L@ser 'cluster' attack on Sydney planes
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Otter where have you been hiding?
A medium powered laser can burn a hole in metal or cause your eyeball to explode. The beam of a high powered laser has been bounced off the moon.
The little ones often used as pointers are probably incapable of permanent eye damage but who is going to risk total blindness if your eye focusses the beam on to the retina. It could do its damage in one fleeting flash.
Lasers used in surgery can slice through tissue.
A medium powered laser can burn a hole in metal or cause your eyeball to explode. The beam of a high powered laser has been bounced off the moon.
The little ones often used as pointers are probably incapable of permanent eye damage but who is going to risk total blindness if your eye focusses the beam on to the retina. It could do its damage in one fleeting flash.
Lasers used in surgery can slice through tissue.
You have to ask why they are being sold to the public in the first place. What purpose could they possibly serve?
Perhaps like guns, you should have to apply for a licence first and state the reason for the purchase.
Perhaps like guns, you should have to apply for a licence first and state the reason for the purchase.
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like the cigarette boxes with a picture of a downed aircraft? 
Yeah, I reckon many innocent people shine them at an aircraft in order to see if it will reach, others do it to be asses.
Yeah, I reckon many innocent people shine them at an aircraft in order to see if it will reach, others do it to be asses.
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Update
From www.news.com.au
Full link here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...60-421,00.html
ASIO to take on laser attack epidemic
By Stephen Lunn
April 02, 2008 01:34am
ASIO, federal police and other key government agencies will hold urgent talks today to thrash out a strategy to tackle the growing epidemic of laser attacks on passenger jets at major Australian airports.
The top-level Canberra meeting will be urged to ban the sale of the high-powered lasers and push for even tougher penalties on people caught using the lights to disrupt flights.
The meeting, which will include officials from the Australian Customs Service, ASIO, the AFP, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Air Services Australia and the federal Attorney-General and Transport Department, comes as the number of attacks increases, despite harsher penalties introduced last year.
Penalties were increased to two years' jail and fines of up to $30,000. But authorities have to date struggled to track down the culprits and are exploring new tracking technology to pinpoint the source of laser attacks.
Today's meeting has been called after six aircraft flying into Sydney airport last Friday night reported being targeted by lasers over a 15-minute period, a situation Air Services Australia spokesman Bryan Nicholson described as "the worst attack in our experience".
Transport Department figures show 325 incidents were reported last year, with at least the same level of activity continuing this year. Some laser lights are capable of reaching as far as 5km.
Federal Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus asked Australian Customs Service chief executive Michael Carmody to convene the meeting, bringing the key departments together in order to provide a report to him by Friday.
"I have asked Customs to hold a high-level meeting on the serious matter of laser lights being shone at aircraft," Mr Debus told The Australian.
"We've had the possibility of banning the importation of laser lights under review for some time, but last week's incident means the matter has now become urgent.
"This type of behaviour is stupid, dangerous and illegal, and could seriously endanger the lives of aircraft passengers.
"Just last year, fines of $30,000 and two-year jail terms were introduced for people who interfere with aircraft in this way. But if tougher penalties are needed, the Government is more than happy to consider them."
One of the problems with banning the importation of lasers is that many come in through the postal system after being ordered over the internet, and are difficult to detect in X-ray machines.
Mr Nicholson said last Friday's incident at Sydney airport was particularly dangerous because it appeared to be co-ordinated.
The problem has left pilots concerned for both their own and their passengers' safety.
Because of the difficulty in locating the source of the attacks, police have struggled to make arrests. In January, police in Sydney arrested a man with a 125milliwatt laser in his possession after two planes in the Merrylands area were targeted.
It is understood the AFP are developing new mapping techniques to pinpoint the sources of recent laser attacks.
By Stephen Lunn
April 02, 2008 01:34am
ASIO, federal police and other key government agencies will hold urgent talks today to thrash out a strategy to tackle the growing epidemic of laser attacks on passenger jets at major Australian airports.
The top-level Canberra meeting will be urged to ban the sale of the high-powered lasers and push for even tougher penalties on people caught using the lights to disrupt flights.
The meeting, which will include officials from the Australian Customs Service, ASIO, the AFP, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Air Services Australia and the federal Attorney-General and Transport Department, comes as the number of attacks increases, despite harsher penalties introduced last year.
Penalties were increased to two years' jail and fines of up to $30,000. But authorities have to date struggled to track down the culprits and are exploring new tracking technology to pinpoint the source of laser attacks.
Today's meeting has been called after six aircraft flying into Sydney airport last Friday night reported being targeted by lasers over a 15-minute period, a situation Air Services Australia spokesman Bryan Nicholson described as "the worst attack in our experience".
Transport Department figures show 325 incidents were reported last year, with at least the same level of activity continuing this year. Some laser lights are capable of reaching as far as 5km.
Federal Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus asked Australian Customs Service chief executive Michael Carmody to convene the meeting, bringing the key departments together in order to provide a report to him by Friday.
"I have asked Customs to hold a high-level meeting on the serious matter of laser lights being shone at aircraft," Mr Debus told The Australian.
"We've had the possibility of banning the importation of laser lights under review for some time, but last week's incident means the matter has now become urgent.
"This type of behaviour is stupid, dangerous and illegal, and could seriously endanger the lives of aircraft passengers.
"Just last year, fines of $30,000 and two-year jail terms were introduced for people who interfere with aircraft in this way. But if tougher penalties are needed, the Government is more than happy to consider them."
One of the problems with banning the importation of lasers is that many come in through the postal system after being ordered over the internet, and are difficult to detect in X-ray machines.
Mr Nicholson said last Friday's incident at Sydney airport was particularly dangerous because it appeared to be co-ordinated.
The problem has left pilots concerned for both their own and their passengers' safety.
Because of the difficulty in locating the source of the attacks, police have struggled to make arrests. In January, police in Sydney arrested a man with a 125milliwatt laser in his possession after two planes in the Merrylands area were targeted.
It is understood the AFP are developing new mapping techniques to pinpoint the sources of recent laser attacks.
Another attack last night
April 2, 2008 - 1:23PM
A laser pointer has disrupted the flight path of another Sydney-bound plane overnight, police say.
At about 9.30pm (AEDT) on Tuesday police received reports of an infrared laser light being shone from the Bossley Park area at a plane believed to have been travelling from Cairns to Sydney's Kingsford Smith Airport.
The plane landed without incident and no one was injured.
Last Friday, six passenger planes were targeted, forcing the aircraft to alter their flight paths and delay their landings into Sydney.
The planes had to changed their flight paths into Sydney after pilots were targeted in a co-ordinated attack by four green lasers.
At the time authorities said the attack, which continued for 15 minutes, appeared to have originated in the Bexley area of south-western Sydney.
The federal government on Friday will receive recommendations on how to curb laser attacks on aeroplanes, Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus says.
A meeting of the Australian Customs Service, Australian Federal Police, ASIO and other government agencies is currently compiling suggestions for tougher restrictions on laser pointers.
A laser pointer has disrupted the flight path of another Sydney-bound plane overnight, police say.
At about 9.30pm (AEDT) on Tuesday police received reports of an infrared laser light being shone from the Bossley Park area at a plane believed to have been travelling from Cairns to Sydney's Kingsford Smith Airport.
The plane landed without incident and no one was injured.
Last Friday, six passenger planes were targeted, forcing the aircraft to alter their flight paths and delay their landings into Sydney.
The planes had to changed their flight paths into Sydney after pilots were targeted in a co-ordinated attack by four green lasers.
At the time authorities said the attack, which continued for 15 minutes, appeared to have originated in the Bexley area of south-western Sydney.
The federal government on Friday will receive recommendations on how to curb laser attacks on aeroplanes, Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus says.
A meeting of the Australian Customs Service, Australian Federal Police, ASIO and other government agencies is currently compiling suggestions for tougher restrictions on laser pointers.
http://news.theage.com.au/sydney-pla...0402-231m.html
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Being totally ignorant on lasers, are we talking about the pen size ones often used in seminars etc as a pointing device or items which are more powerful?
Pointing the l@zer at airline safety
From this afternoon's crikey.com.au
Pointing the laser at airline safety
Ben Sandilands writes:
Today’s laser abuse summit in Canberra convened by Customs and attended by the AFP, ASIO, CASA, Airservices and the Attorney-General’s office faces much tougher issues than fools pointing bright beams of light at aircraft.
When former transport minister Mark Vaile grandstanded an amendment to the Civil Aviation and Aviation Transport Security Acts in Federal Parliament last year to supposedly toughen the laws against laser attacks, it resulted in penalties less severe than those for dropping rocks off overpasses onto cars and trucks.
The chances of any magistrate imposing Vaile’s breathlessly hyped maximum two-year jail penalty on an idiot who lasers a jet are about nil.
Yet it created federal laws that would override severe state laws like those of South Australia which provide for 14 years jail for affecting the safe operation of a flight, or life if the offence is proven to have been committed "with reckless indifference" to the safety of those onboard.
The lasers on open sale in stores and mailed into the country to online buyers are high tech flamethrowers. The most powerful of these freely available devices claim to be able to ignite cardboard at a range of 70 metres.
While CASA says there have been around 300 laser attacks on aircraft in Australia in the past year, there have also been numerous instances of lasers flicking across race horses, football players, and into the eyes of train, truck and car drivers.
These are often laser pointers like those used to bore people to death at Powerpoint presentations, or waved in the air at rave parties.
At short range, lasers can do even more harm to a truck driver than a pilot, because the fool pointing it could get a line of sight into the driver’s retinas at ranges where permanent blinding becomes possible.
In aircraft, the serious danger arises from dazzling reflections within the cockpit, temporarily blinding or distracting pilots at crucial moments when they need to monitor and adjust their speed, altitude, rate of descent, glide slope, drift and heading as they approach the runway.
If the laser idiot problem seems bad now, consider this: the known research and development programs into directed energy weapons worldwide tells us much worse is to come.
These programs also involve locking tightly focused microwave beams on battle ships, incoming missiles and infantry. Why bother trying to shoot an enemy combatant if you can set him and everything around him on fire? These programs seek the scaling down of super ray technology to the same portability as consumer lasers, and may replace the untidy consequences of tactical nuclear weapons in the arsenals of military powers and terrorists in the decades to come.
So whatever steps Australia takes to curb commercially available lasers, and punish laser waving idiots, needs to also encompass the directed energy devices that will follow lasers as sure as sunrise follows night.
Ben Sandilands writes:
Today’s laser abuse summit in Canberra convened by Customs and attended by the AFP, ASIO, CASA, Airservices and the Attorney-General’s office faces much tougher issues than fools pointing bright beams of light at aircraft.
When former transport minister Mark Vaile grandstanded an amendment to the Civil Aviation and Aviation Transport Security Acts in Federal Parliament last year to supposedly toughen the laws against laser attacks, it resulted in penalties less severe than those for dropping rocks off overpasses onto cars and trucks.
The chances of any magistrate imposing Vaile’s breathlessly hyped maximum two-year jail penalty on an idiot who lasers a jet are about nil.
Yet it created federal laws that would override severe state laws like those of South Australia which provide for 14 years jail for affecting the safe operation of a flight, or life if the offence is proven to have been committed "with reckless indifference" to the safety of those onboard.
The lasers on open sale in stores and mailed into the country to online buyers are high tech flamethrowers. The most powerful of these freely available devices claim to be able to ignite cardboard at a range of 70 metres.
While CASA says there have been around 300 laser attacks on aircraft in Australia in the past year, there have also been numerous instances of lasers flicking across race horses, football players, and into the eyes of train, truck and car drivers.
These are often laser pointers like those used to bore people to death at Powerpoint presentations, or waved in the air at rave parties.
At short range, lasers can do even more harm to a truck driver than a pilot, because the fool pointing it could get a line of sight into the driver’s retinas at ranges where permanent blinding becomes possible.
In aircraft, the serious danger arises from dazzling reflections within the cockpit, temporarily blinding or distracting pilots at crucial moments when they need to monitor and adjust their speed, altitude, rate of descent, glide slope, drift and heading as they approach the runway.
If the laser idiot problem seems bad now, consider this: the known research and development programs into directed energy weapons worldwide tells us much worse is to come.
These programs also involve locking tightly focused microwave beams on battle ships, incoming missiles and infantry. Why bother trying to shoot an enemy combatant if you can set him and everything around him on fire? These programs seek the scaling down of super ray technology to the same portability as consumer lasers, and may replace the untidy consequences of tactical nuclear weapons in the arsenals of military powers and terrorists in the decades to come.
So whatever steps Australia takes to curb commercially available lasers, and punish laser waving idiots, needs to also encompass the directed energy devices that will follow lasers as sure as sunrise follows night.
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Having been one of those targeted, I reckon that trying to hit a cockpit doing 120kts, 2000ft above you with a hand held laser is a lot of hit and miss. I was able to pick out exactly where they where between the to and fro of the beam. Biggest problem is them being caught red handed. The defence case used in reverse would be - how could he, whilst blinded by the laser, really be able to accurately name the building and the backyard that it came from.
Just remember that if I meet you one day you will remember the full force of my law.
Just remember that if I meet you one day you will remember the full force of my law.
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OZBUSDRIVER may be close to the mark when it comes to the future, sadly.
If we assume:
1. l@zers will be impossible to eliminate, especially from those intent on causing malicious disruption to aviation - criminal and terrorist elements. Publicity of the crime can exacerbate this problem.
2. There will always be ignorant morons getting their hands on l@zers after a few drinks, tagging clouds and jets, without regard to the consequences - ie, highway overpass rock-chuckers. Publicity of the crime's penalty can help this problem, but only to a limited degree - parents can lock away industrial l@zers, etc.
Then the only responsible course of action is defensive. In which case what practical options are available, PPRUNERS?
- Mandated AUTOLAND? Cost? Cat 3C ILS or equivalent GLS/GBAS fast-tracking & subsidy?
- Eyesight protection?
- Additional cockpit window lamination?
Surprisingly there's quite an extensive wikipedia entry on l@zers and aviation safety covering this subject.
If we assume:
1. l@zers will be impossible to eliminate, especially from those intent on causing malicious disruption to aviation - criminal and terrorist elements. Publicity of the crime can exacerbate this problem.
2. There will always be ignorant morons getting their hands on l@zers after a few drinks, tagging clouds and jets, without regard to the consequences - ie, highway overpass rock-chuckers. Publicity of the crime's penalty can help this problem, but only to a limited degree - parents can lock away industrial l@zers, etc.
Then the only responsible course of action is defensive. In which case what practical options are available, PPRUNERS?
- Mandated AUTOLAND? Cost? Cat 3C ILS or equivalent GLS/GBAS fast-tracking & subsidy?
- Eyesight protection?
- Additional cockpit window lamination?
Surprisingly there's quite an extensive wikipedia entry on l@zers and aviation safety covering this subject.
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We may find that this problem with laser attacks will grow exponentially.
Military boffins will have already developed counter measures having a capability of accurately locating the source of the laser beam and then taking it out.
Some of these systems fitted to a few aircraft may be necessary to preserve our way of life from terrorist attacks.
Military boffins will have already developed counter measures having a capability of accurately locating the source of the laser beam and then taking it out.
Some of these systems fitted to a few aircraft may be necessary to preserve our way of life from terrorist attacks.
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I was hit in the eyes with a green laser a few months ago on final approach 16R Sydney.It was very powerful. Like those used at outdoor concerts.
I don't know if a pen type laser would be powerful enough to cause too much stress but needless to say, I have a good punishment to fit the crime.
I don't know if a pen type laser would be powerful enough to cause too much stress but needless to say, I have a good punishment to fit the crime.
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Everyone is carefully avoiding saying what ethnic group the 'l@zer bandits' are most likely to belong to, but when you consider what part of Sydney they're operating from, it's a pretty fair bet they'll come from a (shall we say) predictable group.
One of the very senior captains at my company predicted that concerted, synchronised attacks like this might be launched in half a dozen countries on one particular day, with an aim of causing chaos to the whole air transport system. (I saw a copy of his submission to the company three or four yeas ago.) He suggested that the company should be proactive and prepare for such a threat and consider spending a small amount of money then by providing goggles in each aircraft so that ops could contine immediately after any such attack with some degree of safety for the pilots.
The company thought 600 dollars per aircraft for goggles was too expensive and said (correctly) that the goggles would be only marginally useful because they would only offer protection for a particular frequency.
I would have thought that goggles that protected against commercially available l@zers would have been money well spent, as the easiest way for the crazies to get their hands on such weapons is over the counter.
Just like box cutters....
One of the very senior captains at my company predicted that concerted, synchronised attacks like this might be launched in half a dozen countries on one particular day, with an aim of causing chaos to the whole air transport system. (I saw a copy of his submission to the company three or four yeas ago.) He suggested that the company should be proactive and prepare for such a threat and consider spending a small amount of money then by providing goggles in each aircraft so that ops could contine immediately after any such attack with some degree of safety for the pilots.
The company thought 600 dollars per aircraft for goggles was too expensive and said (correctly) that the goggles would be only marginally useful because they would only offer protection for a particular frequency.
I would have thought that goggles that protected against commercially available l@zers would have been money well spent, as the easiest way for the crazies to get their hands on such weapons is over the counter.
Just like box cutters....
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who lasers?
Spoke to a copper, actually detective mate about this and he claims the attacks seem to cluster around expensive postcodes where people don't like jets flying overhead but forget about this on the regular flights for business.
Says they are from the same mind set that poisons tree in parks that get in the way of their views. Selfish, stupid morons with money in inverse quantities to their concerns about being responsible citizens, and so forth. Quite a diatribe, but I have a feeling he might be mainly right, since I had some involvement with fund raising for medical choppers which have also been lasered by wealthy f*wits who object to them flying over their quiet streets.
The bitterness directed at hospital medivac flights is totally over the top, and I think lasering a chopper could actually do some really serious harm.
Says they are from the same mind set that poisons tree in parks that get in the way of their views. Selfish, stupid morons with money in inverse quantities to their concerns about being responsible citizens, and so forth. Quite a diatribe, but I have a feeling he might be mainly right, since I had some involvement with fund raising for medical choppers which have also been lasered by wealthy f*wits who object to them flying over their quiet streets.
The bitterness directed at hospital medivac flights is totally over the top, and I think lasering a chopper could actually do some really serious harm.
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Late to this thread. What runway at SYD was in use when these attacks were mounted, 16 or 07? (ie, Drummoyne or Bexley? [=bored rich kids or... (edited to say) NOT bored rich kids?])
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l@zer demographics
I didn't get a day and runway in use rundown, but I did get an earful about most of them coming from the Hills district, Epping, Five Dock, Drummoyne and that was about it. I would have expected the nasty little bastards obliquely referred to earlier in this thread might have chosen say Summer Hill or Newtown or somewhere close in. The helicopter incidents did include attacks quite close to inner city or eastern suburbs hospitals.