Sydney’s second airport revealed
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Sydney’s second airport revealed
SMH March 7, 2008
REGULAR domestic airline services could start taking off from Bankstown Airport as soon as next year, after the low-cost carrier Tiger Airways provided its strongest signal yet that it wants to use the airport as its Sydney hub.
QantasLink and Virgin Blue are already negotiating with the airport's private owners.
Tiger Airways, part-owned by Singapore Airlines, announced yesterday it was preparing to add two 144-seat Airbus A319 aircraft to its Australian fleet of 180-seat A320s by the end of this year.
The order for the smaller jets is seen as code in aviation circles that Tiger wants to bypass Sydney Airport and use Bankstown, which could handle A319s if it extended its main runway.
The airport, founded in 1940, was once regarded one of the largest general aviation airports in the world. But since it was privatised five years ago it has been trying to squeeze out smaller aviation businesses.
"We believe bringing the A319s into the fleet in Australia will give us great access to land at smaller airfields in the country," the airline's chief executive, Tony Davis, said. "We believe this will open up a number of airports."
When asked if Bankstown could be serviced by Tiger, he said: "It's for the airport to determine whether or not they are able to allow jet [aircraft]."
Tiger Airways has already held talks with the airport's management, which has been seeking to attract regular passenger flights for the past year. But the airport still needs Federal Government approval to extend the runway to handle A319s.
Virgin Blue has also recently introduced a fleet of Brazilian-made Embraer jets into its fleet, small enough to use Bankstown. It is believed to be interested in using the airport. QantasLink has also held talks with the airport's management to fly its propeller aircraft into Bankstown.
Since introducing domestic flights out of Melbourne in November, Tiger has so far shied away from Sydney. There are rumours it has been pressuring Sydney Airport to establish a terminal for low-cost operators.
Tiger, which models itself on the Irish no-frills airline Ryanair, has expressed its interest in using secondary airports which charge lower landing fees, allowing budget airlines to offer lower fares. Bankstown Airport expressed enthusiasm for Tiger's A319 order.
"It will be a great aircraft for Bankstown," said an airport spokeswoman, Meredith Laverty. "We're excited about it."
She added that it would be a great opportunity for western Sydney to have regular passenger traffic. Airbus held discussions with the airport last year on the suitability of the jet.
But Ms Laverty said it could be 18 months before Bankstown could handle domestic airlines such as Tiger, because it needed to upgrade its taxiways, runways and other infrastructure.
Bankstown already has permission to handle 18 regular passenger flights a day. While this is small - Sydney Airport handles about 500 domestic and regional aircraft movements every day - Bankstown could seek permission to lift this cap.
Airlines have expressed increasing concern that Sydney Airport's domestic T2 terminal is becoming too congested to handle more services. The airport denies this.
Bankstown Airport could face stiff local opposition to plans to extend its runway for Tiger, even though Airbus says the A319 is a quiet plane given its steep landing angle.
There are at least three schools, two preschools and an aged-care centre near the airport which could be affected by increased aircraft noise that would result from the proposal.
"The noise level could be an issue," the chief executive of Bankstown City Aged Care, Terry Madden, said. "We'd need to know what acoustic level these planes are going to have and therefore what noise levels are going to be created."
A Bankstown councillor, Allan Winterbottom, said there would be considerable local opposition if it was to go ahead.
"The problem is that there's no curfew. We could have these planes flying over at all hours."
REGULAR domestic airline services could start taking off from Bankstown Airport as soon as next year, after the low-cost carrier Tiger Airways provided its strongest signal yet that it wants to use the airport as its Sydney hub.
QantasLink and Virgin Blue are already negotiating with the airport's private owners.
Tiger Airways, part-owned by Singapore Airlines, announced yesterday it was preparing to add two 144-seat Airbus A319 aircraft to its Australian fleet of 180-seat A320s by the end of this year.
The order for the smaller jets is seen as code in aviation circles that Tiger wants to bypass Sydney Airport and use Bankstown, which could handle A319s if it extended its main runway.
The airport, founded in 1940, was once regarded one of the largest general aviation airports in the world. But since it was privatised five years ago it has been trying to squeeze out smaller aviation businesses.
"We believe bringing the A319s into the fleet in Australia will give us great access to land at smaller airfields in the country," the airline's chief executive, Tony Davis, said. "We believe this will open up a number of airports."
When asked if Bankstown could be serviced by Tiger, he said: "It's for the airport to determine whether or not they are able to allow jet [aircraft]."
Tiger Airways has already held talks with the airport's management, which has been seeking to attract regular passenger flights for the past year. But the airport still needs Federal Government approval to extend the runway to handle A319s.
Virgin Blue has also recently introduced a fleet of Brazilian-made Embraer jets into its fleet, small enough to use Bankstown. It is believed to be interested in using the airport. QantasLink has also held talks with the airport's management to fly its propeller aircraft into Bankstown.
Since introducing domestic flights out of Melbourne in November, Tiger has so far shied away from Sydney. There are rumours it has been pressuring Sydney Airport to establish a terminal for low-cost operators.
Tiger, which models itself on the Irish no-frills airline Ryanair, has expressed its interest in using secondary airports which charge lower landing fees, allowing budget airlines to offer lower fares. Bankstown Airport expressed enthusiasm for Tiger's A319 order.
"It will be a great aircraft for Bankstown," said an airport spokeswoman, Meredith Laverty. "We're excited about it."
She added that it would be a great opportunity for western Sydney to have regular passenger traffic. Airbus held discussions with the airport last year on the suitability of the jet.
But Ms Laverty said it could be 18 months before Bankstown could handle domestic airlines such as Tiger, because it needed to upgrade its taxiways, runways and other infrastructure.
Bankstown already has permission to handle 18 regular passenger flights a day. While this is small - Sydney Airport handles about 500 domestic and regional aircraft movements every day - Bankstown could seek permission to lift this cap.
Airlines have expressed increasing concern that Sydney Airport's domestic T2 terminal is becoming too congested to handle more services. The airport denies this.
Bankstown Airport could face stiff local opposition to plans to extend its runway for Tiger, even though Airbus says the A319 is a quiet plane given its steep landing angle.
There are at least three schools, two preschools and an aged-care centre near the airport which could be affected by increased aircraft noise that would result from the proposal.
"The noise level could be an issue," the chief executive of Bankstown City Aged Care, Terry Madden, said. "We'd need to know what acoustic level these planes are going to have and therefore what noise levels are going to be created."
A Bankstown councillor, Allan Winterbottom, said there would be considerable local opposition if it was to go ahead.
"The problem is that there's no curfew. We could have these planes flying over at all hours."
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Next thing you will hear about after the increased noise, is the RPT boys complaining about C152's and Traumahawks getting in their way at their own airport
.
Mind you in makes sense. Same at YBAF.........better to use the place than lose the place!
Just keep the air fair! (sorry cheap slogan...)
J
.Mind you in makes sense. Same at YBAF.........better to use the place than lose the place!
Just keep the air fair! (sorry cheap slogan...)
J
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"GoKat 319, join upwind, you're number 4, follow a Basair C152 with an indian student who can barely speak english doing night circuits just turning downwind'
If the pax survive that, they can spend 1/2 an hour explaining to the taxi dispatcher they're at the Bankstown Airport Terminal, which is at the bottom of Airport Avenue, then wait an hour for the cabbie to rock up because he couldn't find Airport Avenue and just did the rounds of the perimeter road trying to work out what hangar number you were at.
There's ALOT to sort out at that joint before it can be a meaningful passenger port.
PS It's the A318 certified for steep approach profiles - not 319
If the pax survive that, they can spend 1/2 an hour explaining to the taxi dispatcher they're at the Bankstown Airport Terminal, which is at the bottom of Airport Avenue, then wait an hour for the cabbie to rock up because he couldn't find Airport Avenue and just did the rounds of the perimeter road trying to work out what hangar number you were at.
There's ALOT to sort out at that joint before it can be a meaningful passenger port.
PS It's the A318 certified for steep approach profiles - not 319
Evertonian
I guess when they decided to use Avalon, it was a bit of a buggah that there was nothing there....but that was probably a positive as well...nothing was there to get in the way.
I still think OzJet should've stuck with their Moorrabbin-Sydney idea using 146's. I reckon that would've been a nice little earner...provided they could find willing cabin crew to crew 'em!
I still think OzJet should've stuck with their Moorrabbin-Sydney idea using 146's. I reckon that would've been a nice little earner...provided they could find willing cabin crew to crew 'em!
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Not likely. From news.com.au:
Bankstown won't fly, says minister
Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font March 7, 2008 - 2:30PM
Latest related coverage
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Revealed: second airport
Your Say: Should Bankstown be Sydney's second airport?
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Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has ruled out any expansion of Bankstown Airport as a second domestic flight hub in Sydney.
Mr Albanese says the airport's location in a densely populated area and its proximity to the existing Sydney International Airport makes it an unsuitable site.
"When it comes to Bankstown Airport being Sydney's second airport, it simply won't fly,'' he told reporters today.
"This isn't a new proposal, it's been around for some time. The previous government considered moving some of the planes from Sydney Airport to Bankstown Airport.
"It's an inappropriate site and there are a whole range of practical issues of where it is in a densely populated suburb, and there are issues of flight path confusion as it is quite close aeronautically to Sydney Airport.''
Any expansion of an airport is a federal government matter, and Mr Albanese today ruled out offering his approval.
"I'm saying Bankstown Airport won't be Sydney's second airport,'' he said.
And the operator of Bankstown Airport says it does not have any agreement with any airline to operate regular large-scale passenger services.
"The speculation on any airline about to offer passenger services from Bankstown is premature," Sydney Metropolitan Airport Bankstown said in a statement today.
"The airport does not currently have the infrastructure to handle large regular passenger operations."
The airport says an announcement by Tiger Airways that it is buying two 144-seat Airbus A319 aircraft is a matter for the airline.
The announcement has been seen as an indication that Tiger Airways aims to run regular services to and from Bankstown airport, which could accommodate the A319s if its runways were extended.
However, the airport's chief executive, Kim Ellis, said regular passenger operations would require significant investment and changes which could take up to two years to complete, following approvals and extensive consultation.
"We do not have an agreement or deal with any airline to operate regular passenger services from Bankstown," Mr Ellis said in the statement.
"Extensive public consultation and relevant approvals are required well before any significant runway and taxiway works are carried out.
"Any changes we make to the airport will involve extensive and detailed consultation with all of our stakeholders, the local community, elected officials, our tenants, airport users and regulatory authorities."
He says the airline welcomes the media interest, but, "Sydney Metropolitan Airport Bankstown is not the second Sydney Airport".
AAP
Bankstown won't fly, says minister
Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font March 7, 2008 - 2:30PM
Latest related coverage
Mayor calls for Bankstown curfew
Revealed: second airport
Your Say: Should Bankstown be Sydney's second airport?
Advertisement
Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has ruled out any expansion of Bankstown Airport as a second domestic flight hub in Sydney.
Mr Albanese says the airport's location in a densely populated area and its proximity to the existing Sydney International Airport makes it an unsuitable site.
"When it comes to Bankstown Airport being Sydney's second airport, it simply won't fly,'' he told reporters today.
"This isn't a new proposal, it's been around for some time. The previous government considered moving some of the planes from Sydney Airport to Bankstown Airport.
"It's an inappropriate site and there are a whole range of practical issues of where it is in a densely populated suburb, and there are issues of flight path confusion as it is quite close aeronautically to Sydney Airport.''
Any expansion of an airport is a federal government matter, and Mr Albanese today ruled out offering his approval.
"I'm saying Bankstown Airport won't be Sydney's second airport,'' he said.
And the operator of Bankstown Airport says it does not have any agreement with any airline to operate regular large-scale passenger services.
"The speculation on any airline about to offer passenger services from Bankstown is premature," Sydney Metropolitan Airport Bankstown said in a statement today.
"The airport does not currently have the infrastructure to handle large regular passenger operations."
The airport says an announcement by Tiger Airways that it is buying two 144-seat Airbus A319 aircraft is a matter for the airline.
The announcement has been seen as an indication that Tiger Airways aims to run regular services to and from Bankstown airport, which could accommodate the A319s if its runways were extended.
However, the airport's chief executive, Kim Ellis, said regular passenger operations would require significant investment and changes which could take up to two years to complete, following approvals and extensive consultation.
"We do not have an agreement or deal with any airline to operate regular passenger services from Bankstown," Mr Ellis said in the statement.
"Extensive public consultation and relevant approvals are required well before any significant runway and taxiway works are carried out.
"Any changes we make to the airport will involve extensive and detailed consultation with all of our stakeholders, the local community, elected officials, our tenants, airport users and regulatory authorities."
He says the airline welcomes the media interest, but, "Sydney Metropolitan Airport Bankstown is not the second Sydney Airport".
AAP
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JAK how's that confounded French Chainsaw going?
The last time I diverted in there with the Dash the taxi driver scumbags refused to go there to pick up 36 fares. The reason? They don't feel safe going there after dark, according to the dispatcher 
I have greater fear getting in a cab, the way some of those idiots drive compared to security at the airport
If taxis refuse to go there after dark, BAL has a major image and security problem to address before RPT starts going there.....
Plus there is no public transport infrastructure (currently) to get people out of the aiport.
If the pax survive that, they can spend 1/2 an hour explaining to the taxi dispatcher they're at the Bankstown Airport Terminal, which is at the bottom of Airport Avenue, then wait an hour for the cabbie to rock up because he couldn't find Airport Avenue and just did the rounds of the perimeter road trying to work out what hangar number you were at.
I have greater fear getting in a cab, the way some of those idiots drive compared to security at the airport
If taxis refuse to go there after dark, BAL has a major image and security problem to address before RPT starts going there.....
Plus there is no public transport infrastructure (currently) to get people out of the aiport.
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I think you can completely discount any chance of the ALP allowing an airport anywhere near their heartland.
Perhaps Richmond would be a good idea. Now where do we put those pesky airforce people...
Buy an aircraft carrier and put the buggers out to sea where the fish can't complain about aircraft noise
Perhaps Richmond would be a good idea. Now where do we put those pesky airforce people...
Buy an aircraft carrier and put the buggers out to sea where the fish can't complain about aircraft noise
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Bankstown? They'll need flare pods, anti laser goggles and God (or should that be 'Allah'?) only knows what other countermeasures, to counter the groundfire from a large number of 'locals' who originally come from areas where shooting at noisy, annoying airliners is a national sport.
I think Tiger and other airlines wanting to use Bankstown might get away with it as long as they promise they'll only approach and take off during the ad. breaks while 'Home and Away' and 'Big Brother' are on.
I think Tiger and other airlines wanting to use Bankstown might get away with it as long as they promise they'll only approach and take off during the ad. breaks while 'Home and Away' and 'Big Brother' are on.
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Options Sydney Basin
Walrus 7
Years ago there was a study/proposal that one option for the Sydney basin was Williamtown/ Newcastle, in conjunction with a high speed rail connection (like Eurostar etc) to Sydney.
It would work.
Tmb
Years ago there was a study/proposal that one option for the Sydney basin was Williamtown/ Newcastle, in conjunction with a high speed rail connection (like Eurostar etc) to Sydney.
It would work.
Tmb
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Problem will be our friends at Macquarie Bank, who get a veto over any 'major' airport development within 100km of YSSY. Thank Little Johnnie and his good mate Max Moore-Wilton (who happened to slink out of the PM's Department and into Macquarie Airports) for that little cracker. One might hope comments shooting down Bankstown are not being made with an eye to anyone's post-government gig... 
Riccy would work, close to the putative catchment area, less issue with locals, a train station across the road, a good ILS-ed runway, no need to upgrade twys or any of the rest of the hardware, maybe just a bit of a tack-on to Air Movements (which has its own entrance anyway so no punters driving through the base proper). Indeed if it resulted in upgrades to local feeder roads and train services, the locals might actually support it.
Riccy would work, close to the putative catchment area, less issue with locals, a train station across the road, a good ILS-ed runway, no need to upgrade twys or any of the rest of the hardware, maybe just a bit of a tack-on to Air Movements (which has its own entrance anyway so no punters driving through the base proper). Indeed if it resulted in upgrades to local feeder roads and train services, the locals might actually support it.
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Gotta love a media beat up
Biggest media beat up for a while!! The proximity of BK to SY means a major restructure of the airspace would be required. Flight training and GA obviously would end up moved to CN and WOL (not a bad thing!)
The only real sollution to a second airport (without building a completely new airport) is Goulburn with a high speed rail link to Sydney. In this day and age the military bases are becoming busier and Williamtown will never expand the RPT apron or allow more movements (NB: no longer an international alternate)
The only real sollution to a second airport (without building a completely new airport) is Goulburn with a high speed rail link to Sydney. In this day and age the military bases are becoming busier and Williamtown will never expand the RPT apron or allow more movements (NB: no longer an international alternate)
Hugh Jarse
Can you tell us the story of diverting into BK in a Dash full of pax, would be an interesting read.
The place is locked up at night tighter than Fort Knox. A while back, to Global expresses had to move to BK at 12 pm from YSSY because runway works were closing at 16R. Apparantly the poor drivers had top climb over the fence cause they couldnt find anyone with a key to the gates.
Can you tell us the story of diverting into BK in a Dash full of pax, would be an interesting read.
The place is locked up at night tighter than Fort Knox. A while back, to Global expresses had to move to BK at 12 pm from YSSY because runway works were closing at 16R. Apparantly the poor drivers had top climb over the fence cause they couldnt find anyone with a key to the gates.
P-A-F wrote:
I never thought I'd honestly say this: I agree with you P-A-F.... well at least up to the point of moving the RAAF. IMHO there is no need, just keep it a Joint User Facility with the RAAF on the Northern side, and the Civvies on the southern side where the road should be moved from and diverted around near the University/TAFE/Ag College to make room on the southern side for a N/S runway complex, and a decent upgrade of the railway to at least two side by side lines and a ring line to Campbelltown - which by itself has been overdue for 20 years.
The Sydney basin has become a victim of its own slothery in the way it has expanded without massively upgrading its infrastructure, especially in the past 20 years. Badgeries was never going to work due to approaches over houses from every direction. Granted there is some fog from time to time at Richmond, but hey - why not install Australia's first operational Cat III ILS?
OzG3, it was difficult enough when we diverted there one morning when CB got well and truly fogged-in. I can say that even during the day the airport struggles to cope with even a smaller RPT aircraft, let alone what would have happened to Jarse at night.
Personally I think if the Gov't is serious they would buy the land to enable 18/36 at Richmond (mind you there would be a crap load of earth works required to level it) and make that the next Sydney Airport, and divert the rail track to make a Richmond Airport rail station. Then move the RAAF to Dubbo (i.e. a better place than Sydney) - better quality locals there . Problem being the Lower North Shore brigade would resign - and resign instantly
The Sydney basin has become a victim of its own slothery in the way it has expanded without massively upgrading its infrastructure, especially in the past 20 years. Badgeries was never going to work due to approaches over houses from every direction. Granted there is some fog from time to time at Richmond, but hey - why not install Australia's first operational Cat III ILS?
OzG3, it was difficult enough when we diverted there one morning when CB got well and truly fogged-in. I can say that even during the day the airport struggles to cope with even a smaller RPT aircraft, let alone what would have happened to Jarse at night.
Smart move, fly into Bankstown spend hour plus travelling to Sydney airport to connect to fly somewhere else, a great government initiative!
RPT Jet traffic into YSBK that will help the traffic flow situation into YSSY at peak times especially those on a crappy southerly day, when its gusting 45 knots. No doubt 18/36 at YSBK will be upgraded to jet standard, sorry that is closed because the airport owners said that strong southerly winds don't won't affect the airport operations!!!!!
Why don't they upgrade Newcastle and make it the second Sydney airport?
RPT Jet traffic into YSBK that will help the traffic flow situation into YSSY at peak times especially those on a crappy southerly day, when its gusting 45 knots. No doubt 18/36 at YSBK will be upgraded to jet standard, sorry that is closed because the airport owners said that strong southerly winds don't won't affect the airport operations!!!!!
Why don't they upgrade Newcastle and make it the second Sydney airport?