Merged: The Election - Aviation Policies
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Election 2007 (8?) - Aviation Policy
Might be time to start considering what the aviation policies from the major parties are going to be this coming election.
Former Minister for Incompetence John Anderson has come out in support of QANTAS not being sold today. The ALP hints at this as well.
Perhaps we need to find out the ALP policy sooner than later, because lets face it....
... each day that passes it's looking more and more like time to move out of the 1950's and say Bye Bye Johnny.
Former Minister for Incompetence John Anderson has come out in support of QANTAS not being sold today. The ALP hints at this as well.
Perhaps we need to find out the ALP policy sooner than later, because lets face it....
... each day that passes it's looking more and more like time to move out of the 1950's and say Bye Bye Johnny.
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to move out of the 1950's and say Bye Bye Johnny
At least we can look on the bright side, without a job we won't have to worry about work choices.
PS: Work choices won't be withdrawn regardless of who wins the election...
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Bloody Hell - they still have a cheer squad!
Wow - was the depression in the 1930's - you Libs sure have them booksmarts. I guess that is why you only choose intellectuals to preside over such important portfolios - like.... uhm, Alexander Downer starring in "The Foreign Minister"?
Hey Howard - jusr curious on your prediction - wanna bet? www.centrebet.com.au
Bye Bye Prime Minature - thanks for investing the resources boom wisely with your vote grabbing tax cut bribes - and bloating the public service to a size even fatter than Max Moore Wilton - or Max Moore Wiltons new 'mates' pay check.
But what is the policy for Aviation?
More WorkChoices so Howard Hughes kids can work for Jetstar India?
Or will the government be too busy involving themselves in influencing the chioce of the Democratic nomination for US President?
Perhaps you could roll out the old line again - "Who do you trust?"
But you might not like the answer when your Prime Minature has the 'courage' (there is a topical word) to call for a referendum on his fitness for continued duty.
Mission Failed. Goodbye.
Wow - was the depression in the 1930's - you Libs sure have them booksmarts. I guess that is why you only choose intellectuals to preside over such important portfolios - like.... uhm, Alexander Downer starring in "The Foreign Minister"?
Hey Howard - jusr curious on your prediction - wanna bet? www.centrebet.com.au
Bye Bye Prime Minature - thanks for investing the resources boom wisely with your vote grabbing tax cut bribes - and bloating the public service to a size even fatter than Max Moore Wilton - or Max Moore Wiltons new 'mates' pay check.
But what is the policy for Aviation?
More WorkChoices so Howard Hughes kids can work for Jetstar India?
Or will the government be too busy involving themselves in influencing the chioce of the Democratic nomination for US President?
Perhaps you could roll out the old line again - "Who do you trust?"
But you might not like the answer when your Prime Minature has the 'courage' (there is a topical word) to call for a referendum on his fitness for continued duty.
Mission Failed. Goodbye.
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 14th Feb 2007 at 04:07.
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Interesting how you interpreted my post ****su, don't know about a cheer squad, more coming from the "doomed which ever way it goes camp". But if I had to vote (which I don't), I would probably vote Liberal.
There is more to politics than just winning an election and quite frankly I don't know that 'the Dream Team' are up to it, time will tell and I would love to be proven wrong for the sake of all of us...
As to the original question of Aviation Policy, more of the same I expect regardless of who wins, including everybodys favourite private pilot trying to mess with our airspace!
There is more to politics than just winning an election and quite frankly I don't know that 'the Dream Team' are up to it, time will tell and I would love to be proven wrong for the sake of all of us...
As to the original question of Aviation Policy, more of the same I expect regardless of who wins, including everybodys favourite private pilot trying to mess with our airspace!
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I've got a bad feeling about this election.
It's really the devil or the deep blue sea.
Either way it will be a mistake to let the Qantas sale go through, this private equity thingy is just another name for the same old asset stripping, dodgy goings on without any scrutiny and massive fee mining going in and out and then selling the the debt laden carcass back to the long suffering shareholders that been going on forever. It gets worse the senior management get to share in the pillage. If that's not insider trading I dont know what it is. Neither political party seems to recognise that the Emperor is as usual stark staring naked.
By the time it all unfolds it wont be able to be unravelled. We seem to have given away any useful bilateral levers, you can be sure what is left will just die in the faces of so called free market forces.
Australians should hang their heads in shame that they not only have let it happen but have actively participated in it.
It's really the devil or the deep blue sea.
Either way it will be a mistake to let the Qantas sale go through, this private equity thingy is just another name for the same old asset stripping, dodgy goings on without any scrutiny and massive fee mining going in and out and then selling the the debt laden carcass back to the long suffering shareholders that been going on forever. It gets worse the senior management get to share in the pillage. If that's not insider trading I dont know what it is. Neither political party seems to recognise that the Emperor is as usual stark staring naked.
By the time it all unfolds it wont be able to be unravelled. We seem to have given away any useful bilateral levers, you can be sure what is left will just die in the faces of so called free market forces.
Australians should hang their heads in shame that they not only have let it happen but have actively participated in it.
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Don't worry about it, John Howard will win the next election (if only by a reduced margin) and Qantas will be sold. AND if Stuart Clark is not recalled to the World Cup squad, Australia will not get past the semi finals.
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We know who the Treasurer was when Interest Rates were last at 22% - Howard himself.
Funny they don't talk about that much when espousing their financial 'credentials'.
Lets face it - a glove puppet could have overseen a strong economy over the past few years.
In fact, one did.
Some of that money from the strong world economy could have been wisely used by keeping our airports as national assets - and protecting the sale of regional airports to be chopped up for residential estates.
It could have been used to make tertiary education affordable - one has to think that the Libs fear a well educated electorate, much like JBP.
It could have been used to provide to secure our energy future with a national roll out of solar energy initiatives at the household level, and water recycling at the household level.
It could have been used to retain a strong manufacturing industry within in Australia instead of a de facto off shore factory in China reliant on fossil fuels to ship us containers of cheap consumerables.
It could have built roads and railway lines between our major cities that are not a disgrace.
Nation building opportunites - instead of ideological baby-bonus-bribes that converted in to opium for the masses plasma TV's (from China once again).
Wasted opportunites - yet they ask who do we trust?
Strong leadership standing up to the likes of 'Australia's favourite pilot' as mentioned above? Surely they could have achieved that over 11 years? Apparently not.
There are no fresh ideas - It's time to go. Unfortunately, Labor are going to inherit an economy, and a society, poorly equipped for the challenges of the future.
Funny they don't talk about that much when espousing their financial 'credentials'.
Lets face it - a glove puppet could have overseen a strong economy over the past few years.
In fact, one did.
Some of that money from the strong world economy could have been wisely used by keeping our airports as national assets - and protecting the sale of regional airports to be chopped up for residential estates.
It could have been used to make tertiary education affordable - one has to think that the Libs fear a well educated electorate, much like JBP.
It could have been used to provide to secure our energy future with a national roll out of solar energy initiatives at the household level, and water recycling at the household level.
It could have been used to retain a strong manufacturing industry within in Australia instead of a de facto off shore factory in China reliant on fossil fuels to ship us containers of cheap consumerables.
It could have built roads and railway lines between our major cities that are not a disgrace.
Nation building opportunites - instead of ideological baby-bonus-bribes that converted in to opium for the masses plasma TV's (from China once again).
Wasted opportunites - yet they ask who do we trust?
Strong leadership standing up to the likes of 'Australia's favourite pilot' as mentioned above? Surely they could have achieved that over 11 years? Apparently not.
There are no fresh ideas - It's time to go. Unfortunately, Labor are going to inherit an economy, and a society, poorly equipped for the challenges of the future.
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There are no fresh ideas - It's time to go. Unfortunately, Labor are going to inherit an economy, and a society, poorly equipped for the challenges of the future.
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Howard Hughes not John
It does but it much more dangerous this time as there is no "lower class", well there is an "underdog" class, but even they seem to have plasma TVs now.
Nobody wants the gravy train to stop and no one is listening. Back to the future (1970 'twas) when house prices went beyond the fetch of even those on way better than the national average wages.
First home buyers fuel and sustain the real estate market appreciation cycle which is now totally out of control. Mum and Dad self funded super funds looking for cheaper investments have driven them out of that market, they will be the first to go under and become welfare recipients.
Rental vacancy rates are now under an unprecedented 2%
Nobody has any idea how to fix it, we simply dont have the physical or manufacturing resources (all gone to China) and it's going to be very very unpleasant. I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in Govt when it all comes unglued. Watch this space
It does but it much more dangerous this time as there is no "lower class", well there is an "underdog" class, but even they seem to have plasma TVs now.
Nobody wants the gravy train to stop and no one is listening. Back to the future (1970 'twas) when house prices went beyond the fetch of even those on way better than the national average wages.
First home buyers fuel and sustain the real estate market appreciation cycle which is now totally out of control. Mum and Dad self funded super funds looking for cheaper investments have driven them out of that market, they will be the first to go under and become welfare recipients.
Rental vacancy rates are now under an unprecedented 2%
Nobody has any idea how to fix it, we simply dont have the physical or manufacturing resources (all gone to China) and it's going to be very very unpleasant. I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in Govt when it all comes unglued. Watch this space
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HH,
I hope you are right, that the cycle will evolve this time.
For the sake of the 99% of us who are not in the MacBank mates network.
For the sake of those who still want to earn a reasonable salary with some job security in the Aviation sector - rather than see their jobs move off shore - once again solely for the sake of the privelged major shareholder clique who influence the policies of the Liberal Party.
The potential social and societal fallout that awaits us if policy is NOT shifted from personal portfolio building to NATION building, will see a breakdown literally on the streets - similar to that one can see in the poorer neglected areas of the US. This is not a legacy that 11 years of regime Howard can be proud of.
The pendulum must swing back from living for the economy to living in a society - there has been plenty of money to do this over the past 11 years, but it has been squandered.
The economic cycle will not favour the worlds coalmine for much longer - we will not have much to show for it when the cycle swings, as it always does.
At least the execs will be able to dismiss their AWA workers due to 'operational reasons' without paying out fair recompense. Why did we need Individual Contracts again? Why was it not in the election maninfesto? Productivity has dropped in the Australian workforce since Workchoices. The public hate it. Only those business council mates of Howard love it - after all, they are the ones that demanded it.
I hope you are right, that the cycle will evolve this time.
For the sake of the 99% of us who are not in the MacBank mates network.
For the sake of those who still want to earn a reasonable salary with some job security in the Aviation sector - rather than see their jobs move off shore - once again solely for the sake of the privelged major shareholder clique who influence the policies of the Liberal Party.
The potential social and societal fallout that awaits us if policy is NOT shifted from personal portfolio building to NATION building, will see a breakdown literally on the streets - similar to that one can see in the poorer neglected areas of the US. This is not a legacy that 11 years of regime Howard can be proud of.
The pendulum must swing back from living for the economy to living in a society - there has been plenty of money to do this over the past 11 years, but it has been squandered.
The economic cycle will not favour the worlds coalmine for much longer - we will not have much to show for it when the cycle swings, as it always does.
At least the execs will be able to dismiss their AWA workers due to 'operational reasons' without paying out fair recompense. Why did we need Individual Contracts again? Why was it not in the election maninfesto? Productivity has dropped in the Australian workforce since Workchoices. The public hate it. Only those business council mates of Howard love it - after all, they are the ones that demanded it.
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 14th Feb 2007 at 08:56.
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****su mate
I gotta feeling I know how Macbank will be remembered by our children and grandkids and who will be the first on the tumbrils.
I gotta feeling I know how Macbank will be remembered by our children and grandkids and who will be the first on the tumbrils.
Is this a Prophets of Doom Convention? 
I have far more faith in the Aussie voter - after all, it will be the voice of the people who decide our next Government. Well .... 15% of the voters anyhow!
I will accept the will of the people as being what they consider the best for Australia.
The Prime Minister has an uphill battle, however the Rudd honeymoon won't last forever. Actually, Rudd is probably the best chance Labour has had for decades. He seems dedicated to his concept of Australia.
My tip, a long way out from Election Day: A Conservative Government with reduced majority; increased Labour representation; reduced minority party presence; eventual loss of Conservative control in the Senate.
WorkChoises will remain (in one form or another) regardless of who wins the Election. The legislation will "mature" into the industrial relations environment Australia needs to remain competitive. It will eventually work to the benefit of both employees and employers.
The biggest risk to the Australian economy at present is any decline in world mineral or energy prices.
I don't agree with the sale of Qantas, however as I am not a Qantas share holder, my opinion doesn't count. The decision will be made by those who do own the company. As the Government sold off the company I am not sure they now have the right to intervene in it's proposed sale. Trust all Australians - they won't leave us without a national carrier, despite the perceived avarice and greed!
With that, I'll don my flack jacket, helmet and duck for cover!!!
I have far more faith in the Aussie voter - after all, it will be the voice of the people who decide our next Government. Well .... 15% of the voters anyhow!
I will accept the will of the people as being what they consider the best for Australia.
The Prime Minister has an uphill battle, however the Rudd honeymoon won't last forever. Actually, Rudd is probably the best chance Labour has had for decades. He seems dedicated to his concept of Australia.
My tip, a long way out from Election Day: A Conservative Government with reduced majority; increased Labour representation; reduced minority party presence; eventual loss of Conservative control in the Senate.
WorkChoises will remain (in one form or another) regardless of who wins the Election. The legislation will "mature" into the industrial relations environment Australia needs to remain competitive. It will eventually work to the benefit of both employees and employers.
The biggest risk to the Australian economy at present is any decline in world mineral or energy prices.
I don't agree with the sale of Qantas, however as I am not a Qantas share holder, my opinion doesn't count. The decision will be made by those who do own the company. As the Government sold off the company I am not sure they now have the right to intervene in it's proposed sale. Trust all Australians - they won't leave us without a national carrier, despite the perceived avarice and greed!
With that, I'll don my flack jacket, helmet and duck for cover!!!
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Thats right Applehere - but we were talking about 22% - and that was Howard. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember?
Keating set up the monetary framework for the economic conditions that Howard has sown. Even some of the Libs admit that.
I wasn't talking about the Prime Minatures physical stature, as you infer, but of his outlook - or should it be called inlook? Where is the regional foreign policy of engagement that Keating started? Binned. Instead we doff our hats to those old colonial dinosaurs... and look what that has done for our worldwide reputation. We have been reduced to an apologist for the even more flawed US Administration.
At least with Rudd as PM, we have someone who understands foreign policy engagement - in the 21st century rather than the times of colonial powers.
Thanks for reminding me about the silly pictures - here is a good one used last time that is just as relevant today:
And a far sighted predcition from Howard Hughes back in the heady days of 2004:
same bait - same haul
Keating set up the monetary framework for the economic conditions that Howard has sown. Even some of the Libs admit that.
I wasn't talking about the Prime Minatures physical stature, as you infer, but of his outlook - or should it be called inlook? Where is the regional foreign policy of engagement that Keating started? Binned. Instead we doff our hats to those old colonial dinosaurs... and look what that has done for our worldwide reputation. We have been reduced to an apologist for the even more flawed US Administration.
At least with Rudd as PM, we have someone who understands foreign policy engagement - in the 21st century rather than the times of colonial powers.
Thanks for reminding me about the silly pictures - here is a good one used last time that is just as relevant today:
And a far sighted predcition from Howard Hughes back in the heady days of 2004:
Tip: Kevin Rudd will be the next Labour prime minister of Australia because he is another smart politician!! (you heard it here first)
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 14th Feb 2007 at 09:57.
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This is always what the Labor Party quote as "Interest Rates" under Howard. Let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good rant though! 
just like WMD and the war in Iraq AH
just like WMD and the war in Iraq AH
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You old bugger!
Fair enough - I guess you are the Howard Bread & Butter voter, so good luck with that - assuming you intend to vote for him again. I suppose the baby boomers still have a bit more they want their country to do for them.
On the cyclic thing - Canberra needs an enema. Bring back some frank and fearless advice in the public service. Not party hacks.
"I can assure you - the Minister does NOT want to know that!"
Filter the advice long enough and we have a nice position for you at MacBank or the Sydney Airports Corporation.
Brings back reminders of the famous Ministerial Code of Conduct.... oh dear.
The workers paradise under Howard?
PAF, I am quite aware of how to spell Labor - I think you will find I was quoting one of your brethren - but thanks for the important tip anyhow.
Fair enough - I guess you are the Howard Bread & Butter voter, so good luck with that - assuming you intend to vote for him again. I suppose the baby boomers still have a bit more they want their country to do for them.
On the cyclic thing - Canberra needs an enema. Bring back some frank and fearless advice in the public service. Not party hacks.
"I can assure you - the Minister does NOT want to know that!"
Filter the advice long enough and we have a nice position for you at MacBank or the Sydney Airports Corporation.
Brings back reminders of the famous Ministerial Code of Conduct.... oh dear.
The workers paradise under Howard?
From John Spoehr, Associate Professor and Executive Director of the Australian Institute for Social Research, University of Adelaide, writes:
The jury is in on the impact of the new laws. They are undermining the working conditions of thousands of Australian workers, particularly female workers. The Federal Government’s own Office of the Employment Advocate undertook a survey last year of Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs) lodged under WorkChoices.
The survey revealed that the agreements excluded important protected award conditions – 63% excluded penalty rates, 52% shift loadings, 46% public holiday pay and 40% rest breaks. David Peetz reveals that this understates the problem because the number of AWAs that modified or reduced conditions has not been taken into account, bring the proportion of AWAs that cut overtime to around 82%.
John Howard's battlers look set to desert him.
The jury is in on the impact of the new laws. They are undermining the working conditions of thousands of Australian workers, particularly female workers. The Federal Government’s own Office of the Employment Advocate undertook a survey last year of Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs) lodged under WorkChoices.
The survey revealed that the agreements excluded important protected award conditions – 63% excluded penalty rates, 52% shift loadings, 46% public holiday pay and 40% rest breaks. David Peetz reveals that this understates the problem because the number of AWAs that modified or reduced conditions has not been taken into account, bring the proportion of AWAs that cut overtime to around 82%.
John Howard's battlers look set to desert him.
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 15th Feb 2007 at 11:30.
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The The,
Precisely why Howard won't talk about this when challenged.
One can cherry pick overnight cash rates (before the dollar was floated) versus bank rates vs, retail rates.
The bottom line is can you afford to do what you want to do?
11 years of Liberal regime suggests it is getting a lot harder to - so where is the benefit of this superior economic management of the Costello/Howard dream team?
Had a look at personal debt levels lately?
No wonder fear campaigns are so effective.
Precisely why Howard won't talk about this when challenged.
One can cherry pick overnight cash rates (before the dollar was floated) versus bank rates vs, retail rates.
The bottom line is can you afford to do what you want to do?
11 years of Liberal regime suggests it is getting a lot harder to - so where is the benefit of this superior economic management of the Costello/Howard dream team?
Had a look at personal debt levels lately?
No wonder fear campaigns are so effective.
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Sorry to drift somewhat on the thread people, but I think the real problem lies with the bipartisan system. While we have it both the majors will be formulating policy for the middle ground, the swingers. At either end of the spectrum the voters are pretty much locked in. This means ****su and others won't see too much change. The policies will be slightly different but generally similar.
If anyone thinks there is a measure of control in either parties economic policy they might not get the "free trade" markets Sunfish is so keen on quoting. We are global these days and interest rates are tied to the US and our economy will fall or succeed on world commodity prices. we manufacture high end medical stuff and we are innovative which means we sell it to someone with lower costs of production.
As to Aviation policy we should do the numbers and see how that middle segment will view it. Do they care about qantas being torn apart by the fiscal wrecking crew? Did they care about Commonwealth Bank, Telstra and all the other family silver sold by both parties? Do they care more about safety with good lobbyists touting a range of options? What sort of spin gets put on pilot wages? My belief is Aviation policy will stagnate coz it's not worth the risk and most people wouldn't get it, so it's too easy to baffle with.......
If anyone thinks there is a measure of control in either parties economic policy they might not get the "free trade" markets Sunfish is so keen on quoting. We are global these days and interest rates are tied to the US and our economy will fall or succeed on world commodity prices. we manufacture high end medical stuff and we are innovative which means we sell it to someone with lower costs of production.
As to Aviation policy we should do the numbers and see how that middle segment will view it. Do they care about qantas being torn apart by the fiscal wrecking crew? Did they care about Commonwealth Bank, Telstra and all the other family silver sold by both parties? Do they care more about safety with good lobbyists touting a range of options? What sort of spin gets put on pilot wages? My belief is Aviation policy will stagnate coz it's not worth the risk and most people wouldn't get it, so it's too easy to baffle with.......