REX EBA and the AFAP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REX EBA and the AFAP
Unfortunately the REX pilot group does not have much faith in the AFAP, myself included. We all know the history, but that's not an excuse 
We have ourselves to blame!!! There are some poor excuses amongst us who want the T&C's but won't support their union
Every REX pilot needs to get behind the AFAP NOW - and demand value for money. The AFAP is OUR proffesional negotiator, those of you not in the union should sign up and start putting the pressure on - stop making excuses
And Lawrie, you need to realise that you are representing us, at our cost - don't sympathise with the company. If you cannot do this we need another negotiator. THIS EBA, in the environment we are negotiating in will show your true value, if we don't make some serious ground we need a new union.
The company will pay what it has to for pilot labour, just as it will for fuel - and not a cent more. It is something we do have control over, we need to set minimums which are acceptable over the long term and we must be willing to withdraw labour through stike action if they don't come up with the money.
Come on all, start acting like men (and women)
We have ourselves to blame!!! There are some poor excuses amongst us who want the T&C's but won't support their union
Every REX pilot needs to get behind the AFAP NOW - and demand value for money. The AFAP is OUR proffesional negotiator, those of you not in the union should sign up and start putting the pressure on - stop making excuses
And Lawrie, you need to realise that you are representing us, at our cost - don't sympathise with the company. If you cannot do this we need another negotiator. THIS EBA, in the environment we are negotiating in will show your true value, if we don't make some serious ground we need a new union.
The company will pay what it has to for pilot labour, just as it will for fuel - and not a cent more. It is something we do have control over, we need to set minimums which are acceptable over the long term and we must be willing to withdraw labour through stike action if they don't come up with the money.
Come on all, start acting like men (and women)
Last edited by wethereyet; 6th Feb 2008 at 06:59. Reason: spelling
AFAP wasted space
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's just one of the pathetic excuses I hear from those who won't support the union. 
Thanks for your reply, but that is in fact a waste of space.
Those that won't pay their union won't pay a negotiator - they will say yes but the money will never show. So please make a useful contribution and not one that undermines the ability of our union to improve our T&C's.
By the same token our union needs to know that if they don't provide us with what we are paying for we will look elsewhere.
Thanks for your reply, but that is in fact a waste of space.
Those that won't pay their union won't pay a negotiator - they will say yes but the money will never show. So please make a useful contribution and not one that undermines the ability of our union to improve our T&C's.
By the same token our union needs to know that if they don't provide us with what we are paying for we will look elsewhere.
And what happens if the company says we can't afford that because of (insert lame excuse here) and will happily park aeroplanes as it has done in the past.
What next?
Are you willing to walk away from flying for REX just to get a rise, because the impression I get is that is what it will take. I don't think industrial action would change management attitude either.
What next?
Are you willing to walk away from flying for REX just to get a rise, because the impression I get is that is what it will take. I don't think industrial action would change management attitude either.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The company is critically linked to share price, and if they park aeroplanes their crew will find jobs elsewhere in this environment - and with no other crews available the company would almost entirely fail.
I know the owners are the kind that like to save face, but do you really think they will trash a company that had a total sharemarket value of over 300 million a few months back for an increase in labour costs of 2-3 million per year? they can add up, their not silly though and they will only pay what they think they have to - it is up to us to tell them what that is and not back down.
I know the owners are the kind that like to save face, but do you really think they will trash a company that had a total sharemarket value of over 300 million a few months back for an increase in labour costs of 2-3 million per year? they can add up, their not silly though and they will only pay what they think they have to - it is up to us to tell them what that is and not back down.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IF you have 100 pilots, paying 1% of their salary for representation, then, to me, you should get ONE negotiator for 100 per cent of the time for one year!!!
I know that people will say "but you get other benefits for what you pay... not just ONE person to look after your needs all the time"....
OK! Fair enough.... so what about a DECENT REPRESENTATION for 50% of the year????(per se)
If there are 100 pilots effectively giving up, in total, ONE pilots salary per year, then can't the union dedicate 20 hours per week to REX???
What do the pilots get at the moment ? 3 hours per week WHEN they ring about a rip off ??20 hours per week WHEN there is an EBA to fold to ?
Come on AFAP... it is time that YOU realised that the members are here for YOU, and that YOU should be there for the members!!!! AFAP members are NOT getting value for money at the moment. And if this trend continues, then, like substandard T&C's with their employer.... they WILL walk!!! then YOU (the afap) will be out of a job!!!!
I know that people will say "but you get other benefits for what you pay... not just ONE person to look after your needs all the time"....
OK! Fair enough.... so what about a DECENT REPRESENTATION for 50% of the year????(per se)
If there are 100 pilots effectively giving up, in total, ONE pilots salary per year, then can't the union dedicate 20 hours per week to REX???
What do the pilots get at the moment ? 3 hours per week WHEN they ring about a rip off ??20 hours per week WHEN there is an EBA to fold to ?
Come on AFAP... it is time that YOU realised that the members are here for YOU, and that YOU should be there for the members!!!! AFAP members are NOT getting value for money at the moment. And if this trend continues, then, like substandard T&C's with their employer.... they WILL walk!!! then YOU (the afap) will be out of a job!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why did the QF guys leave the AFAP in 1981?
Forget them, they are all yesterday's leftover men trying to get left over solutions for hard working pilots who are getting screwed each day by management.
Forget them, they are all yesterday's leftover men trying to get left over solutions for hard working pilots who are getting screwed each day by management.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pundit, forget the history... it does not contribute to our present cause.
The AFAP is our (REX) negotiator, and perhaps this is their last chance to be so.
So stop bad mouthing them about the past a contribute something positive to our cause.
The AFAP is our (REX) negotiator, and perhaps this is their last chance to be so.
So stop bad mouthing them about the past a contribute something positive to our cause.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact the last figures I saw for an entry level marine pilot was $165K.
Why do you (as a group) even bother talking about a strike and militancy? You don't need it. There are other jobs out there. Yes, it probably means uprooting your family and moving, but that's what millions of other people and their families do. You don't need to go into a meeting thumping desks and banging doors. It seems obvious that the management have heard your concerns and have elected not to take action on them. Accept that that is as far as you can realistically push the relationship. A strike won't achieve anything more and will probably do the opposite by giving your management the PR high ground, focussing public dissatisfaction and keeping your paycheques on zero for two, four, twelve (?) weeks.
A strike puts everyone into a corner with no way to back down. Local councils are appealing to the Feds and getting upset with Rex management for cutting some services. Do you want those councils sympathising with Rex management and turning their angst onto the pilots when services are cut completely? It's still a small industry. Do you want the tag as a "striking pilot" on you?
Send the message that is most effective and the least disruptive to your families. Take your labour and skills where they are appreciated. Get your resumes out, get your home life in order, consider other offers and leave at the appropriate time. Yes, Rex will have no choice but to raise T & C's or close their doors at some time in the future. Are you prepared to wait and hope on their terms, or leave on yours?
Last edited by Lodown; 6th Feb 2008 at 20:16.
Grivation wrote:
You are quite correct, but I can assure you they (I mean the drivers at places like Sydney Ferries, Stannards etc) are getting stuffed around just as much as most of us in this industry are with long and irregular hours/having no choice about getting called-in off RDOs etc.
Yes I do, and I stand by the figures I quoted.
I do agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though.
Probably the best organised and most successful unions in Australia are the maritime unions representing >95% of industry participants.
Do you know how much money a wharfie, marine pilot, tug driver, marine engineer or seaman etc make?
I do agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though.
Last edited by OpsNormal; 7th Feb 2008 at 01:21. Reason: By Request.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rex pilot problems
I'm getting a bit sick of the continueing bickering at Rex, if you fellas don't do something about your T&C's yourselves you're going to be stuck with with what you've got.
Let's face it, there are now and have always been, even going back into the Kendell days, a large group of the pilots who would not join the AFAP, no matter what happens, that group of "know it all dopes" who think they could sought it all out for themselves given half a chance. Well they have all had their chance and not one of them had the guts or the ccourage of their weak ambitions to take the bait, and in the long run have wrecked the proceedings for their own workmates.
The AFAP's weakened base has been caused by fracturing over the years by actions taken by various airline managements, Rex, Qantas, Virgin, Jet*, just to name a few, they have all treated the AFAP with distain, and will continue doing so until you fellas back the AFAP up.
If you don't like the T&Cs you have now, just walk somewhere else, the company cares stuff all about you, the CP and his team of sychophants care even less, they are just looking after no;1.
Rex does not care one iota about years of service, experience or ability. They are probably the most nonsavvy management I ever had to work with.
Back up your mates and they will back you up, 'cause no one else will.
Eh! if all else fails, "one out all out, everybody out" and leave the d***s at the top to turn out the lights. Or "shut up and put up."
If the company goes down the tube, it wont be the first and there is always somewhere else for you to go, but the bossboys will be loosing a lot of the only thing they care about.
Let's face it, there are now and have always been, even going back into the Kendell days, a large group of the pilots who would not join the AFAP, no matter what happens, that group of "know it all dopes" who think they could sought it all out for themselves given half a chance. Well they have all had their chance and not one of them had the guts or the ccourage of their weak ambitions to take the bait, and in the long run have wrecked the proceedings for their own workmates.
The AFAP's weakened base has been caused by fracturing over the years by actions taken by various airline managements, Rex, Qantas, Virgin, Jet*, just to name a few, they have all treated the AFAP with distain, and will continue doing so until you fellas back the AFAP up.
If you don't like the T&Cs you have now, just walk somewhere else, the company cares stuff all about you, the CP and his team of sychophants care even less, they are just looking after no;1.
Rex does not care one iota about years of service, experience or ability. They are probably the most nonsavvy management I ever had to work with.
Back up your mates and they will back you up, 'cause no one else will.
Eh! if all else fails, "one out all out, everybody out" and leave the d***s at the top to turn out the lights. Or "shut up and put up."
If the company goes down the tube, it wont be the first and there is always somewhere else for you to go, but the bossboys will be loosing a lot of the only thing they care about.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 57
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grivation skippers and engineers aren't MUA. AIMPE for the engineers, and skippers/mates are AMOU .... certainly in the case of the AIMPE it was capitulation after capitulation during the 1990s.
Ts&Cs down, engineers out of the engine room pulling ropes, crewing levels slashed etc etc
Sound familar?
Ts&Cs down, engineers out of the engine room pulling ropes, crewing levels slashed etc etc
Sound familar?
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REX pilots are the best in the world,just ask them.
You people need to realise that if REX management let the company go down someone will take it on, the towns that they service will make it happen look at all profitable routes that companies have gone bust on in the past most still have services.
Rex people also need to pull your heads out of each others A###S and look around you deserve what you get.
The person that started this thread I hope you do well sounds like you are the only one with anything between your legs but you are trying to rally a bunch of w#####s that are to chicken to stand up for themselves.
The reason other unions are strong is because the members stick together we have pole climbers that will watch you hang for there advancement.
Well thats my 2 cents
You people need to realise that if REX management let the company go down someone will take it on, the towns that they service will make it happen look at all profitable routes that companies have gone bust on in the past most still have services.
Rex people also need to pull your heads out of each others A###S and look around you deserve what you get.
The person that started this thread I hope you do well sounds like you are the only one with anything between your legs but you are trying to rally a bunch of w#####s that are to chicken to stand up for themselves.
The reason other unions are strong is because the members stick together we have pole climbers that will watch you hang for there advancement.
Well thats my 2 cents
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AFAP ????
maybe you should put the ultimatum to Lawrie, and the rest of those Eunuchs... and say... "Hey.... do your best. If we do NOT nlike it, we will vote the EBA down, AND.... we WILL get new representation!!!" ie... not JUST strike against the company, but also a Strike AGAINST the AFAP!!!!
I am Sure that the TWU etc will LOVE to meet 300 odd members who DO have the fortitude to take their future in their own hands!!!!!!
It is time to put the AFAP on notice.... TELL them that THIS is their LAST chance!!!! stand up... or F**K OFF!!!!!!!
What amuses me about the AFAP, is that they WILL post here when they think that they have something to say which conveys their supposed position.... but when people at the coalface voice their discontent they hide and sionk their heads in the sand and thionk that all is rosy because "we don't read pprune! "... LAWRIE!!!!!!!!! you have proved that you DO read these forums. What is your position here please ?
maybe you should put the ultimatum to Lawrie, and the rest of those Eunuchs... and say... "Hey.... do your best. If we do NOT nlike it, we will vote the EBA down, AND.... we WILL get new representation!!!" ie... not JUST strike against the company, but also a Strike AGAINST the AFAP!!!!
I am Sure that the TWU etc will LOVE to meet 300 odd members who DO have the fortitude to take their future in their own hands!!!!!!
It is time to put the AFAP on notice.... TELL them that THIS is their LAST chance!!!! stand up... or F**K OFF!!!!!!!
What amuses me about the AFAP, is that they WILL post here when they think that they have something to say which conveys their supposed position.... but when people at the coalface voice their discontent they hide and sionk their heads in the sand and thionk that all is rosy because "we don't read pprune! "... LAWRIE!!!!!!!!! you have proved that you DO read these forums. What is your position here please ?
Last edited by apache; 7th Feb 2008 at 11:06. Reason: just had another thought.....
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maritime Industry - Sydney Sea Pilots Pty Ltd - Launch Crews Award 1998.
Aggregate salaries
Master (with Engineer Qualifications)
$61,543.00 pa
Seaman
$47,925.00 pa
Aggregate salaries
Master (with Engineer Qualifications)
$61,543.00 pa
Seaman
$47,925.00 pa
Perhaps its gone up since 1998 due to crew shortages?
Couldn't find the latest data.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: south of the boarder
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get behind the AFAP, they will look after you - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, good one - here's an idea, pool your subs money have a big barbie and piss up then take it up the oight - the result will be the same but at least you get a feed!!!! When will you idiots wake up- Lawrie and his merry dimwits are there for the company - NOT YOU! EAA have many EBA'S to prove it. Here is how it will go, you put your log of claims to Lawrie- he says "They will never go for it" better water it down - "Here is what you should put forward" - "But Lawrie- that is worse than we had", "Well commercial pressures and all - you should accept it "IT'S THE BEST YOU WILL GET" .........................Sound familiar. You can quote me after your next EBA. Bring on the TWU I say!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You forget one `small thing' - a Union is comprised of its members, ie you, who collectively manage said union and hire professionals to manage pilots indusrial affairs.
(Conversly, others hire professional pilots to fly them safely from A - B)
A union is only as strong as its members make it and, more importantly, only achieves the best results for its members from the concerted, united strength of these members.
if you have a problem with your union, you have a problem with yourselves, individually or collectively.
Get in there and fixit - no one else will.
If all put as much time into their union as they do whingeing on PPrune then something constructive just may be achieved.
As Captain Trevor Corbett (RIP) said many, many years ago: "Dining table & bar talk may be highly entertaining but achieves little!"
DK
(Conversly, others hire professional pilots to fly them safely from A - B)
A union is only as strong as its members make it and, more importantly, only achieves the best results for its members from the concerted, united strength of these members.
if you have a problem with your union, you have a problem with yourselves, individually or collectively.
Get in there and fixit - no one else will.
If all put as much time into their union as they do whingeing on PPrune then something constructive just may be achieved.
As Captain Trevor Corbett (RIP) said many, many years ago: "Dining table & bar talk may be highly entertaining but achieves little!"
DK
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: south of the boarder
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dark, you know nothing- the EAA pilot council is a sub branch of the AFAP, meaning THE UNION TELLS THEM WHAT TO DO............members effectively have no say or control, just the way Lawrie likes it. You can ask for resolutions all you like and THEY decide what action and when.
The morons in Sydney who thought that one up are a bright bunch - we are still suffering today.
The morons in Sydney who thought that one up are a bright bunch - we are still suffering today.