What Did You Say Tiger?

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Herald Sun
Jane Metlikovec

April 11, 2008 12:00am
A GROUP of deaf Melburnians has launched a discrimination case against Tiger Airways for not allowing them to travel without a qualified carer.

Public servant Adrian Doyle, 38, said he was left humiliated in Tasmania last month when he, his wife Julie, and two friends, Robyn and Steve May, who are all in their 30s, were told they could board the plane only if they organised -- and bought a seat -- for a sign language translator.

A spokesman for Tiger Airways, Matt Hobbs, told the Herald Sun the policy was in place to protect the safety of all passengers in case of emergency.

Mr Hobbs said Tiger was not looking at revising its policy to let fully capable deaf adults travel without an aide.

"The carer issue is a standard practice, and it is there to protect the safety of all passengers, and without it, the safety of passengers could be jeopardised," he said.

But Mr Hobbs rang back five minutes later saying the Tiger policy was actually to allow deaf people to travel without a carer.

Tiger would now address Mr Doyle and his travel companions.

"We are happy to apologise to the people involved for the inconvenience and embarrassment they might have experienced," Mr Hobbs said.

Mr Doyle, of Nunawading, has filed the complaint against Tiger with the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission under the Disability Discrimination Act.

The group was eventually permitted to take their seats on the March 4 flight from Launceston to Melbourne, after a stewardess told them they would not be allowed to travel alone again.

"The stewardess wrote on a piece of paper to me that we all require a carer on a plane because of our 'deafness', which sure floored me," Mr Doyle said. "My friends had steam coming out of their ears, and my wife was dumbfounded.

"I then took the paper and wrote that they had insulted us by saying that we require a carer, since we have all travelled a lot, and never encountered any problems with our disabilities."

Mr Doyle double-checked the Tiger policy over the phone when he returned home, and was again told that he would be required to have a carer next time.

"I am shocked and stunned that Tiger allow themselves to discriminate against deaf people," he said.

Anti-discrimination consultant Julie Phillips said the original Tiger policy appeared to be out of the dark ages.

"Deaf people fly every day -- they do not need carers. It's ridiculous," Ms Phillips said.

Virgin Blue and Jetstar both allow deaf passengers to travel without carers.

[ampan]

"We had steam coming out of our ears, and my wife was dumbfounded."

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Ha, ha, ha! Good pick up. I missed that one!

[hoss58]

"Mr Doyle double-checked the Tiger policy over the phone when he returned home, and was again told that he would be required to have a carer next time."

Not trying to be a smart..se, but how would Mr Doyle be able to hear this information "over the phone" with a hearing impediment.

Fly safe and play hard

Regards to all

Hoss 58

[Howard Hughes]

The call to the courts may fall on deaf ears...

[Fliegenmong]

Thought the same thing hoss

[windytown]

.

Not trying to be a smart..se, but how would Mr Doyle be able to hear this information "over the phone" with a hearing impediment

Actually that happens a lot. ASsuming he is close to 100% deaf, the most likely explanations is that he had a hearing able person do the talking/listening for him while he stood next to them. Alternatively he could have used a deaf relay service which is a kind of call centre that acts as an intermediary for the hearing impaired and uses a teletex style machine to interact with the hearing impaired but the call centre person speaks to the other party.

Given a lot of elderly people are both hearing impaired and inclined to go on holidays by plane to avoid driving, Tiger better give this policy some serious though. All planes have highly visual instruction of what to do in case of an emergency.

Also Tiger better be careful about specifying that deaf people need carers as it could backfire and they find themselves (under law as in Canada for some disabilities or community/political pressure) having to give free or discounted travel to carers. ie go on family holidays with a hearing impaired family member and you get one ticket free or half price, when you once would have previously paid for the ticket.

[hoss58]

Thanks Windy

I suspected something like that might have been the case, but i equally suspected the journo may not have researched the story properly.

You make some good points about that particular section of the travelling public.

Fly safe and play hard

Regards to all


Hoss 58

[ampan]

To be fair to Tiger, the deaf are not quite the same as the blind. I have noted that many of them seem to inhabit some strange world where it is good to be deaf, and they can sometimes react rather explosively when dealing with "outsiders".

[NoseGear]

oh jeez ampan

ampan, that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've read in a looong time Are you really saying that Deaf = volatile and explosive?????

As for Tigers policy, which I find a complete farce, whats the policy on non english speaking passengers then? Whats the difference if you yell at someone to evacuate if they're deaf (not dumb ampan) or non english speaking? I'm quite certain that anyone, deaf or otherwise will certainly get the picture when everyone else is leaping down the slides. As also mentioned, the safety cards are pretty easy to figure out.

ampan, you really owe an apology to the deaf, or according to your childish peg-holing they'll be around in droves to burn down your "outsiders" house

[ampan]

I'm obviously no expert, NoseGear. All I'm saying is that there are sections of the deaf community who can be very difficult to deal with. (Having said that, there are sections of the non-deaf community who can be even more difficult to deal with.)

[Metro man]

Whilst I do sympathise with the deaf there are valid safety considerations when carrying someone who cannot understand the safety briefing or instructions from the crew.

Some airlines with video briefing include a sign language demo on the screen. Tiger don't have seat back tvs.

Full service airlines have a lower pax/cabin crew ratio and can assign someone to pay special attention to a particular passenger. Low cost has a high pax/cabin crew ratio and the flight attendents can't pay particular attention to someone who needs it, especially with 30 min turnarounds.

There isn't enough fat in the ticket price on a low cost to cover extras, if people want the lowest possible fare they can't be too fussy.

Anyone remember a few years back, the case of a disabled man who took a taxi from Brisbane to Adelaide becuase the airline required him to provide a carer ?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Wasn't there a thread on these fine pages a few months ago re a PRIVATE PILOT who is DEAF?

And, apparently, used to land on the opposite end of the runway he took off from, or was it the same runway he took off from - regardless of W/V and other traffic??

Maybe this guy should 'volunteer' to crew the flight......

I can 'see' it now "Vector Victor", Clearance Clarence" etc etc ALL on 'Sight Cards'....
Apols to "Flying High"....

Hat, Coat, exit stage left...........

[Hugh Jarse]

The ignorance of some people on this topic is unbelievable. In a previous life I worked with a number of deaf people on my crew. There are many ways they work around not being able to hear.

Most can lip read from a very early age, and can do this at quite a distance from the person speaking;

Most can speak.

Most can sign. Sign language crosses many language borders.

They all can read a safety briefing card.

That makes them more safety aware than a non English speaking person who can only read the briefing card.

Interestingly, we carry NESB persons and don't give them a special briefing.

What's the problem?

Most airlines I know of do a face to face briefing with special needs passengers (i.e. wheelchairs). Why are deaf people any different?

Low cost is no excuse. They are required to provide the same standard of safety.

Nose gear, you hit the nail on the head.

[Prado]

It really is very average behaviour from Tiger.

Travelling on a J* flight last week I observed 2 deaf passengers in the lounge - they were boarded early and when the general stampede started, I observed one flight attendant finishing what appeared to be a specific safety briefing with these passengers. Now, that's not so hard is it?

As far as I am aware, the only passengers with a mandatory requirement to have a carer with them are passengers who are unable to utilise the toilets by themselves. Fair enough too!

I agree that NESB issues, together with the amount of cabin luggage being dragged onto aircraft these days, probably present more of a safety issue on board in the event of an emergency than well briefed hearing impaired passengers!

Cheers
Prado.

[hoss58]

"There isn't enough fat in the ticket price on a low cost to cover extras, if people want the lowest possible fare they can't be too fussy."


Hi Metroman.

I don't think the issue is pax being fussy. The pax in question were more than happy to take their seat for the journey.

I believe nosegear has it right.

Lets look at a non aviation example. Two people are standing at a very busy road intersection waiting to cross the road. One person is deaf and the other is not. Is not the primary way both people are going to avoid serious injury/death by using their eyesight. Deaf folks can figure out when a situation is dangerous just the same as a non deaf person.

If i'm on an aircraft and after landing there is smoke in the cabin and the slides deploy i don't deed to be TOLD that the sh-te is about to hit the fan.

Fly safe and play hard

Regards to all

Hoss 58

[Thylacine]

More of the same

Budget airlines under fire
SMH
April 11, 2008

* Tiger Airways accused of discrimination
* Airline wants to stop disabled flying alone

The advent of low cost airlines in Australia and their over-zealous interpretation of safety regulations has led to greater discrimination against people with disabilities, experts say.

A group of deaf people from Melbourne has launched a discrimination case against Tiger Airways after the budget carrier insisted they travel with a carer last month.

But federal disability discrimination commissioner Graeme Innes says the problem isn't limited to Tiger.

"There have been endemic problems in airlines over the past few years where people with disabilities have been refused carriage because of their disability," Mr Innes told Sky News.

"The introduction of low cost airlines has been one of the reasons."

Mr Innes said they often applied unnecessarily strenuous or zealous interpretations of airline safety regulations and their staff weren't trained well enough.

"What you get sometimes are individual decisions which are outside airline policies," he said.

In 2006, Virgin Blue was forced to back down over its policy requiring wheel chair-bound passengers to be accompanied by a carer. It was currently fighting a federal court case over alleged discrimination, Mr Innes said.

Last week, Mr Innes co-chaired a forum with the parliamentary secretary for disabilities services, Bill Shorten, to address the issue of how disabled people are treated by airlines.

The forum included the main airlines, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and government representatives.

Mr Shorten said the government was concerned that discrimination was taking place "in the name of safety".

"But the reality is most people with impairment can understand (safety) instructions and fly," Mr Shorten told Sky News.

Mr Shorten said Tiger was wrong to insist deaf passengers travelled with a carer.

"People who are deaf can still see and all emergency safety briefings have pictorial representations," he said.

"Just because people are deaf doesn't mean that they're stupid."

He said Qantas had the best policy: "If you can't self-medicate and self-see then you need a carer".

But Mr Shorten said individual flight attendants were not to blame.

Better training and awareness about disability was needed, he said.

"The airline industry needs to reach out to people with disability."

Comment was being sought from Tiger Airways.

AAP

The issue with deaf passengers assumes that they are stupid. I doubt if they are anymore so than any other number of passengers on a low cost or full service airline flight.

If the discussion is extended to all passengers with disabilities one would have to place restrictions on the aged, people traveling to hospital appointments with temporary restrictions on their mobility as well as the 10-15% of the population with some form of permanent disability. It seems to me that this section of the community represents a solid customer base for the airlines.

As someone who uses a wheelchair but able to walk short distances with the aid of elbow crutches I have found both Virgin and Jet* very helpful. Although I need a hoist at LSST to board /disembark, my wheelchair is usually waiting at the gate at most ports with air bridges and I continue on my way without imposing any extra work on ground staff. Regrettably Jetstar have bins and one cannot access the wheelchair until the baggage claim area, so hence I prefer Virgin.

In all my travels I have yet to see a disabled passenger who has caused the cabin crew any additional work and all have acted with consideration and a smile. I get my personal safety briefing and I know in an emergency I have to wait till last.

Just to preempt any comments about disabled passengers who are unable use the toilet. Without going into the intricacies, most in this category carry their own method of "on-board" disposal.

The bottom line is low cost or full service, people with disabilities have equal rights to access their services and I am sure carriers have built in the costs, if any, into their fare structures. One final point "Low Cost" carriers is a name only. You can often pay as much on Virgin as QF, forgetting early "come-on" cheap tickets.

[Keg]

Interestingly, we carry NESB persons and don't give them a special briefing.

We can even have them in an exit row on the 767 or 737 that requires them to operate the exit in the event of an emergency if there is a card available with the instructions in their language! Don't even get me started on the stupidity of THAT particular issue!