Rex Cancel More Flights
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australasia
Age: 60
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys. Sorry to hear about the attrition rate at REX. Could someone highlight the salary package for Captains and FOs at REX? Just interested why people are leaving what seems to be a good job as not too many have said anything negative about the work or flying there. Cheers and good luck. FF
It's a great job.
I would be quite happy to see out the rest of my career at REX (and I am not alone!).
Problem is the hard working professionals have seen little in the way of acknowledgement of their worth. The Chairman's odd pep talk simply does not cut it.
Initial training is well developed, Intensive but of a high standard. The checking is also of a high standard, as evidenced by the now 50% initial failure rate!
People leave for a number of reasons. But the reality is that it is difficult to raise a family on the salary if you live in Sydney, or for that matter anywhere now. $42K P/A once checked to line. Assuming you have the min experience requirements, you are able to survive the training and checking process (with little experience on the type), and there are any Check and trainers left! Your ist years Captains salary will be $68K P/A!
These numbers do improve with years of service, but there are so many better opportunities out there, that people are now leaving what could be one of the best careers in aviation.
I would be quite happy to see out the rest of my career at REX (and I am not alone!).
Problem is the hard working professionals have seen little in the way of acknowledgement of their worth. The Chairman's odd pep talk simply does not cut it.
Initial training is well developed, Intensive but of a high standard. The checking is also of a high standard, as evidenced by the now 50% initial failure rate!
People leave for a number of reasons. But the reality is that it is difficult to raise a family on the salary if you live in Sydney, or for that matter anywhere now. $42K P/A once checked to line. Assuming you have the min experience requirements, you are able to survive the training and checking process (with little experience on the type), and there are any Check and trainers left! Your ist years Captains salary will be $68K P/A!
These numbers do improve with years of service, but there are so many better opportunities out there, that people are now leaving what could be one of the best careers in aviation.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 10th Feb 2008 at 19:56.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Krusty
Can REX increase their rates by $15 per flight and still attract about the same number of passengers? If they increase rates by around 10% and lose 10% of passengers then the price rise is cancelled out.
Out of interest, if you had money to invest would you buy REX shares?
Can REX increase their rates by $15 per flight and still attract about the same number of passengers? If they increase rates by around 10% and lose 10% of passengers then the price rise is cancelled out.
Out of interest, if you had money to invest would you buy REX shares?
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Way, way, way up there
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xxgoldxx I hope I get the right area you defined as 'South'.
You past it - no! You're in the prime of your life
thats what I keep telling myself anyway 
Below are positions I know of. Are these companies keeping up with the times (or trying to) or are they even more in need of crew since fewer pilots want to go North (those that like to have their/a cushy job down south
). Know a few of those who want a turboprop gig to move forward but don't want to move!!
DN - SA (many adverts), Dash, two crew and $100++
DN - PAA, Kingair, single pilot, $90+
DN & CS - Skytrans, two crew, Dash, $87+
My conditions okay (8 days off - 1 weekend, 1 sat or sun, most in groups of 2 or more) can accept days off if choose with penalty paid, 6 weeks pa, allowances . . . . .
Thanks for the salary update Krusty. It is a bit ordinary given the state of the market when I compare it to my 5x '0' salary (turboprop), but the company wanted us experienced guys to stay, so now I
. It's going to be hard to leave and 'live' in Sydney on what they offer.
Seems disrespectul how management treat pilots at times 
Lifestyle is important - Rex and the like could/does/did? provide it, but money does help to this end. I would update an application with them if they offered more, and, unless I am wrong, the overall morale improves.
Howdy Spanwise
Not a bad idea and hopefully that Forum would only be around for a short time. These threads do go to that way quickly, but as I see it, pilots have always been on the 'back foot' with T&C. Pilots are now on the front foot and management don't like this reversal of "demand and supply" - they had it too good for too long.
You past it - no! You're in the prime of your life
thats what I keep telling myself anyway Below are positions I know of. Are these companies keeping up with the times (or trying to) or are they even more in need of crew since fewer pilots want to go North (those that like to have their/a cushy job down south
). Know a few of those who want a turboprop gig to move forward but don't want to move!! DN - SA (many adverts), Dash, two crew and $100++
DN - PAA, Kingair, single pilot, $90+
DN & CS - Skytrans, two crew, Dash, $87+
My conditions okay (8 days off - 1 weekend, 1 sat or sun, most in groups of 2 or more) can accept days off if choose with penalty paid, 6 weeks pa, allowances . . . . .
Thanks for the salary update Krusty. It is a bit ordinary given the state of the market when I compare it to my 5x '0' salary (turboprop), but the company wanted us experienced guys to stay, so now I
. It's going to be hard to leave and 'live' in Sydney on what they offer.
there are so many better opportunities out there
Lifestyle is important - Rex and the like could/does/did? provide it, but money does help to this end. I would update an application with them if they offered more, and, unless I am wrong, the overall morale improves.
Howdy Spanwise
Not a bad idea and hopefully that Forum would only be around for a short time. These threads do go to that way quickly, but as I see it, pilots have always been on the 'back foot' with T&C. Pilots are now on the front foot and management don't like this reversal of "demand and supply" - they had it too good for too long.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Higher Wages = Less Pax!!!
The reality of the wages scenario comes down to the reality that unless a place is flooded out, then there are always going to be numerous alternatives to flying. Once ticket prices reach a certain level, people will start using the logical alternatives such as cars, busses, rail etc. And that point is reached a lot faster as the planes get smaller. You'd have to guess that they all do the sums regularly, and if it was financially better to pay lots and lots more, as opposed to paying less, losing pilots and cutting flights, then they'd just do it. Who wouldn't???
FC
FC
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Office
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rex
No airline in the world can withstand a 60% annual attrition rate of is pilot strength
Rather than just creaming what sounds like "PILOT SHORTAGE, you pilot poaching b
d jet operators, and IT'S NOT OUR FAULT!!", shouldn't they do something concrete (putting a weak cadet scheme in place doesn't count) to attract and retain experienced people? Or have they completely given up on it and operating on the basis of 'we won't pay more, we won't treat people better, because they'll leave anyway', 'let's just cancel services where-ever necessary and keep the more profitable routes' mentality? Or are they possibly taking the opportunity to blame pilot shortage to cut out the unprofitable routes anyway?I won't go into the effect of wages on ticket prices because that gets too complicated (although wage rises don't need to mean a big % increase in ticket price because wages aren't generally so huge a component in operating costs), but at least they can 'try' to keep the experience level through various means, surely?
Fatcat 23.
That's ok. don't offer the pilots more, and the result will be the same. People will not have to seek alternative forms of transport as the decision will be made for them.
And while we're on the ecobabble merry go round, just watch the prices at REX rise over the next 12 months due to the lost economies of scale.
It'll be a hell of a lot more than $15 a ticket!
Adrian A.
See above rationale. And would I invest in REX, with a pilot attrition rate of 60%! Not a chance.
That's ok. don't offer the pilots more, and the result will be the same. People will not have to seek alternative forms of transport as the decision will be made for them.
And while we're on the ecobabble merry go round, just watch the prices at REX rise over the next 12 months due to the lost economies of scale.
It'll be a hell of a lot more than $15 a ticket!
Adrian A.
See above rationale. And would I invest in REX, with a pilot attrition rate of 60%! Not a chance.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 13th Feb 2008 at 01:58.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Krusty,
At least your management have organised decent raincoats for you
It's a shame that those people who actually want to stay are being thrown on the same scrapheap as those that always intended to move on. The "stayers" are the bearers of your flight standards if they stay... Without them, well.....
Any savvy management that knows their staff (not as numbers) would be able to discriminate between the two and tailor a suitable retention package that targets the people they wish to keep.......
Unfortunately, there is no such animal in Australia. The short term greed is just too much........
At least your management have organised decent raincoats for you
It's a shame that those people who actually want to stay are being thrown on the same scrapheap as those that always intended to move on. The "stayers" are the bearers of your flight standards if they stay... Without them, well.....
Any savvy management that knows their staff (not as numbers) would be able to discriminate between the two and tailor a suitable retention package that targets the people they wish to keep.......
Unfortunately, there is no such animal in Australia. The short term greed is just too much........
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its getting a tad worrying
I’m actually getting a little bit concerned about the frankly excellent way airlines like Rex have managed to pull to wool over the publics eyes. Yesterday I spent a few moments on news.com.au reading the story on the cheap air fares being offered by J*. One of the “readers” had commented that “J* could afford to offer such fares, just look at what they pay their pilots”. The response to this was basically, “if you don’t like the pay, move on. There is a pilot shortage you know!!” This was not an isolated comment either.
Now I understand you wouldn’t expect too much more articulation from these types, but it does display a rather worrying trend. It seems the majority of the flying public 1) Have no idea that there isn’t a pilot shortage and 2) are swallowing the nonsense the REX etc are feeding them.
Why are these airlines continually allowed to run their employees into the ground, eroding their morale and self respect, then cry poor to the media who in turn, don’t question it???
I am at a loss to understand why any of the current media outlets have not for one moment decided to bring this story to the public, or at least try to “sniff around” to get some facts that haven’t been spoon fed to them. I can recall at least four conversations in the past 2 weeks where folks have refused to believe the T’s and C’s at certain airlines. They seriously think I’m BS’ing them.
Meanwhile Rex et al are cancelling more services, treating their drivers and crew like sh*t, while successfully manipulating public opinion to point the finger of blame at you guys. Sounds almost like an evil organisation
bent on having the Govt offer grants to bring in cheap overseas labour so that the "bush" doesnt loose its air connection.
Such a shame.
Now I understand you wouldn’t expect too much more articulation from these types, but it does display a rather worrying trend. It seems the majority of the flying public 1) Have no idea that there isn’t a pilot shortage and 2) are swallowing the nonsense the REX etc are feeding them.
Why are these airlines continually allowed to run their employees into the ground, eroding their morale and self respect, then cry poor to the media who in turn, don’t question it???
I am at a loss to understand why any of the current media outlets have not for one moment decided to bring this story to the public, or at least try to “sniff around” to get some facts that haven’t been spoon fed to them. I can recall at least four conversations in the past 2 weeks where folks have refused to believe the T’s and C’s at certain airlines. They seriously think I’m BS’ing them.
Meanwhile Rex et al are cancelling more services, treating their drivers and crew like sh*t, while successfully manipulating public opinion to point the finger of blame at you guys. Sounds almost like an evil organisation
bent on having the Govt offer grants to bring in cheap overseas labour so that the "bush" doesnt loose its air connection.Such a shame.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what's new?
The "system" has been hoodwinking pilot trainees for decades. The PR section of the airlines get the media to publish what is good for their business.
I think there is a shortage of experienced, type rated pilots in Australia who the airlines can put immediately to work with little expense. But there are others who have spent tens of thousands of dollars getting themselves trained outside the airlines who could be airline pilots after a little extra training. The airlines are VERY reluctant to recruit them and complete their training. That costs money, and they may stay only a short time.
The airlines have to order their new aircraft years ahead. They could be training pilots for them in this time. But they try to get pilots from overseas, or other airlines, or get governments to subsidise that training. They will recruit from outside the airline system and provide training at their own cost as a last resort.
Those airlines that have a long term plan for crewing, and training facilities will do better than the others.
Times have changed.
I think there is a shortage of experienced, type rated pilots in Australia who the airlines can put immediately to work with little expense. But there are others who have spent tens of thousands of dollars getting themselves trained outside the airlines who could be airline pilots after a little extra training. The airlines are VERY reluctant to recruit them and complete their training. That costs money, and they may stay only a short time.
The airlines have to order their new aircraft years ahead. They could be training pilots for them in this time. But they try to get pilots from overseas, or other airlines, or get governments to subsidise that training. They will recruit from outside the airline system and provide training at their own cost as a last resort.
Those airlines that have a long term plan for crewing, and training facilities will do better than the others.
Times have changed.
Last edited by bushy; 13th Feb 2008 at 01:42.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: mel
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The message is getting through....
Check out the share price today.
I can not understand Rex management/owners!
Why are they so pig-headed and are willing to (wanting to) bury the operation.I can't see it..
The Mangalore Cadet Program..whats that about?
Anyone?... Alternative explanations please.
Check out the share price today.
I can not understand Rex management/owners!
Why are they so pig-headed and are willing to (wanting to) bury the operation.I can't see it..
The Mangalore Cadet Program..whats that about?
Anyone?... Alternative explanations please.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why are these airlines continually allowed to run their employees into the ground, eroding their morale and self respect, then cry poor to the media who in turn, don’t question it???
Experienced pilots are a bit thin now and those pilots still in the game have to learn how to exploit the environment for their own ends in the same ruthless manner simply by remaining flexible and moving to areas where your skillset is valued most. What happens to a company because of employee resignations is frankly none of your business after you leave. The employers have to compete over you and all the whining in the media is simply confirmation that the execs don't like the situation they find themselves in. There's no need to make a public case for the pilots' position. It's a free country and no one with any sense is going to blame anyone else for trying to better themselves...unless you're a PO'ed regional airline executive looking down the empty barrel of an annual bonus and a resume entry that screams, "Loser!" to any future employer.
The irony of the situation shouldn't be lost. As the regionals cut back on routes, the same companies become top heavy. They have to start shedding management jobs at some stage soon. There's a good chance the executive that blinks first and suggests that pilots be paid more will be the first one out the door. They certainly can't cut back on pilots unless they close up shop. Sit back and enjoy the show.
Last edited by Lodown; 13th Feb 2008 at 04:11.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Media coverage
Boardpig, have a look at a draft for a response to a recent BS Rex media release:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=312911&page=2
I think we must make the pilots' voices heard and go against the BS the media publishes on behalf of aviation PR interests. Any support, be it from the media, the general public, or other sources, will help shape the collective perception, and that includes the managers who are on the other side of the table when it comes to negotiating the next T&C deal!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=312911&page=2
I think we must make the pilots' voices heard and go against the BS the media publishes on behalf of aviation PR interests. Any support, be it from the media, the general public, or other sources, will help shape the collective perception, and that includes the managers who are on the other side of the table when it comes to negotiating the next T&C deal!
Plankbender.
Very sage and accurate. However I have to agree with Lodown on this one. I have seen the same logical arguements put before the management and board of REX. In a 2 page rebuttal the REX chief of staff systematically discounted every one of these arguements!
History has shown that nothing we say will change their mind. The only option for REX pilots is to keep on doing what they have been, and that's leave for greener pastures!
As insane as it appears, the management of REX do not or cannot acknowledge the fundamental reasons for this crisis. The only thing left is the inexorable decline of REX.
Perhaps, at the 11th hour they may see the light. The tragedy is that it will be way too late by then.
Very sage and accurate. However I have to agree with Lodown on this one. I have seen the same logical arguements put before the management and board of REX. In a 2 page rebuttal the REX chief of staff systematically discounted every one of these arguements!
History has shown that nothing we say will change their mind. The only option for REX pilots is to keep on doing what they have been, and that's leave for greener pastures!
As insane as it appears, the management of REX do not or cannot acknowledge the fundamental reasons for this crisis. The only thing left is the inexorable decline of REX.
Perhaps, at the 11th hour they may see the light. The tragedy is that it will be way too late by then.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question for our clever friends like FATCAT23 and AIRCRAFT:
If rex was worth approximately 330 Million when shares were at their peak of around $2.90, and shares are now around $1.25, how much value has been lost? (sure the rest of the market has fallen, but not like this)
And your silly arguement about price elasticity - the old $5 (about 3% on average fares)ticket increase to fund adequate tech crew salaries will not get country people driving 6 hours in their cars. Cancelled services surely will
Even the arguement of reduced profits and same ticket price to fund pilot retention would have saved this result. Shareholders, customers and crew would have all been better off
But hey, the greed of some led to the present.
What the salary increase could have done is kept the network expanding - Increasing Rex pilot salary by 30-40%, which would have prevented the most of the more mature SAAB drivers from leaving
If rex was worth approximately 330 Million when shares were at their peak of around $2.90, and shares are now around $1.25, how much value has been lost? (sure the rest of the market has fallen, but not like this)
And your silly arguement about price elasticity - the old $5 (about 3% on average fares)ticket increase to fund adequate tech crew salaries will not get country people driving 6 hours in their cars. Cancelled services surely will
Even the arguement of reduced profits and same ticket price to fund pilot retention would have saved this result. Shareholders, customers and crew would have all been better off
But hey, the greed of some led to the present.What the salary increase could have done is kept the network expanding - Increasing Rex pilot salary by 30-40%, which would have prevented the most of the more mature SAAB drivers from leaving