New bill to end the AWA's

[spider331]

AWAs

Workchoices was a great principle if the world is perfect. Unfortunately it is also full of people willing to exploit others for their own greed.

Maxter - Never a truer set of words spoken in my book.

From many sources both inside an outside of aviation circles, I've lost count of the number of times I have heard that employers have used the work choices to divide and conquer staff or drive down conditions. Some of the examples are pure ridiculous (cant work for another gym within 250km!, sign this AWA quickly and you will get a cash sweetener, if you dont sign the AWA - no command etc. etc..)

Lets face it, If you wanted the job, you had to sign the AWA or.... catch you later. That's all there is (was) too it. All this talk of negotiating an individual contract with a new employee. It might apply to key positions, but for the mainstream I havent heard of anyone starting a new job in aviation and being able to bargain their own conditions in an interview!

I, for one, am glad that the country voted for a change.

[019360]

I was offered an AWA once in a letter signed by the then Labor PM Hawke. Letter slid under my door at some horrible hour. If you looked at it hard I would have made buckets of money. But it did involve having to leave my union and cross a picket line. So didn't even think about it.
However the ACTU and all members of the Labor government fully supported this. Makes you wonder about the word "Hypocrisy" doesn't it?
Safe flying

[lowerlobe]

PAF is a military driver isn't he?

If this is the case I doubt the miliary have AWA's.....then again perhaps he has left and is an accountant...He might have an AWA there....or maybe a PR guy for Howard.....yep definitely an AWA then...or was....

[maxter]

Air Ace I am not suggesting that there were not people willing to exploit pre workchoice, in fact I am saying the opposite. My point was that to reduce the bargaining power of those that already have none, as per workchoice, allows the exploiters even more free go at thievery. There are also some very good employers that offer well above award conditions in AWA's and they should be recognised. Mind you there was already the ability to offer above award conditions in the previous system and many employers chose to reward the good or loyal employees this way.

I would have no hesitation in myself negotiating an AWA. I have the experience and understanding of contracts for a start. My 19 year-old son is a different matter. They have already been exploited and the door was opened to enlarge on that, with workchoices. The debacle of the last minute panic to put in place a 'fairness commission' to oversee AWA's just highlights the fact. If it was so good why did the Liberal government rush that in just as an election was comming up.

P-A-F the reverse of your argument re employment can also be argued. I believe it is absolute drivel to claim all the 400,000 jobs, or what ever was the figure, was workchoice. 99.99% of new jobs created was the world-wide economic boom that is happening, feeding into our economy.

[ozbiggles]

To take Maxters point on seeing this thread in 3 years, for the record then

Current unemployment - 4.3%
Inflation - 1.9% in last 6 months (can't find the yearly on the ABS site, too tired)
Average weekely earning - up 5.2% for males, 4.8% for fembots (again, too late to figure out a $ value) over 2007.
Cost of Kyoto fines - 2007 = zero, 2008 - ? ask the kiwis how they are going!
Number of troops in Iraq - Too late, will edit tomorrow
Tax cuts - Got one every year for awhile now.
Budget surplus - Stand to be corrected but 10 out of 11?
Number of RPT airlines in oz (after all this is a Aviation site!).
How happy people are - Content, bored, try anything once.
Hospital waiting lists - Apparently not good, but thats why I pay for insurance.
Milk 1L $l.45- supermarket brand
Bread -
petrol - 129.0 here
Cash rate - 6.75%?

I hope for the best....

[max1]

I've stated this on another thread, but for PAF , Ozbiggles and co. Time to climb out of the armchair and put your money where your mouth is. If you see Australia going down the gurgler in the next three years, you can still make a killing on the markets in futures contracts.
Ozbiggles you've started the 'time capsule' with todays stats, howabout letting us know what stocks you are going long and short on over the next 1-2-3 years and we can track your crystal ball. PAF, sorry mate no motherhood statements . You rant on about your economic understanding, Whats down in the future. Take a position, and let us know.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

With regards to the young girl and the "not to work at a gym within 250km's" AWA.

When she ceased employment with the previous organisation, the AWA became void, i.e there is no longer a legally binding contract between the employee and previous employer.

Therefore, Mr and Mrs previous employer can kiss my well informed a55, is the appropriate response.

[dodgybrothers]

if thats the case then, bonds become null and void when and employee leaves the fold? Unfortunately these intstruments are common law contracts and are binding for the period of the contract.

Just like if the employee leaves and the AWA has a bond included in it, the contract is binding. Insidious things especially now the employers are going for longer terms until julia stops them early next year.

[Torres]

A bond is deferred payment for goods or services provided by an employer to an employee, at the employee's request and on termination of employment would become a civil debt.

The future employment restriction - not to work for another gym within 250 kms - is a restrictive employment practice and would not be approved in an AWA by the OEA.

What Left Handed Rock Thrower said........

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Dodgybrothers,

The Bond is a whole other can of worms.

Generally the Bond and the AWA are seperate contracts, i.e the AWA and an offer letter, the AWA covers the conditions of employment, the offer letter covers the muscle for bonding.

That said, a bond really is a hand shake arrangement between two parties.

The bond issue has hit the courts twice that i'm aware of, please gents correct me if i am misinformed, from what i understand both were with Cobham/NJS/SA,

1) Pilot ( Mclellan? - SA Dash 8 ), won the case on an appeal,
2) Pilot ( not sure - ? ), won the case outright.

I believe it was deemed in these cases that it is illegal to bond to a job etc etc, the links to these case were on pprune some time ago, frankly i could not be bothered finding them.

Do not know what legislation has changed since these cases.

Irrespective of the "whole bond issue", it is easy to get a bad bad name by not honouring a bond, very hard to lose that bad name.

[Capt Kremin]

Now that the 787 is delayed till after AWA's will be made unlawful, does anyone have any idea how Jetstar are going to crew their 787's?

[ozbiggles]

Max, if i knew how to play the stockmarket I wouldn't have time for PPRUNE I'd be off on my latest trip!
I'm actually hopeful for the future, I just don't believe there is to much wrong at the moment. I actually do believe that most people have never been better off!
I find it interesting when people complain they can't afford thier Foxtel, mobile phone bills, playstation 3, laptop, ipod, digital video camera, phone bill, 22 foot plasma screen and home loan oh and then there is their 8 credit card bills....
IF the new PM can run his agenda then we should all be OK. But he can't be a one man team and there isn't much behind him. As I write this the news is saying how Garret has been gagged from talking about climate change!
Also the debacle that is the Libs in QLD to be balanced!
But onto the topic of AWAs the best suggestion I've heard is to allow people over x dollars to be allowed to negotiate a AWA. Its just that pilots have already dug ourselves a hole its going to be very hard to ever get out of

[Gateway Customer]

Im sitting on top of a AWA that my future employer wants me to sign ASAP

What can be done now after the election is over to enable myself to get the right deal.

Is there a cut off date when AWA's will be invalid?
Who would be the best people to call and get the right current advise?

Any help, suggestions would be appreciated

GC

[lowerlobe]

Having an employer want you to sign an AWA is a bit like your employer telling you that they have a new superannuation plan mark XII for you.

When you ask what was the matter with the old super scheme they tell that the new one is a lot better but the reality is that it is better for the employer.

If the employer is in a hurry for you to sign it get legal advice as Coral said....No one in their right mind would sign any contract without legal advice...

[Torres]

Faye's Mate from the Gateway. They can't "want" you to sign it.

Either:

1. You are an existing employee and signing the AWA is at your sole discretion; or

2. You are a new employee in which case you have no option, either sign or no job.

If an existing employee, your employer should tell you the option to an AWA, which will probably be the Award. It should be a simple task for you to assess which industrial framework best suits you.

Regardless of all the ill informed commentary, AWAs are generally more rewarding and beneficial to the employee, than the outdated traditional Award structure.

If you need advice, contact the Workplace Authority.

[lowerlobe]

Regardless of all the ill informed commentary, AWAs are generally more rewarding and beneficial to the employee,

.....That's why so many AWA's are failing the fairness test that Howard brought in to appease the critics.....

That's why employers like them so much because they are better for the employee.....

[Jet_A_Knight]

Ridiculous restraint periods and ridiculous restraint areas are really beneficial to the employee too, aren't they.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Dodgybrothers, it's a slow Saturday, here are those Bond cases:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si...C/2005/46.html

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si.../2007/957.html