Cyclone Helen
So ACMS, you give up flying when the wind gets above light and variable?
So are Qantas pilots regarded as cowboys when they fly into YMML on a hot Northerly day and it is gusting 50 kts? Likewise places such as Hobart, Adelaide or Perth on windy days. I reckon the Qantas and Scarenorth boys probably had a fair few options if they had to divert due WX.
Some of the newer "ace" Virgin captains don't seem to have had much experience in bad weather,or exposure to it, you only had to see the way some of them carried on in the crappy weather Christmas week on the East coast.
Perhaps you could spend a day with King Island Airlines and go down to windy on King Island when its gusting up to 70 kts in a Chieftain.
So are Qantas pilots regarded as cowboys when they fly into YMML on a hot Northerly day and it is gusting 50 kts? Likewise places such as Hobart, Adelaide or Perth on windy days. I reckon the Qantas and Scarenorth boys probably had a fair few options if they had to divert due WX.
Some of the newer "ace" Virgin captains don't seem to have had much experience in bad weather,or exposure to it, you only had to see the way some of them carried on in the crappy weather Christmas week on the East coast.
Perhaps you could spend a day with King Island Airlines and go down to windy on King Island when its gusting up to 70 kts in a Chieftain.
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Moniker,
Definitely not. All Jetstar passengers (ADL-DRW, MEL-DRW & BNE-DRW flights were all cancelled) were re-accomodated on other flights the next day or evening at the latest for no extra cost and in many cases on Qantas services. In addition to the scheduled service a second, ad-hoc MEL-DRW Jetstar flight was also dispatched on Saturday evening.
Those passengers who did not live at the port of origin were accomodated overnight.
All of the passengers were polite, friendly and were happy to be safe and dry in another part of the country.
With regard to Jetstar, always best to believe about 5% of the rumours.
Definitely not. All Jetstar passengers (ADL-DRW, MEL-DRW & BNE-DRW flights were all cancelled) were re-accomodated on other flights the next day or evening at the latest for no extra cost and in many cases on Qantas services. In addition to the scheduled service a second, ad-hoc MEL-DRW Jetstar flight was also dispatched on Saturday evening.
Those passengers who did not live at the port of origin were accomodated overnight.
All of the passengers were polite, friendly and were happy to be safe and dry in another part of the country.
With regard to Jetstar, always best to believe about 5% of the rumours.
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Originally Posted by RAAFASA
Thanks CoodaShooda,
Went through the big "Ingrid" build up a couple of years ago, similar result. Hope you stay safe and dry.
Went through the big "Ingrid" build up a couple of years ago, similar result. Hope you stay safe and dry.
CL
Stationair: been to King in a Chieftain and a Fokker many times in winds soo strong they would blow the F27 props around.
However that's not the issue.
Darwin is not setup for strong winds, crap all over the tarmac will get blown around and I have seen many times aircraft ( 727's DC-9's ) damaged by ground equipment. Indeed in Mel about 20 years ago An and Tn 727's were moved around the tarmac by strong winds. A Tn 727 actually jumped the chocks and trundled quite a way down the taxyway under it's own control !!
In PER a Tn 727 had it's airstairs badly damaged by a baggage trolly that blew around the corner from An.
King has a lot of strong winds and are quite setup for it. Most crap is nailed down !!
Anyway, good to see it was a non-event.
p.s. the Airmanship of the QF crew was never in doubt, i know they wouldn't have landed in DN if the wx was not suitable.
The issue as i see it is: QF ( ops ) were cowboys for sending the Aircraft there to sit on the ground for 8 hours with a Cyclone approaching.
cheers
ACMS
However that's not the issue.
Darwin is not setup for strong winds, crap all over the tarmac will get blown around and I have seen many times aircraft ( 727's DC-9's ) damaged by ground equipment. Indeed in Mel about 20 years ago An and Tn 727's were moved around the tarmac by strong winds. A Tn 727 actually jumped the chocks and trundled quite a way down the taxyway under it's own control !!
In PER a Tn 727 had it's airstairs badly damaged by a baggage trolly that blew around the corner from An.
King has a lot of strong winds and are quite setup for it. Most crap is nailed down !!
Anyway, good to see it was a non-event.
p.s. the Airmanship of the QF crew was never in doubt, i know they wouldn't have landed in DN if the wx was not suitable.
The issue as i see it is: QF ( ops ) were cowboys for sending the Aircraft there to sit on the ground for 8 hours with a Cyclone approaching.
cheers
ACMS
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MUNT,
I know of at least one VB flight that was cancelled at the time, I was supposed to be on it. I tried to get put on another carrier, but all were cancelling flights the night the cyclone was due to pass through.
I know of at least one VB flight that was cancelled at the time, I was supposed to be on it. I tried to get put on another carrier, but all were cancelling flights the night the cyclone was due to pass through.
In my first year of commercial flying I met a guy who flew for Connellan Airways, and he told me about trying to get back into Darwin on Christmas Eve 1974. He did a couple of ILS's in the Heron and when he got visual each time the x-wind was to great to attempt a landing so he diverted to the old Katherine aerodrome and sat it out overnight. He reckons that engineer(complete with a carton of grog) on the ground got a tug onto the other Heron and kept it into wind during the cyclone, must have been a brave lad. The Heron and engineer both survived and the Heron's HF radio was about the only means of communication out of Darwin.
This guy also said that they operated the DC-3 single pilot, and they used anyone with a pilot's licence as radio operators in the weeks after the cyclone to get things moving.
Imagine CASA letting that happen today! Are yes we will need at least a months notice and the fee will be these many dollars!!
This guy also said that they operated the DC-3 single pilot, and they used anyone with a pilot's licence as radio operators in the weeks after the cyclone to get things moving.
Imagine CASA letting that happen today! Are yes we will need at least a months notice and the fee will be these many dollars!!
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Darwin airport has improved over the years, and cyclone preparation plans are reviewed and upgraded from experience's gained world wide. I notice that all equipment, ie containers etc are stored off the tarmac together with GS equipment. The location is down by bay 10, well away from the main tarmac. There are now new tarmac procedures when active TS are within 5 km of the airport.
The DN TAF was no worse than similar TAF's for King Is in Bass Strait in winter. Suitable alternates were available, and my understanding was that the 767 would have returned, but the refuelling services had closed down.
There needs to be a bit more co-ordination between the government services, because they pulled the buses and taxi's off the road whilst there were two inbound flights.
The DN TAF was no worse than similar TAF's for King Is in Bass Strait in winter. Suitable alternates were available, and my understanding was that the 767 would have returned, but the refuelling services had closed down.
There needs to be a bit more co-ordination between the government services, because they pulled the buses and taxi's off the road whilst there were two inbound flights.
As soon as a cyclone is named people change their attitude completely, almost like panic sets in.
Although a "cyclone" must be treated with extreme caution as they can change in intensity reasonably quickly. The forecast for the evening was not that bad.
The cyclone, had crossed the coast south of Darwin and therefore was extremely unlikely to increase in intensity, the wind was forecast to GUST to 65 kts. Keep in mind that the standard forecast for Darwin is gusts 45kts in TS's.
Tindal 154 nm down the track was OK as was Gove as an alternate.
The main danger for aircraft was always going to be flying debris.
I don't see flying debris as a major concern at Darwin airport. There are very few if any trees, the ground equipment is secured and not an issue, not with gusts of 65 kts. Its not "Tracy" where fridges etc were being blown around doing major damage, we are talking about some trees being up-rooted and branches coming off. That’s how the BOM describe a cat 1 or 2 cyclone, damage to trees and minor damage to infrastructure.
Although a lot of trees did come down and that caused some damage to infrastructure, the wind itself didn't cause any damage to buildings as far as i am aware.
The wind was pretty much up and down the runway centerline. Wind shear???, taxiing??? Apart from that I see it as reasonable.
From the BOM website http://www.bom.gov.au/weather/cyclon...cyclones.shtml
Although a "cyclone" must be treated with extreme caution as they can change in intensity reasonably quickly. The forecast for the evening was not that bad.
DARWIN (YPDN)
TAF AMD YPDN 040956Z 041212
33035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM18 27035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM00 24020G50KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT008 BKN030
FM06 24015G30KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT010 BKN030
TEMPO 1212 VRB25G65KT 1000 THUNDERSTORMS WITH RAIN BKN007 SCT015CB
RMK
T 25 24 23 24 Q 995 994 991 993
TAF AMD YPDN 040956Z 041212
33035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM18 27035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM00 24020G50KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT008 BKN030
FM06 24015G30KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT010 BKN030
TEMPO 1212 VRB25G65KT 1000 THUNDERSTORMS WITH RAIN BKN007 SCT015CB
RMK
T 25 24 23 24 Q 995 994 991 993
The cyclone, had crossed the coast south of Darwin and therefore was extremely unlikely to increase in intensity, the wind was forecast to GUST to 65 kts. Keep in mind that the standard forecast for Darwin is gusts 45kts in TS's.
Tindal 154 nm down the track was OK as was Gove as an alternate.
The main danger for aircraft was always going to be flying debris.
I don't see flying debris as a major concern at Darwin airport. There are very few if any trees, the ground equipment is secured and not an issue, not with gusts of 65 kts. Its not "Tracy" where fridges etc were being blown around doing major damage, we are talking about some trees being up-rooted and branches coming off. That’s how the BOM describe a cat 1 or 2 cyclone, damage to trees and minor damage to infrastructure.
Although a lot of trees did come down and that caused some damage to infrastructure, the wind itself didn't cause any damage to buildings as far as i am aware.
The wind was pretty much up and down the runway centerline. Wind shear???, taxiing??? Apart from that I see it as reasonable.
From the BOM website http://www.bom.gov.au/weather/cyclon...cyclones.shtml
Cat 1 Tropical Cyclone Less than 125 km/h
Gales Minimal house damage. Damage to some crops, trees and caravans. Boats may drag moorings.
Cat 2 Tropical Cyclone 125 - 164 km/h
Destructive winds Minor house damage. Significant damage to signs, trees and caravans. Heavy damage to some crops. Risk of power failure. Small boats may break moorings.
Gales Minimal house damage. Damage to some crops, trees and caravans. Boats may drag moorings.
Cat 2 Tropical Cyclone 125 - 164 km/h
Destructive winds Minor house damage. Significant damage to signs, trees and caravans. Heavy damage to some crops. Risk of power failure. Small boats may break moorings.
Last edited by RENURPP; 7th Jan 2008 at 22:50.
