QF pilots make a stand over blocked drains....
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad to see nothing has changed in the last 40 years.
Back in the 1960s the Hosties also said it wasn't them that did it.
IF you must dispose of these coffee grinds in flight, and the Company does not provide a suitable container, even the toilet would be preferable to the galley drain.
Back in the 1960s the Hosties also said it wasn't them that did it.
IF you must dispose of these coffee grinds in flight, and the Company does not provide a suitable container, even the toilet would be preferable to the galley drain.
"Excuse me....Excuse me....get out of the toilet you lazy passengers..I need to empty this Bodum"
Yeah right ,mate.
How about we have some sort of device where we can jettison the mess out into the atmosphere.Thats about as realistic as the toilet idea.probably some pilot who gets upset when they want their meal in the middle of a meal service and can't understand where the crew are.
As lobey said how about the company gives us the equipment to do the job.Plastic bags are easy to tear,you can't use the galley equipment because it is not designed by anyone who actually has to use it.
Then we get ideas from people who have never worked as cabin crew!!! brilliant.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
agree with T-Bar
would be great customer service coming out of the dunny with the rinsed coffee plunger in view of the punters, especially in p/c. good one airsupport.
lets not forget all the glue that comes of wine bottles in the ice drawers. this is a factor on the 767 as well as the 400's with p/c.
lets not forget all the glue that comes of wine bottles in the ice drawers. this is a factor on the 767 as well as the 400's with p/c.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YBBN
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how about in-sink-erators! and cabin crew flushing the crap down to wherever its stored with a bit of water before it clogs the drains!
Prevention is better than fixing a problem which has developed!!
Prevention is better than fixing a problem which has developed!!
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PyroTek,Great idea except for..
They don't always work but why that is you would have to ask a engineer.I'm not sure if it is because of a poor design (cheap) or what.I have seen the same aircraft over a 10 day period with the same insinkerator not working.This maybe because the engineers are not given the spare parts or time to fix them but the reality is that then you are forced to get rid of the rubbish in another way which is not ideal and only helps the holes in the swiss cheese model to align.
The location of them is very poor as you have to lean over other areas that might cop whatever it is you are getting rid of. Again it might actually help to get the crew who work on the aircraft to help design the galleys and such.
The part I think is frustrating is the people whop expect cabin crew to do a fishes and loaves trick when they fly.
Give us the equipment and we can do the job but to blame someone when the procedures and equipment are wrong is the real fault and nothing more than pure laziness.
They don't always work but why that is you would have to ask a engineer.I'm not sure if it is because of a poor design (cheap) or what.I have seen the same aircraft over a 10 day period with the same insinkerator not working.This maybe because the engineers are not given the spare parts or time to fix them but the reality is that then you are forced to get rid of the rubbish in another way which is not ideal and only helps the holes in the swiss cheese model to align.
The location of them is very poor as you have to lean over other areas that might cop whatever it is you are getting rid of. Again it might actually help to get the crew who work on the aircraft to help design the galleys and such.
The part I think is frustrating is the people whop expect cabin crew to do a fishes and loaves trick when they fly.
Give us the equipment and we can do the job but to blame someone when the procedures and equipment are wrong is the real fault and nothing more than pure laziness.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up left - Down right
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RedTBar
You are correct. QF don't usually have serviceable spares available.
Broken spare parts removed from aircraft are often not repaired until we requisition a replacement,
then they will start working on it and it may appear a week later. This is done to save money???
- or so they think.
over a 10 day period with the same insinkerator not working
Broken spare parts removed from aircraft are often not repaired until we requisition a replacement,
then they will start working on it and it may appear a week later. This is done to save money???
- or so they think.
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Short_Circuit,
I think it must drive you guys crazy with frustration when you can't do something because of a lack of parts.
You can see it in the eyes of the engineers as they walk around with the log book and see what they can and can't do.
I think it must drive you guys crazy with frustration when you can't do something because of a lack of parts.
You can see it in the eyes of the engineers as they walk around with the log book and see what they can and can't do.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another suggestion from someone who has absolutely no idea of what it is like to work in the cabin.
There is ONLY one way to fix this problem that has been around for 40 years or more, that is for you Hosties to do as Engineers have been telling you all that time "DO NOT PUT COFFEE GROUNDS DOWN THE GALLEY DRAINS"
Which part of that don't you understand???
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hundreds of different cabin crew have told you the same thing over and over for decades and every single one of them is a liar,
OR maybe they're all telling you the same thing because it's true.
We are not putting coffee grounds down the drains!
Following all procedures and using all the equipment exactly as trained will still result in coffee grains and tea leaves in drains.
Beating up on cabin crew will not help. Listening to the people who are performing a task will help make the performance of that task safer.
Get the things which block the drains out of the service or get a better filter system for the drains or even better do both.
OR maybe they're all telling you the same thing because it's true.
We are not putting coffee grounds down the drains!
Following all procedures and using all the equipment exactly as trained will still result in coffee grains and tea leaves in drains.
Beating up on cabin crew will not help. Listening to the people who are performing a task will help make the performance of that task safer.
Get the things which block the drains out of the service or get a better filter system for the drains or even better do both.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YBBN
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i'm beginning to like the idea of mini strainers in sink holes...
we have one here, it's super effective! and not really a thing of engineering.. its a thing of 'when it gets full of crap from washing the dishes', you just lift it out and put the contents in a bin!
I was pretty amazed at the invention too, guys!
we have one here, it's super effective! and not really a thing of engineering.. its a thing of 'when it gets full of crap from washing the dishes', you just lift it out and put the contents in a bin!
I was pretty amazed at the invention too, guys!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A funny thing is History....Hmmm
85 years of passenger transport and catering.....Hmmm
Standing on the shoulders of our predecessors.....Hmmm
Constant evolution and refinement....Hmmmmmmmm
Same old problems.....Huh???????
What is left??????
Eureka!!!!!!
Redesign the galley drains for the way they are really used not how they are theoretically supposed to work.
When you buy a new aeroplane or upgrade the galleys......specify the drains to handle food waste!!!!!!
Oh and schedule more time for enzyme drain cleaning
85 years of passenger transport and catering.....Hmmm
Standing on the shoulders of our predecessors.....Hmmm
Constant evolution and refinement....Hmmmmmmmm
Same old problems.....Huh???????
What is left??????
Eureka!!!!!!
Redesign the galley drains for the way they are really used not how they are theoretically supposed to work.
When you buy a new aeroplane or upgrade the galleys......specify the drains to handle food waste!!!!!!
Oh and schedule more time for enzyme drain cleaning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no procedure in the cabin crew operations manual saying that all galley equipment must be switched off before leaving the aircraft. If I have missed it then give me the reference, otherwise you are just making another false assumption.
As far as the suggestion thing goes, if you did some research you might find that a crew member won a q innovations, or whatever it was called, award for suggesting disposable liners for the sinks at some time over the last decade.
The 'sinks' are not real sinks but shallow depressions about 30mm deep which have a wire strainer basket in them. The wire does not stop finer particles from getting through and there is no plug hole as such for the type of sink strainer you would find at home, instead there is a number of very small perforations which together would cover the size of a 10 cent piece at the bottom of this 3cm deep depression. If anyone were to pour the remaining contents of a 12 cup coffee plunger into this 'sink' it would fill the 'sink' immediately and render it unusable for the rest of the flight. This is why the idea that crew are putting/pouring coffee grounds down the sink is risible.
As far as the suggestion thing goes, if you did some research you might find that a crew member won a q innovations, or whatever it was called, award for suggesting disposable liners for the sinks at some time over the last decade.
The 'sinks' are not real sinks but shallow depressions about 30mm deep which have a wire strainer basket in them. The wire does not stop finer particles from getting through and there is no plug hole as such for the type of sink strainer you would find at home, instead there is a number of very small perforations which together would cover the size of a 10 cent piece at the bottom of this 3cm deep depression. If anyone were to pour the remaining contents of a 12 cup coffee plunger into this 'sink' it would fill the 'sink' immediately and render it unusable for the rest of the flight. This is why the idea that crew are putting/pouring coffee grounds down the sink is risible.
Last edited by obira; 3rd Feb 2008 at 05:59. Reason: added detail
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
airsupport,
The only one who doesn't understand the situation is apparently you!
Try and stay on the same page and realise that crew do not intentionally put coffee grounds down the sink.
If you are trying to help by coming up with nonsensical ideas like using the toilet then you should keep those ideas to yourself because you risk showing how little you know about the problem.
As with the others here that know what they are talking about the only solution is to get the equipment right in the first place.
The only one who doesn't understand the situation is apparently you!
Try and stay on the same page and realise that crew do not intentionally put coffee grounds down the sink.
If you are trying to help by coming up with nonsensical ideas like using the toilet then you should keep those ideas to yourself because you risk showing how little you know about the problem.
As with the others here that know what they are talking about the only solution is to get the equipment right in the first place.
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way the problem with the galley power ( thats assuming what you are talking about Stick'm up) is that if you have an oven switched on when you are taxing to the terminal and galley power is switched off from the flight deck it doesn't matter how many times you press the oven switch the oven will come on again when the flightdeck turns the power on again.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
airsupport,
The only one who doesn't understand the situation is apparently you!
Try and stay on the same page and realise that crew do not intentionally put coffee grounds down the sink.
If you are trying to help by coming up with nonsensical ideas like using the toilet then you should keep those ideas to yourself because you risk showing how little you know about the problem.
The only one who doesn't understand the situation is apparently you!
Try and stay on the same page and realise that crew do not intentionally put coffee grounds down the sink.
If you are trying to help by coming up with nonsensical ideas like using the toilet then you should keep those ideas to yourself because you risk showing how little you know about the problem.
These galley drains, be they on a Viscount, a DC9, a Boeing or an Airbus, are NOT a rubbish bin as you all seem to think. IF you use them as they are meant to be used, everything would be okay.
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
airsupport,
yeah your right mate, all crew hate the company and don't give a rats about safety or their own life and thats why we all keep throwing the coffee and anything else we can find down the sink.We actually go out of our way to find new things to stuff up in the hope that something big will happen.
Maybe you could talk the company into putting a toilet near each galley for us to clean the bodum's out but not for anyone to actually use as a toilet.
Your too good for us sherlock
yeah your right mate, all crew hate the company and don't give a rats about safety or their own life and thats why we all keep throwing the coffee and anything else we can find down the sink.We actually go out of our way to find new things to stuff up in the hope that something big will happen.
Maybe you could talk the company into putting a toilet near each galley for us to clean the bodum's out but not for anyone to actually use as a toilet.
Your too good for us sherlock
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to prevention
Yes we know you dont put coffee in the sink intensionally, and in most cases its not the problem, more the mixture of two different fluids being mixed i.e. orange juice and red wine or orange juice and milk when mixed together forms to sludge rapidly.
The galley sink drains have small lines so they don't take up to much room and run down the insides of the galley walls and save weight.
The same diameter lines have been used for years for a reason! Where the blockage 90% of the time occurs is around a valve which designed to regulate the air flow through lines due to the aircraft being pressurised, we do not want to loss to much air flow to atmosphere, it can also create flexible lines to clapse close on themselves and create higher noise levels in the cabin and extra fuel burn due to increased airflow/pressurisation losses.
There is maintenance being carried out various intervals where chemicals are put down the lines that eat away at the sludge, but due to high utilisation and poor inflight maintenance we are seeing blockages more than ever.
Engineering can not be relied on, the crew need to be educated.
Pouring the boiling water down the drains as regular as possible through flight will eliminate these problems for good.
On the ground is not as effective as inflight due to having no vacuum drawing the fluids and sludge through the lines.
The hosties these days fail to understand after their 6 week course that they are flying in mechanical machine thats doing 1000k an hour at 40,000ft, its something they need to work with and around to ensure good servicability. I think they forget about that and take it all for granted that is a miracle in itself.
Don't even get me started on the physic's of the dunny system blockages.
The galley sink drains have small lines so they don't take up to much room and run down the insides of the galley walls and save weight.
The same diameter lines have been used for years for a reason! Where the blockage 90% of the time occurs is around a valve which designed to regulate the air flow through lines due to the aircraft being pressurised, we do not want to loss to much air flow to atmosphere, it can also create flexible lines to clapse close on themselves and create higher noise levels in the cabin and extra fuel burn due to increased airflow/pressurisation losses.
There is maintenance being carried out various intervals where chemicals are put down the lines that eat away at the sludge, but due to high utilisation and poor inflight maintenance we are seeing blockages more than ever.
Engineering can not be relied on, the crew need to be educated.
Pouring the boiling water down the drains as regular as possible through flight will eliminate these problems for good.
On the ground is not as effective as inflight due to having no vacuum drawing the fluids and sludge through the lines.
The hosties these days fail to understand after their 6 week course that they are flying in mechanical machine thats doing 1000k an hour at 40,000ft, its something they need to work with and around to ensure good servicability. I think they forget about that and take it all for granted that is a miracle in itself.
Don't even get me started on the physic's of the dunny system blockages.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mavrik1 (btw how's goose?)
well said - fine particles ex the coffee bodums (hate that coffee anyway) and all the other liquids that congeal in the meandering bending narrow pipes all combine to create the issue. I always try to see things from the view of those doing the job and it seems to me (from my obs and speaking with cabin crew) that a lot of CC are quite concious of the problems and do flush with hot water typically during the cabin prep stage - some even use layers of chux as strainers and leave the grounds in the bodum.
That said I'm sure there are some that need educating - maybe the LAME's can send a few photos of what it takes to their CC news etc.,
The main thing is that if something is not 100% right then its a no brainer - we must fix it*. - it's an overt, not negotiable, concious decision: we're either the premium airline in service and safety or we are not. If any airline (or crew member) choses the latter, then frankly they don't deserve to be in the Australian skies.
(*slight diversion but this also applies to the Q carpark gates in MEL which (when I visted yesterday) I was told are still U.S three weeks after the failure and are still being manned by a contract security company - cue the cost cutting bean counters)
well said - fine particles ex the coffee bodums (hate that coffee anyway) and all the other liquids that congeal in the meandering bending narrow pipes all combine to create the issue. I always try to see things from the view of those doing the job and it seems to me (from my obs and speaking with cabin crew) that a lot of CC are quite concious of the problems and do flush with hot water typically during the cabin prep stage - some even use layers of chux as strainers and leave the grounds in the bodum.
That said I'm sure there are some that need educating - maybe the LAME's can send a few photos of what it takes to their CC news etc.,
The main thing is that if something is not 100% right then its a no brainer - we must fix it*. - it's an overt, not negotiable, concious decision: we're either the premium airline in service and safety or we are not. If any airline (or crew member) choses the latter, then frankly they don't deserve to be in the Australian skies.
(*slight diversion but this also applies to the Q carpark gates in MEL which (when I visted yesterday) I was told are still U.S three weeks after the failure and are still being manned by a contract security company - cue the cost cutting bean counters)
Last edited by airtags; 3rd Feb 2008 at 08:51. Reason: if you're responding then at least spell their name correctly - sorry
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am the one who originally brought up the problems about coffee and the drains. Why? because as the boss I heard consistent complaints from the E/Os about the coffee. I also spoke to duty engineers in SYD about the problem in both the eighties and the nineties, and I have PERSONALLY seen C/C doing it in front of my eyes whilst on walkabout around the cabin, (you could in those days) To me it was pure laziness, as a bag was provided to which you could tip the drained dregs into. Just about every tech log written out had at least one item about coffee dregs. And they still don't get it!! Or they still don't care. Crap that the bag will overflow DRAIN them first then they won't. Even I, who is useless in the kitchen, has worked that out.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crap, bull**** and rubbish................
QF only moved to loose grounds 2 or maybe 3 years ago.
Up until that point the only issue with blocked drains from a Flight Attendant's point of view was curdled milk.
We were instructed not to empty milk into the sinks together with other liquids [wine, OJ etc] as doing so creates a curdled mess/blockage.
You are sir, full of it.
Oh BTW, a perusal of the main pprune thread on this issue will show many informative posts from one of our current engineers [NSEU?].
He states that investigations into the BKK incident show that coffee grinds had NOTHING to do with the blockage.
QF only moved to loose grounds 2 or maybe 3 years ago.
Up until that point the only issue with blocked drains from a Flight Attendant's point of view was curdled milk.
We were instructed not to empty milk into the sinks together with other liquids [wine, OJ etc] as doing so creates a curdled mess/blockage.
You are sir, full of it.
Oh BTW, a perusal of the main pprune thread on this issue will show many informative posts from one of our current engineers [NSEU?].
He states that investigations into the BKK incident show that coffee grinds had NOTHING to do with the blockage.