REx Management – “OUTthere” or “OUT of there”
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I reckon HJ clean bowled aircraft 
it's all about self interest from a managerial perspective... if you have a look at the annual report by industry standards the board isn't paid all that much... even with all their options cashed in the package merely average... what incentives does REX management have to rectify the current problems?? none
whilst they probably aren't dumb deaf and blind it's a classical example of agency theory
it's all about self interest from a managerial perspective... if you have a look at the annual report by industry standards the board isn't paid all that much... even with all their options cashed in the package merely average... what incentives does REX management have to rectify the current problems?? none
whilst they probably aren't dumb deaf and blind it's a classical example of agency theory
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Hugh Jarse said:
In making my posts to these REX threads I have been trying to make others aware of when their ideas and suggestions are unrealistic. Unfortunately, most of what is posted is unrealistic.
You would have to be naive to think the management aren't approaching the issues in that manner.
No, I am not a manager and have never been one. I am a GA pilot. I have no association with REX.
There are no realistic solutions to offer. You will find that Dick Smith is also unable to offer any solutions. You will not see "DicK Smith Airlines" anytime soon - he is too smart for that.
I would identify those pilots that "would like to remain with REX but are finding it increasingly difficult to do so". With those individuals I would begin regular discussions. The principal purpose of the discussions would be to:
Although the current profits are very good, getting a share of them would require approval of the board (and most probably, the shareholders) but I doubt the shareholders would approve.
The REX route structure is such that there is significant competition from the other modes of transport (e.g train, bus, car). This level of competition makes for a much greater "price elasticity" than could be expected for most other air routes in Australia. This in turn means the demand for air carriage over these routes is highly sensitive to changes in the price of the ticket. It is for this reason that small increases to the ticket price (for the purpose of funding increased pilot terms and conditions) would quite likely have a counterproductive result.
The commercial aviation industry is not what it used to be. Throughout its entire existence there has been an unmistakable and relentless trend towards safer carriage and cheaper fares. For the first few decades, the technological improvements to aircraft and engines alone were enough to keep the fares coming down, but these days, those improvements aren't enough to keep the fares coming down at the desired rate so staff remuneration has had to be cut to the bone.
Considering this trend and the future demand for pilots from countries such as China and India, it is quite easy to see what is just around the corner:
Pilotless passenger aircraft.
I note that all your responses are of a "can't do" nature and why the suggestions won't work.
Modern management should have a "how can we make this work with what we've got" attitude. Are you a modern manager?
No, I am not a manager and have never been one. I am a GA pilot. I have no association with REX.
You have offered no solutions to the current crisis at this stage.
If you were in a position of influence within REX management, what plans would you put in place to retain an increasingly shrinking commodity ...
1. Gently persuade them that their chosen industry just cannot afford satisfactory terms and conditions anymore. This persuasion would make mention of the fact that it is only a matter of time before the terms and conditions offered by operators such as Jetstar, Qantas and VB will find their way down to the same level as those of REX. It may be necessary to "open the books" and delve into the financial details to make this case.
2. Obtain their ideas as to what arrangements can be reached (between them and the company) that will make their lives easier. These ideas may vary greatly, depending on personal circumstances, but once obtained, faithfully seek ways of achieving, then implementing those arrangements. If a particular arrangement cannot be achieved, honestly and openly advise them of this and the reasons why.
Large increases to terms and conditions are just not possible for operators such as REX, who, outside the current booming economic conditions, just do not bring in sufficient revenue. Although the current profits are very good, getting a share of them would require approval of the board (and most probably, the shareholders) but I doubt the shareholders would approve.
The REX route structure is such that there is significant competition from the other modes of transport (e.g train, bus, car). This level of competition makes for a much greater "price elasticity" than could be expected for most other air routes in Australia. This in turn means the demand for air carriage over these routes is highly sensitive to changes in the price of the ticket. It is for this reason that small increases to the ticket price (for the purpose of funding increased pilot terms and conditions) would quite likely have a counterproductive result.
The commercial aviation industry is not what it used to be. Throughout its entire existence there has been an unmistakable and relentless trend towards safer carriage and cheaper fares. For the first few decades, the technological improvements to aircraft and engines alone were enough to keep the fares coming down, but these days, those improvements aren't enough to keep the fares coming down at the desired rate so staff remuneration has had to be cut to the bone.
Considering this trend and the future demand for pilots from countries such as China and India, it is quite easy to see what is just around the corner:
Pilotless passenger aircraft.
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There are no realistic solutions to offer
Considering this trend and the future demand for pilots from countries such as China and India, it is quite easy to see what is just around the corner:
Pilotless passenger aircraft.
Pilotless passenger aircraft.
Even worse, you really know nothing about this industry. To think a pilotless RPT aircraft is anything other that a European engineers wet dream is beyond the pale. If you are waiting industry to be saved by such a device, rather than pay pilots more money simply highlights just how delusional you actually are.
It takes a very unusual personality to repeatedly post in the face of almost unanimous criticism. Others offer solutions, but not you, because you don't have any. You are not a builder, but a destroyer. You add nothing but noise, and simply detract from any argument you choose to enter.
Leave the rest of us alone.
I can only wonder your motivations & mental state.
And you fly an aeroplanes? Just very small ones I hope.
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What I don't like about 'aircraft' is his ignorance... and the way he thinks he is always correct. (No questions asked)
He does not show appreciation to other peoples views and takes his own word for gospel.
Not a good trait for a pilot - I hope I never train you in a cockpit, aircraft... That's if you ever make it to multi-crew.
Lets hope not.
I suggest we just ignore him now
He does not show appreciation to other peoples views and takes his own word for gospel.
Not a good trait for a pilot - I hope I never train you in a cockpit, aircraft... That's if you ever make it to multi-crew.
Lets hope not.
I suggest we just ignore him now
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Thanks for your response, aircraft.
Which terms would consider realistic?
I'm not naive, aircraft. I don't like beating my own drum, but I've successfully run 3 businesses during my pre-aviation career. (Paid for my flying lessons!) Two of these were started up (greenfields, I believe is the buzzword) in a time of huge shortages of staff with skills in their particular area of expertise. When I think back about it there was a very common thread between the difficulties of staffing those businesses, and what the Regionals are experiencing today, only on a smaller scale. However, I'm yet to see any "can-do" from REX - yet. Other airlines and GA operators are taking steps in the right direction with significant pay rises and retention payments, and should be commended for at least taking some action, but money alone doesn't address a multi-faceted problem.
There are always realistic solutions, aircraft. (That's the difference between can and can't do managers). You just can't think of them at the moment 
I never thought I'd say this, but you don't know Dick Smith very well. One thing I will say of his leadership style at the time (from experience) was that if you had a problem and took it to him, the best way to get a hearing was to have the solution before you walked in his door. Not a bad thing really, because who has a better handle on the marketplace than your front-line staff?
Quite a few people on this thread have offered solutions in one way or another. Irrespective of the merit of such solutions it appears that they are falling on deaf ears.
I'll repeat my assertion that good management of people is as equally important as managing the books. One aspect of good people management is actively seeking input from your staff (see my reference to DSE above). This ain't happening.
Thanks for your response to my hypothetical: I won't go into great detail, but to summarise, you still haven't really offered any solutions, because the tone of your whole post is "can't do" and doesn't really address the people side of the equation. REX isn't alone in its inability or unwillingness to understand, engage and manage its workforce. This is a problem pervading the airline industry. The baton needs to be passed on to managers that possess these skills. I don't think I can be any clearer......
The key problem facing REX and other Regionals is addressing those people who love their job, hold some pride in their company (a lot of people at REX and other Regionals) and don't want to leave - but are!
The key? Ask them why, and THINK OUTSIDE THE SQUARE when formulating the solution
Gidday!
In making my posts to these REX threads I have been trying to make others aware of when their ideas and suggestions are unrealistic. Unfortunately, most of what is posted is unrealistic.
You would have to be naive to think the management aren't approaching the issues in that manner.
There are no realistic solutions to offer. You will find that Dick Smith is also unable to offer any solutions. You will not see "DicK Smith Airlines" anytime soon - he is too smart for that.
I never thought I'd say this, but you don't know Dick Smith very well. One thing I will say of his leadership style at the time (from experience) was that if you had a problem and took it to him, the best way to get a hearing was to have the solution before you walked in his door. Not a bad thing really, because who has a better handle on the marketplace than your front-line staff?Quite a few people on this thread have offered solutions in one way or another. Irrespective of the merit of such solutions it appears that they are falling on deaf ears.
I'll repeat my assertion that good management of people is as equally important as managing the books. One aspect of good people management is actively seeking input from your staff (see my reference to DSE above). This ain't happening.
Thanks for your response to my hypothetical: I won't go into great detail, but to summarise, you still haven't really offered any solutions, because the tone of your whole post is "can't do" and doesn't really address the people side of the equation. REX isn't alone in its inability or unwillingness to understand, engage and manage its workforce. This is a problem pervading the airline industry. The baton needs to be passed on to managers that possess these skills. I don't think I can be any clearer......
The key problem facing REX and other Regionals is addressing those people who love their job, hold some pride in their company (a lot of people at REX and other Regionals) and don't want to leave - but are!
The key? Ask them why, and THINK OUTSIDE THE SQUARE when formulating the solution
Gidday!
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Yesterday REX held their AGM with both the annual results and presentation now posted on the ASX website. Information provided includes a graph showing the pilot attrition rate for the last 3 years which has/is increasing at an impressive and seemingly unsustainable rate. REX management have been subjected to a lot of criticism in these threads but who are the REX management?
If you seriously research REX you will quickly establish that although it is a public company, it's major shareholder is the overseas based Executive Chairman who controls well in excess of 50 percent of the shares. There is a Board of Directors (now minus a Managing Director) comprising some executive and some non executive directors (who appear to be minor shareholders compared to the Executive Chairman) and that under the Board there is a team of full-time managers who work to run the business. According to ASX rules an Executive Chairman (who outranks a Managing Director) must act in the interests of the majority of shareholders. Catch 22!!
If you seriously research REX you will quickly establish that although it is a public company, it's major shareholder is the overseas based Executive Chairman who controls well in excess of 50 percent of the shares. There is a Board of Directors (now minus a Managing Director) comprising some executive and some non executive directors (who appear to be minor shareholders compared to the Executive Chairman) and that under the Board there is a team of full-time managers who work to run the business. According to ASX rules an Executive Chairman (who outranks a Managing Director) must act in the interests of the majority of shareholders. Catch 22!!
Last edited by THE ORACLE; 15th Nov 2007 at 21:49.
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In that case Ralph, maybe you could mention to his employer that he feels that pilot T and Cs in Australia at the moment are unsustainable and that eventually they will fall further (his own words), and therefore he must feel he is being overpaid and is volunteering for a pay cut!
Problem solved!
Problem solved!
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Here Here Mr. Jarse, Very succinct post outlining some of the problems with current management thinking. Now I won't get too vitrious but I personally think one of the main problems in Aviation is the lack of experienced aviation managers. These days we get the modern MBA types who flit from industry to industry and can achieve good short term results but don't have the long term experience to ensure profitable survival. Not too many old boy/girl pilots getting to explain the realities to boards any more. They cop the aircraft line of "it's just too complicated for you to understand".
Now I'm not too au fait with the REX situation and everyone I know who worked there left to fly jets. What I would be curious about would be the type of managers they have, because blind freddy should have seen this coming and there are ways to put solutions in place. Some things are monetary, some are lifestyle, some are staffing levels. If you don't do this what's the cost of having nothing? You can't run an airline without pilots so what's the point of having good bottom lines if you go under?
Now I'm not too au fait with the REX situation and everyone I know who worked there left to fly jets. What I would be curious about would be the type of managers they have, because blind freddy should have seen this coming and there are ways to put solutions in place. Some things are monetary, some are lifestyle, some are staffing levels. If you don't do this what's the cost of having nothing? You can't run an airline without pilots so what's the point of having good bottom lines if you go under?
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Aircraft.....Hugh Jarse has suggested that you are...
To which you basically answered....
You could have saved yourself a lot of work by just agreeing with him...
Imagine if all managers had your attitude..."sorry...won't work...can't do it....."
We would all be walking around with clubs and living in caves.This has nothing to do with being realistic it is all about your attitude.
Aircraft.....Not only are you on the wrong horse but you are riding the wrong way.
One day you will wake up and look around and wonder where everyone has gone.All you will hear is your own voice asking "Where is everybody"
I note that all your responses are of a "can't do" nature and why the suggestions won't work.
There are no realistic solutions to offer.
Imagine if all managers had your attitude..."sorry...won't work...can't do it....."
We would all be walking around with clubs and living in caves.This has nothing to do with being realistic it is all about your attitude.
Aircraft.....Not only are you on the wrong horse but you are riding the wrong way.
One day you will wake up and look around and wonder where everyone has gone.All you will hear is your own voice asking "Where is everybody"
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who is James Boag.. (or aircraft)
I think there has been more time spent on this topic trying to hoist aircraft on a pile of sticks and burn him (perhaps warranted) rather than on the original topic.
I suggest we start a new topic called "Who is aircraft?" and use that to marvel at the one man, jaw dropping logic show, that is "aircraft".
Too much focus on him for my liking, and sadly not just in this thread.
I suggest we start a new topic called "Who is aircraft?" and use that to marvel at the one man, jaw dropping logic show, that is "aircraft".
Too much focus on him for my liking, and sadly not just in this thread.
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if i was one of those pilots, and if rex would drop the fees for training, then i might well be, and you called me in the office and said this
i would quickly be leaving and looking for the nearest employment section in the herald.. (or Australian)
1. Gently persuade them that their chosen industry just cannot afford satisfactory terms and conditions anymore. This persuasion would make mention of the fact that it is only a matter of time before the terms and conditions offered by operators such as Jetstar, Qantas and VB will find their way down to the same level as those of REX. It may be necessary to "open the books" and delve into the financial details to make this case.
Last edited by Ultralights; 17th Nov 2007 at 22:09.
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aircraft :
Please don't stop, Please, Please, Please don't stop.
Hang on, just wait, wait almost shut down
almost there , in 10 seconds post !
Hang on I forgot to say " YOU IDIOT"
Please don't stop, Please, Please, Please don't stop.
Hang on, just wait, wait almost shut down
almost there , in 10 seconds post !
Hang on I forgot to say " YOU IDIOT"
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car competition
Some additional, worthy of note information to perhaps sustain the motion of this debate
November 16, 2007
COUNTRY airline Regional Express Holdings has lifted passenger numbers in the first quarter of fiscal 2008 and says higher fuel costs are helping it compete with car travel.
At its annual general meeting in Sydney yesterday, Rex stuck to its earnings guidance for this financial year, predicting net profit to rise by 10per cent in the 12 months.
In 2006-07, Rex reported annual net profit growth of 50.4 per cent to $23.6 million.
The airline also said first-quarter profit had risen by 5.6 per cent to $5.7million, up from last year's first-quarter result of $5.2 million.
Passenger numbers in the quarter rose 11.4 per cent to 383,611.
Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said as fuel prices increased, so did Rex's ability to compete with the car.
"Our competition in most of our destinations is not Qantaslink or the train, it is the motor car," Mr Sharp said.
"With the rising price of fuel, our ability to compete with the motor car has increased.
"This may be a surprise to many people but it is a fact that for most of our network, the car is our only competitor and rising fuel prices seem to have resulted in more people opting to use our services."
Mr Sharp said the average ticket price had been reduced to $118.50,
"which is a more than 20 per cent reduction over the last four years".
At the start of the month, Rex increased its fuel surcharge to $27 a sector, up from $24, as a result of rising fuel costs.
Rex posted fuel costs for the first quarter of this financial year of $10.8million, up 20.7 per cent on the previous corresponding quarter.
Rex this week announced that managing director Geoff Breust had resigned after four years at the helm.
Reference: the Australian
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-23349,00.html
November 16, 2007
COUNTRY airline Regional Express Holdings has lifted passenger numbers in the first quarter of fiscal 2008 and says higher fuel costs are helping it compete with car travel.
At its annual general meeting in Sydney yesterday, Rex stuck to its earnings guidance for this financial year, predicting net profit to rise by 10per cent in the 12 months.
In 2006-07, Rex reported annual net profit growth of 50.4 per cent to $23.6 million.
The airline also said first-quarter profit had risen by 5.6 per cent to $5.7million, up from last year's first-quarter result of $5.2 million.
Passenger numbers in the quarter rose 11.4 per cent to 383,611.
Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said as fuel prices increased, so did Rex's ability to compete with the car.
"Our competition in most of our destinations is not Qantaslink or the train, it is the motor car," Mr Sharp said.
"With the rising price of fuel, our ability to compete with the motor car has increased.
"This may be a surprise to many people but it is a fact that for most of our network, the car is our only competitor and rising fuel prices seem to have resulted in more people opting to use our services."
Mr Sharp said the average ticket price had been reduced to $118.50,
"which is a more than 20 per cent reduction over the last four years".
At the start of the month, Rex increased its fuel surcharge to $27 a sector, up from $24, as a result of rising fuel costs.
Rex posted fuel costs for the first quarter of this financial year of $10.8million, up 20.7 per cent on the previous corresponding quarter.
Rex this week announced that managing director Geoff Breust had resigned after four years at the helm.
Reference: the Australian
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-23349,00.html
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'AIRCRAFT' :
I used to work for the former Saab operator, so because I don't anymore, and because they don't exist, I won't beat you over the head too much regarding your idiotic, stupid, careless and IQ-equivalent of -100 capacity.
What I will say however is that you are a TOOL ! If the Aviation Industry in Australia was to listen to you, the situation would reach mayhem levels ; the industry would be cemented as doomed (at present, I believe it is recoverable) but more importantly, you'd have lots after you...
I hope that I can, one day, return to a BETTER Australia - I can only offer my best wishes to all 'genuine' people involved in the Ozzie Aviation Industry.. sorry 'Aircraft' (what an inappropriate name for a person who is willing to promote pilotless aircraft ?!) - this doesn't involve you.
Many of us DEFINITELY do NOT possess your low intelligence levels, or lack of real passion for this Industry, that you yourself are somehow involved in also. As Hugh Jarse, and others have said, this Industry is full of VERY capable, experienced (OUTSIDE of Aviation) people, WITH people/interpersonal communications skills and the ability to be 'CAN' people, rather than your meagre, lowlife attitude.
Wrongwayaround has put it perfectly - I hope nobody in here has the displeasure of training you, in any capacity. If so, boy, you better pull your head in and retrain that 'brain' of yours with more positive and aviation-relevant ideas...
It's true what they say - This Industry really does attract d***heads !
I used to work for the former Saab operator, so because I don't anymore, and because they don't exist, I won't beat you over the head too much regarding your idiotic, stupid, careless and IQ-equivalent of -100 capacity.
What I will say however is that you are a TOOL ! If the Aviation Industry in Australia was to listen to you, the situation would reach mayhem levels ; the industry would be cemented as doomed (at present, I believe it is recoverable) but more importantly, you'd have lots after you...
I hope that I can, one day, return to a BETTER Australia - I can only offer my best wishes to all 'genuine' people involved in the Ozzie Aviation Industry.. sorry 'Aircraft' (what an inappropriate name for a person who is willing to promote pilotless aircraft ?!) - this doesn't involve you.
Many of us DEFINITELY do NOT possess your low intelligence levels, or lack of real passion for this Industry, that you yourself are somehow involved in also. As Hugh Jarse, and others have said, this Industry is full of VERY capable, experienced (OUTSIDE of Aviation) people, WITH people/interpersonal communications skills and the ability to be 'CAN' people, rather than your meagre, lowlife attitude.
Wrongwayaround has put it perfectly - I hope nobody in here has the displeasure of training you, in any capacity. If so, boy, you better pull your head in and retrain that 'brain' of yours with more positive and aviation-relevant ideas...
It's true what they say - This Industry really does attract d***heads !
Last edited by Hottie; 17th Nov 2007 at 11:52.
Nunc est bibendum
lol. If you didn't think aircraft was a troll before his response to Hugh's questions then surely everyone must now be convinced after it!?!? I'm not sure why people keep giving oxygen to the thief though! 
