air and China Airlines, after a spate of prangs, resolved to clean up. Independent checking, purging of the ranks where necessary and considerable dineros spent. Result, too early to say but KE have a far better record and CI, well they got everyone off their 738 that burned down.
Would it be unfair to suggest that a generous commission structure could lean travel agents towards favouring a carrier that they would otherwise advise clients to avoid?
Ask one of the 45 [surviving] former Garuda expat FOs about Garuda behind the scenes. I would be willing to connect you to someone who will speak off the record. Most are 737 or 777 captains in real airlines these days.
Garuda had, has and will continue to have an appalling safety record so long as they have no concept of a Safety Culture. The last one can be blamed on abysmal handling skills and a pilot crucified, but if the next one involves a gear leg breaking due to poor maintenance oversight they will sack or prosecute an engineer, despite the root cause being the same.
Korean Air and China Airlines, after a spate of prangs, resolved to clean up. Independent checking, purging of the ranks where necessary and considerable dineros spent. Result, too early to say but KE have a far better record and CI, well they got everyone off their 738 that burned down.
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Yusef
Understandable call, but considering 5% plus 2% flown revenue overide - 3.5% on domestic with QF compared with a flat 7% International and 5% on domestic with no overide commission may squash your arguement. No benefit in me selling GA, and our status with QF is well worth protecting.
QF is my airline of choice - ALWAYS - when I fly myself, but I have flown GA numerous times without problem. Maybe I am just lucky.
Jaba
Indeed - but thankfully they were lucky.
Speedy - I may even have one more hull for you - a DC9 parked in the palms at DPS - also shaped like a banana.
Points are well taken, but if I could use QF to go everywhere, then I would.
Unfortunately if I have a psgr who needs to go into Padang, then GA is the safest option in my opinion, likewise into Kupang I need to use Merpati Nusantara which really DOES scare me.
There are airlines I will not fly under any circumstances. Garuda currently isn't one of them.
Maybe I am silly, but that is me.
Best regards
EWL
Understandable call, but considering 5% plus 2% flown revenue overide - 3.5% on domestic with QF compared with a flat 7% International and 5% on domestic with no overide commission may squash your arguement. No benefit in me selling GA, and our status with QF is well worth protecting.
QF is my airline of choice - ALWAYS - when I fly myself, but I have flown GA numerous times without problem. Maybe I am just lucky.
Jaba
Indeed - but thankfully they were lucky.
Speedy - I may even have one more hull for you - a DC9 parked in the palms at DPS - also shaped like a banana.
Points are well taken, but if I could use QF to go everywhere, then I would.
Unfortunately if I have a psgr who needs to go into Padang, then GA is the safest option in my opinion, likewise into Kupang I need to use Merpati Nusantara which really DOES scare me.
There are airlines I will not fly under any circumstances. Garuda currently isn't one of them.
Maybe I am silly, but that is me.
Best regards
EWL
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EWL is correct. GA may not be the world's safest carrier BUT, in Indonesia, they are lightyears ahead of the rest.
From recent personal flightdeck observations (and, yes, I was type rated and current at the time), GA "heavy international ops" appear to be a few rungs higher than GA domestic ops. Maybe, that's due to an increased sense of self preservation acquired with age which most of us acknowledge as "experience" of the drivers. Whatever the reason, crews of the aircraft at the top end of the fleet demonstrated sound SOPs.
Somehow, they have to achieve the same attitudes and standards at the lower end to avoid any more Yog tragedies.
From recent personal flightdeck observations (and, yes, I was type rated and current at the time), GA "heavy international ops" appear to be a few rungs higher than GA domestic ops. Maybe, that's due to an increased sense of self preservation acquired with age which most of us acknowledge as "experience" of the drivers. Whatever the reason, crews of the aircraft at the top end of the fleet demonstrated sound SOPs.
Somehow, they have to achieve the same attitudes and standards at the lower end to avoid any more Yog tragedies.
I need to use Merpati Nusantara which really DOES scare me.
!