Supply and Demand
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I just re-read ACMSs' post 10# above:
"The Airlines don't want to get rid of it either, otherwise Pilot's would be moving all over the place all of the time, no incentive to stay."
Doesn't this encapsulate what I have been saying?
Do I feel guity about something? Why no, LHR, why? Is there something I should feel qguilty about? What are you trying to say?
"The Airlines don't want to get rid of it either, otherwise Pilot's would be moving all over the place all of the time, no incentive to stay."
Doesn't this encapsulate what I have been saying?
Do I feel guity about something? Why no, LHR, why? Is there something I should feel qguilty about? What are you trying to say?
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Ralph is on the money!! 
The Seniority System ensures pilot's terms and conditions will always reflect the lowest common denominator! I know of no other profession which practices an outdated and inflexible seniority system.
The seniority system ensures a small incompetent minority will be promoted beyond their maximum level of incompetence, based upon the efforts and achievements of a competent majority.
The airlines must love the seniority system; it gives them the ability to pay all pilots at a level commensurate with the productivity of a minority.
The Seniority System ensures pilot's terms and conditions will always reflect the lowest common denominator! I know of no other profession which practices an outdated and inflexible seniority system.
The seniority system ensures a small incompetent minority will be promoted beyond their maximum level of incompetence, based upon the efforts and achievements of a competent majority.
The airlines must love the seniority system; it gives them the ability to pay all pilots at a level commensurate with the productivity of a minority.
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And the right winged approach of screw you guys i'm OK, i'll pay for my endorsement, work for less than everyone else seems not to be working terribly well.
You speak as though there are no means by which to weed out under performers, check flights. Whilst occasionally some slip through, generally a healthy C&T system with a good HCC is the best form of protection to what you speak of.
IMHO Air Ace, you have no idea what you are speaking of.
To go a step further, do you think you get a better deal in a unionised ( assuming a "above board union" ) workplace or under one on one negotiation ?.
You speak as though there are no means by which to weed out under performers, check flights. Whilst occasionally some slip through, generally a healthy C&T system with a good HCC is the best form of protection to what you speak of.
IMHO Air Ace, you have no idea what you are speaking of.
To go a step further, do you think you get a better deal in a unionised ( assuming a "above board union" ) workplace or under one on one negotiation ?.
The airlines must love the seniority system; it gives them the ability to pay all pilots at a level commensurate with the productivity of a minority
seniority may not be the best system but it is the best system available.It has been tried and true over many decades past and I see the age old problems re emerging where it does not exist.
Like I said before, those that didn't get into a Legacy carrier when they were younger HATE seniority. they would LOVE to come in as direct entry Capt or F/O and SCREW those that joined before them.
So tell me fellas, when you're at the staff travel counter waiting for the last 3 seats to Tim Buck Two how do you think the staff resolve the seats in a fair manner ?????????????
That's right..............date of joining, ie SENIORITY
Same goes for Rostering and Leave bidding.
I suppose you'd like to join CX as a direct entry Capt and get staff travel ahead of the rest too....
So tell me fellas, when you're at the staff travel counter waiting for the last 3 seats to Tim Buck Two how do you think the staff resolve the seats in a fair manner ?????????????
That's right..............date of joining, ie SENIORITY
Same goes for Rostering and Leave bidding.
I suppose you'd like to join CX as a direct entry Capt and get staff travel ahead of the rest too....
Ralph, I did get the spelling right, (at least for the purpose of my sarcasm). I appologise if it went over your head.
You put forward some interesting points, but your overall opposition to the seniority system, and your alternative to it, would create a class system within the airlines. You, with your superior expereince, hours, jet time, pen!s, etc...., would be elevated to the upper echelons and pay scale of whatever organisation you saw fit to bless with your presence! Just when Joe Blogs, who had spent years climbing the ladder is ready for command, along comes Ralph, Ace, or some clone of the aforementioned, to neatly slide in there on the big bucks and the perks that may go with them. That is of course untill the next better offer comes along. Jesus wept!!!
Now I do take your point about an 8 month Captain with no previous multi crew command experience. But as you have quite rightly pointed out, the responsibility for that lies squarely at the feet of REX management. I do not feel ashamed of myself for defending the rights of others to have an opportunity to qualify. I do dispare however at the willingness of those who pull the strings at REX to allow the best and brightest to depart without so much as a phone call.
Recent events at REX have made the possibility of DEC's just one step closer. AS I have said in a previous post, the mechanisms for this exist within the current system. The reality of course, is that if any of your associates wish to avail themselves to one of these positions, the terms and conditions may have to vastly improve before their mercenary aspirations are satisfied. If that were to happen, then we will all benefit!
You put forward some interesting points, but your overall opposition to the seniority system, and your alternative to it, would create a class system within the airlines. You, with your superior expereince, hours, jet time, pen!s, etc...., would be elevated to the upper echelons and pay scale of whatever organisation you saw fit to bless with your presence! Just when Joe Blogs, who had spent years climbing the ladder is ready for command, along comes Ralph, Ace, or some clone of the aforementioned, to neatly slide in there on the big bucks and the perks that may go with them. That is of course untill the next better offer comes along. Jesus wept!!!
Now I do take your point about an 8 month Captain with no previous multi crew command experience. But as you have quite rightly pointed out, the responsibility for that lies squarely at the feet of REX management. I do not feel ashamed of myself for defending the rights of others to have an opportunity to qualify. I do dispare however at the willingness of those who pull the strings at REX to allow the best and brightest to depart without so much as a phone call.
Recent events at REX have made the possibility of DEC's just one step closer. AS I have said in a previous post, the mechanisms for this exist within the current system. The reality of course, is that if any of your associates wish to avail themselves to one of these positions, the terms and conditions may have to vastly improve before their mercenary aspirations are satisfied. If that were to happen, then we will all benefit!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 15th Apr 2008 at 01:55.
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the minute i see the stuff about REX these days my eyes glaze over and i start scolling down. Its been done to death, just let them close in peace now.
As for the other topic, well people are just packing up and going where they can get the best deal. Gradually all the experience will leave our shores and this will become america.
As for the other topic, well people are just packing up and going where they can get the best deal. Gradually all the experience will leave our shores and this will become america.
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ACMS
Or in the case of the airline that ACMS and I work for
....if the Airline will not upgrade their S/Os or F/Os due to financial and training load considerations, and don't give a damn if they dishonour your employment contract, then the mechanism....
Now if the Airline cannot upgrade their S/O's or F/O's due to experience then the mechanism is in place to allow for direct entry Pilots.
....if the Airline will not upgrade their S/Os or F/Os due to financial and training load considerations, and don't give a damn if they dishonour your employment contract, then the mechanism....
