Air Crash Investigation TV next week. Boeing 737 NDB approach goes wrong.
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Air Crash Investigation TV next week. Boeing 737 NDB approach goes wrong.
TV Channel 7 (Victoria) is showing another Air Crash Investigation story on Wednesday 5th December. In view of the significant increase in pilots undergoing 737 endorsements in Australia, this TV story may be worth watching as it covers the crash of a USAF Boeing 737-200 near Cilipi airport Dubrovnik in 1996.
From my recollection - and checking on Google - the cause of the accident was pilot error in that the Twin NDB approach was incorrectly flown and at high speed. That the aircraft was equipped with only one ADF was of no help to the crew. The aircraft tracked nine degrees away the published inbound track and hit terrain near the missed approach point. The instrument approach chart was found to be poorly designed.
Providing the TV producer avoids too much of the wailing widow coverage, the investigation story has lessons for todays glass cockpit pilots in terms of keeping up basic instrument flying skills.
From my recollection - and checking on Google - the cause of the accident was pilot error in that the Twin NDB approach was incorrectly flown and at high speed. That the aircraft was equipped with only one ADF was of no help to the crew. The aircraft tracked nine degrees away the published inbound track and hit terrain near the missed approach point. The instrument approach chart was found to be poorly designed.
Providing the TV producer avoids too much of the wailing widow coverage, the investigation story has lessons for todays glass cockpit pilots in terms of keeping up basic instrument flying skills.
you're that bloke who walked past the line of people waiting to see 'Titanic' yelling out "it sinks!" aren't you?
This episode is a little corny with all the pen flicking right out of the Bond movie Goldeneye.
This episode is a little corny with all the pen flicking right out of the Bond movie Goldeneye.
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you're that bloke who walked past the line of people waiting to see 'Titanic' yelling out "it sinks!" aren't you
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Hey Centaurus, do you mean even the highly sophisticated multi-million dollar jet RPT aircraft in this day and age still have hand fly NDB appraoches down to the minima ?
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Virgin Blue checkies I understand have been known to fail both CDU's during command training for NDB approach in the simulator. Obviously it is felt that raw data competency is still required.
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It was shown here in Da Old Country a few months ago. Standard Air Crash Investigation stuff, reasonably well told, not too much 'wailing-widow' material.
The Seconds to Disaster about the early Comet crashes is well worth a look. Ground-breaking stuff in that investigation.
The Seconds to Disaster about the early Comet crashes is well worth a look. Ground-breaking stuff in that investigation.
Question?
At present Melbourne ILS16 is out of action. Has been for months, I think it comes back online soonish. There is no other approach for 16 other than the NDB and as such when the conditions require the NDB is the only way to conduct an approach.
So... if the aircraft is not fitted with any ADF's (VB 777), what's the plan?
On another note, why is there no RNAV for 16?
I have enjoyed some of the Internationals responses lately after being cleared for the NDB....
So... if the aircraft is not fitted with any ADF's (VB 777), what's the plan?
On another note, why is there no RNAV for 16?
I have enjoyed some of the Internationals responses lately after being cleared for the NDB....
If you are not equipped with an ADF (just like the QF A333) then you could:
1. Make a visual approach, or
2. Use one of the other runway approaches and circle to land .....aaarrrgghhh!
1. Make a visual approach, or
2. Use one of the other runway approaches and circle to land .....aaarrrgghhh!
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2. Use one of the other runway approaches and circle to land .....aaarrrgghhh!
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These days with LNAV/VNAV and GPS updating - NDB approaches per se should be a non-issue. At least in the 737-800 they are. Unfortunately, if airlines wont update their equipment with GPS's and modern FMCs capable of RNAV/RNP alerting etc then these basic approaches are pretty dangerous.
An NDB approach is fairly simple itself - however the errors the equipment are prone to make this quite dangerous. No modern aeroplane should be flying close to the ground relying on 1930's navigation technology. There is simply no need for it. (The only reason we have to is because airports and companys wont pay for the safer equipment or have the approaches charted based on different nav aids).
Safety as always comes down to the almighty dollar. Affordable safety isnt it?
An NDB approach is fairly simple itself - however the errors the equipment are prone to make this quite dangerous. No modern aeroplane should be flying close to the ground relying on 1930's navigation technology. There is simply no need for it. (The only reason we have to is because airports and companys wont pay for the safer equipment or have the approaches charted based on different nav aids).
Safety as always comes down to the almighty dollar. Affordable safety isnt it?
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Those Air Safety Investigation shows would be much, much better if they didn't keep rehashing the 'story so far' at the beginning of each and every segment following the 9 or so ads that have just been endured....for me that really....really spoils the show!
It makes the 35 minutes or so of actual program for the hour long show significantly less, but I guess that's why they do it!
Cheers...FD
It makes the 35 minutes or so of actual program for the hour long show significantly less, but I guess that's why they do it!
Cheers...FD
1. Why would someone conduct a twin locator approach with only one ADF?
2. Why would V Australia not have ADF's in their aircraft? All other 777 operators have them, so if you end up non radar and procedural you have all the gear the Jepps tell you to have.
3. RWY16 in Melbourne is being upgraded to CAT II so l guess it will make some the equipment redundant.
halas
2. Why would V Australia not have ADF's in their aircraft? All other 777 operators have them, so if you end up non radar and procedural you have all the gear the Jepps tell you to have.
3. RWY16 in Melbourne is being upgraded to CAT II so l guess it will make some the equipment redundant.
halas
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Flight Detent...I could not agree with you more!! My last post was well over 6 months ago. When I read yours I couldnt help but post. The re-hashing drives me nuts...it is almost an insult to any person with half a brain, that you have to keep being told what you've just seen again and again! Amen to you...maybe we should start a petition... 
short flights long nights
I think you will find if you fail both CDUs in any 777 you will have no ADF, there is no other way to see the needles!!!...waiting to be corrected!!