Virgin Blue To Operate Embraer's On Albury-Sydney Route.
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If you think that DJ arn't going to charge $200 for seats to Syd also, then you must be living in a fantasy world. Stop drinking the water from the Murray and you might be ok.
err... I don't think so! but think what you like.
Cheers.
It took me a while...
p_g = SS320.
p_g = SS320.
Cheers.
AustralianMade
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Well if DJ start charging $200 a ticket then I will consider them to be sticking it to the locals as well.
Your arguement has turned around, first you don't think Rex and QL have been sticking it to us, now you think DJ will be joining them in sticking it to us...
I guess that means we are saying the same thing!
Cheers,
ABX
Your arguement has turned around, first you don't think Rex and QL have been sticking it to us, now you think DJ will be joining them in sticking it to us...
I guess that means we are saying the same thing!
Cheers,
ABX
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Those SYD-ABX are pretty busy. The flights I have operated they are about 60-65 of 78 seats sold. The guest on board are alittle happy to hear flight times of 30 mins compared to 45-60 mins on the props.
30 mins requires an average ground speed of around 490kt point-to-point.
and that don't include manoeuvring in the SY Terminal area.
Many of the landings are reverse thrust free, just foot braking. Fantastic glide into the airport.
Give us a break Kitty Blue
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I spoke just today with someone in authority at YMAY & it's known to be 48 mins in the jungle jet, AY-SY, no doubt to allow the Capt to finish his cuppa
490 kts is a bit ambitious, not unachievable obviously but certaintly not planned. I've flown a Lear 35 @ up to mach 0.8+ (planned at 380 kts) & you don't get around 500 kts TAS never lone G/S unless it's favourable. I doubt the Jungle jet cruises at that unless pushed (could be wrong), besides it's a short sector. Take in clb, being right royal stuffed around at SY & you have an hour lasped before you can turn yr Mob Ph back on !
Anyway beats the 'boat planes' & it's sexy
CW
490 kts is a bit ambitious, not unachievable obviously but certaintly not planned. I've flown a Lear 35 @ up to mach 0.8+ (planned at 380 kts) & you don't get around 500 kts TAS never lone G/S unless it's favourable. I doubt the Jungle jet cruises at that unless pushed (could be wrong), besides it's a short sector. Take in clb, being right royal stuffed around at SY & you have an hour lasped before you can turn yr Mob Ph back on !
Anyway beats the 'boat planes' & it's sexy
CW
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You can't lump pax into one bag.the business pax will be happier if the flight is quicker and more comfortable and they don't care about the price because a lot of them are not paying for it themselves.
the holiday pax though will go for the cheaper tickets whether that is a greyhound bus,a train or an aircraft.
the holiday pax though will go for the cheaper tickets whether that is a greyhound bus,a train or an aircraft.
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Ferris, of course I know jets are capable of such speeds. The point I was making is that 30 mins just ain't gonna happen. As Capt. Wally wrote - 48mins. Now that's believable
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OK, but the reason you gave for poo-pooing the idea of 30 mins was 490 G/S not going to happen (at least thats the way i read it).
Sure, 30 mins is ambitious, but not because of the groundspeed (as you are obviously aware). I reckon if it was teed-up (AY dct 5 mile final, no speed etc), 30 mins wheels up to wheels down could be done! Sounds like a challenge! Any takers?
Capt wally- AY- SY is going to be favourable most days- yes? Watched a jungle jet grounding at 550 yesterday (with the wind), and the wind was nothing special.
I'll still fly Rex- the staff are great.
Sure, 30 mins is ambitious, but not because of the groundspeed (as you are obviously aware). I reckon if it was teed-up (AY dct 5 mile final, no speed etc), 30 mins wheels up to wheels down could be done! Sounds like a challenge! Any takers?
Capt wally- AY- SY is going to be favourable most days- yes? Watched a jungle jet grounding at 550 yesterday (with the wind), and the wind was nothing special.
I'll still fly Rex- the staff are great.
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'ferris' 550 kts is very achievable but it's rare esspecially on a short sector where the jungkle jet is likely to climb to say FL280 for that short trip where winds & TAS would be less than higher up.
I heard one just today getting onwards clearance from ATC for FL280 enroute to SYD. So assuming that's a typical crz lvl & based on say 10 mins for CLB to that LVL covering say 50 nm's & a decent profile of 2X CRZ height meaning another 10 mins for decent covering say another 50 nm leaving around 140+ miles for crz. That's assuming that it's pretty much direct to SYD (which it would rarely be) Crz at 450 kts (still ambitious most days planning wise) that makes for a crz of around 18 to 20 imns. All this adds up to close to 40 mins for the actual flight time alone, AY- SY. Not to mention the taxi time both ends & any holding. Pax only want to know the elapsed time once they are in the plane.
Besides as long as the jet is quicker which ot would be then pax have gotta be happier.
'roamingwolf' yr quite correct there, mum & dad flyers will go by horse & cart if it's cheaper but the airlines really on make good money from the business market, & the jet will smell of business men/women all day everyday given enough frequency
CW
I heard one just today getting onwards clearance from ATC for FL280 enroute to SYD. So assuming that's a typical crz lvl & based on say 10 mins for CLB to that LVL covering say 50 nm's & a decent profile of 2X CRZ height meaning another 10 mins for decent covering say another 50 nm leaving around 140+ miles for crz. That's assuming that it's pretty much direct to SYD (which it would rarely be) Crz at 450 kts (still ambitious most days planning wise) that makes for a crz of around 18 to 20 imns. All this adds up to close to 40 mins for the actual flight time alone, AY- SY. Not to mention the taxi time both ends & any holding. Pax only want to know the elapsed time once they are in the plane.
Besides as long as the jet is quicker which ot would be then pax have gotta be happier.
'roamingwolf' yr quite correct there, mum & dad flyers will go by horse & cart if it's cheaper but the airlines really on make good money from the business market, & the jet will smell of business men/women all day everyday given enough frequency
CW
I think Mr Jarse's point is that 490kts "point to point" is impossible. Anyone that thinks it is consistently possible into Sydney must be kidding themselves. You would have to average that groundspeed including climb, descent and approach - I don't think so.
As for trying to set a record by using it as a benchmark - I think it might be safer to catch the train.
As for trying to set a record by using it as a benchmark - I think it might be safer to catch the train.
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Contesting the ABX market
DJ's two flights per day are a 'toe in the water' exercise to test the 'temperature'. Krusty 34 in an earlier post was correct when he said the only way to seriously contest the ABX (and Port Macquarie) markets would be for DJ to overnight an ERJ in those ports to chase the business market, which would require a large investment decision as the first flight location of an RPT aircraft in part determines the overall daily flight schedule. With many more ERJ's on order however anything is possible!
Any scale up of services in either the ABX or PMQ market will spark a price war with the encumbents. Customers will win out in the short term through cheaper short-term fares and frequency. The losing operator typically will have highest costs and be unable to sustain deeply discounted fares for an extended period. Over short stage lengths such as SY-ABX and SY-PMQ Props beat Jets on costs every time!!
Chock to Chock time ABX-SY-ABX for the props averages 65 minutes so there is no real saving on such a short sector with a Jet and thus any 'contest' will come down to fare price and schedule frequency! QED!!
Any scale up of services in either the ABX or PMQ market will spark a price war with the encumbents. Customers will win out in the short term through cheaper short-term fares and frequency. The losing operator typically will have highest costs and be unable to sustain deeply discounted fares for an extended period. Over short stage lengths such as SY-ABX and SY-PMQ Props beat Jets on costs every time!!
Chock to Chock time ABX-SY-ABX for the props averages 65 minutes so there is no real saving on such a short sector with a Jet and thus any 'contest' will come down to fare price and schedule frequency! QED!!
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Let me elaborate. Flight time as noted is airtime not taxi time. Another flight and the we did land into sydney on R34 with a airborne component of 32 mins. Can not get better than that from ABX-SYD. SYD-ABX airborne times around the 35min.
rodmiller, I am aware that DJ have been flying into AY for the past month!
My question refered to the approach for "R34" (sic) at Sydney. This is because the manner in which ATC process traffic to 34R (correct terminology), can have a significant effect with regard to track miles in the terminal area.
Kitty, you are a DJ pilot and not some P/R type in disguise?
My question refered to the approach for "R34" (sic) at Sydney. This is because the manner in which ATC process traffic to 34R (correct terminology), can have a significant effect with regard to track miles in the terminal area.
Kitty, you are a DJ pilot and not some P/R type in disguise?
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'KB' I think you will find that the flying public don't give a stuff about flying time they just want to know how long it will take to fly from A-B once they are strapped in. When the door is closed to them that's when the clock starts ticking!
'ccysam' would be spot on as would 'CW', 40 mins flight time & an hr elapsed time from sit down to get up on the AY-SY run! The 'cattle' just want to get there & as fast as possible, 30 mins is dreamtime !
F
'ccysam' would be spot on as would 'CW', 40 mins flight time & an hr elapsed time from sit down to get up on the AY-SY run! The 'cattle' just want to get there & as fast as possible, 30 mins is dreamtime !
F
Hey, ease up on kittyblue. Does it make you feel big to belittle someone trying to contribute? I don't know him/her, but so far on this thread, he/she is one of the few with factual information in posts as opposed to hearsay. I hear New Idea are looking for applications to fill a couple of senior editor positions - maybe some of you should apply - might be more money?
Regardless, from the sounds of it, they are filling the planes, and theres some good PR coming from it as the Albury folk seem to appreciate the jet service, and the competition.
Regardless, from the sounds of it, they are filling the planes, and theres some good PR coming from it as the Albury folk seem to appreciate the jet service, and the competition.