Delays into Melbourne Thursday evening 25th October
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delays into Melbourne Thursday evening 25th October
Any pilots out there get delayed this evening into Melbourne? Up to, and over 30min delays, the reason……..staff shortage in the tower, with no replacement available. Thousands of people would have been affected. Me thinks it may have been tower people starting to show some ‘grip’ (refusal) to Airservices in result to their incapability to manage staffing numbers. How ironic that Richard Dudley (General Manager Corporate Affairs) was on hand in the centre to see it for himself!
If you think that was bad, wait till airspace is closed when they start reducing numbers on the nightshift to single manned. Controllers will refuse to work, a) because their fatigue will skyrocket, and b) Airservices’ way of ensuring a break is had, is to have a controller from different airspace, different stream (approach or enroute) give a 20min break! Not only is this unsafe, it down right stupid, think Uberlingen – Swiss Mid Air, and the associated findings in employing dual manned coverage. If you want to see / read more http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=296753
If you think that was bad, wait till airspace is closed when they start reducing numbers on the nightshift to single manned. Controllers will refuse to work, a) because their fatigue will skyrocket, and b) Airservices’ way of ensuring a break is had, is to have a controller from different airspace, different stream (approach or enroute) give a 20min break! Not only is this unsafe, it down right stupid, think Uberlingen – Swiss Mid Air, and the associated findings in employing dual manned coverage. If you want to see / read more http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=296753
Join Date: May 2007
Location: bagdad
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems that all management whether it be airlines or atc are screwing their workers, i hope it's not only a matter of time before we have a major incident to wake these fukcers up!!!
cost cutting could eventuly kill a lot of people in this country I believe!!!!
cost cutting could eventuly kill a lot of people in this country I believe!!!!
Last edited by The Kavorka; 28th Oct 2007 at 00:08.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATC in Melbourne is becoming a bit of a joke- so much for AirSERVICES...
Delays are becoming almost expected. Single runway ops becoming common place. I guess we are heading back to the dark ages.
I hope the airlines are getting compensation for all the delays and extra costs this is causing. I know this cheeses the pax off- especially when I am one!
Delays are becoming almost expected. Single runway ops becoming common place. I guess we are heading back to the dark ages.
I hope the airlines are getting compensation for all the delays and extra costs this is causing. I know this cheeses the pax off- especially when I am one!
Last edited by virgindriver; 28th Oct 2007 at 12:58.
Just another example of the decline in vital aviation professions.
Pilot, Air Traffic Controller, Aircraft Engineer, etc... all, have had their conditions sacrificed over the years on the altar of mangement bonuses. Great for the share price, but ultimately they have been building their ivory towers on sand!
It's not too late, but they must act now. Restore wages and conditions to what they should be, retain highly skilled staff, and rebuild the desire for these professions into the future.
Continue to live on a different planet to rest of us, and you will end up dining on ashes!
Pilot, Air Traffic Controller, Aircraft Engineer, etc... all, have had their conditions sacrificed over the years on the altar of mangement bonuses. Great for the share price, but ultimately they have been building their ivory towers on sand!
It's not too late, but they must act now. Restore wages and conditions to what they should be, retain highly skilled staff, and rebuild the desire for these professions into the future.
Continue to live on a different planet to rest of us, and you will end up dining on ashes!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 28th Oct 2007 at 10:57.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 58
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Melbourne delays
Virgindriver - sorry had to reply to your post! As a Melbourne ATC I have to confirm your assumption that ATC has requested strong winds thereby reducing us to single runway ops. We all find it very amusing to watch you all fly around in circles (because the company still schedules for the LAHSO rate regardless of wind conditions) then work our buts off for over 2 hours getting you all in. Please don't tell everyone though - it will be our little secret!
Krusty34 - Spot on post. Salaries in ATC seem to be on the rise internationally in responce to staff difficulties. Are the pilots/engineer offers going up??? One day (hopefully soon) the companies will pay more than lip service to staffing and start trying to fix this massive problem - hopefully before a disaster occurs.
Blue
Krusty34 - Spot on post. Salaries in ATC seem to be on the rise internationally in responce to staff difficulties. Are the pilots/engineer offers going up??? One day (hopefully soon) the companies will pay more than lip service to staffing and start trying to fix this massive problem - hopefully before a disaster occurs.
Blue
Last edited by bluerider777; 28th Oct 2007 at 04:49.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 16 ILS is also being upgraded so is out of service for a few months. The NDB minima is a fair bit higher so low cloud with certain weather conditions may require rwy 27 only rather than 16/27. I've also heard that "the airlines don't like the NDB approach". I guess there's an increase in workload.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: sydney
Age: 53
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
last thursday morning we had a 25 min delay on the ground out of Melbourne,the wind was light with 8 knots of downwind on 27,why not use 09 for either arrivals or departures,15 aircraft waiting for up to 30 mins is ridiculous-we would be better of sitting at the gate and awaiting a start clearance as opposed to wasting half a tonne of fuel.such a waste!
The 16 STARs conclude with picking up the localiser. If there is no localiser then the STARs should not be issued, at least in their presently published form. The IAF for the NDB is Bolinda. Only one STAR flies over Bolinda, the rest turn well inside of it and nobody likes NDBs.
hardin up slats!
As far as NDB approaches go, mel 16 is pretty straight forward! fwiw, the 'arbey' star goes takes you to the start, just doesn't have approach 'joining' instructions... easily fixed by the atco saying 'cleared NDB 16'. simple.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 16 STARs conclude with picking up the localiser. If there is no localiser then the STARs should not be issued, at least in their presently published form. The IAF for the NDB is Bolinda. Only one STAR flies over Bolinda, the rest turn well inside of it and nobody likes NDBs.
The approach clearance may/will be different than the STAR plate depending on conditions and available aids, eg VSAs, VOR, NDB, RNAV etc. hence why they aren't integrated into the STAR plates and have their own page(s).
PS, VD, like it, I guess all these Northerly/Westerly winds (aka ASA hot air) commence just west and south of the runway intersection; sure blame the inefficient ATCs for airlines turning up 40 an hour when only 28 are landing; it's just easier that way.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 58
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delays on Ground Thu?
Parc - not sure of the exact conditions but Thu every week is runway(27/09) out day - for maintenance works. Regardless of the wind we are limited to 16 or 34 and many of the opportunities for departures off another runway disappear. Not sure if this was the case then though as I was off duty Thu.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One can imagine the pressure being placed on the controllers concerned.
The controllers sitting on the console are the final link in their system. Just as the pilots and engineers are on the flying side.
"mis-management" driven by bean counters, looking at numbers have successively failed to realise that revenue is not generated from financial accounts and people sitting driving desks but from the operational staff.
Driving those people's morale into the ground with an adversarial culture, cost driven policies and kpi's(for managers) have delivered a system where operational staff will push back, be they pilots, engineers or in this case controllers. It is us collectively who hold aviation together. The link is being stretched too far. It is not the regulator, it is certainly not mis-management but the guys/girls at the pointy end of the respective operations that do their best to ensure safe skies and know full well who carries the can on a badddd day!
The controllers sitting on the console are the final link in their system. Just as the pilots and engineers are on the flying side.
"mis-management" driven by bean counters, looking at numbers have successively failed to realise that revenue is not generated from financial accounts and people sitting driving desks but from the operational staff.
Driving those people's morale into the ground with an adversarial culture, cost driven policies and kpi's(for managers) have delivered a system where operational staff will push back, be they pilots, engineers or in this case controllers. It is us collectively who hold aviation together. The link is being stretched too far. It is not the regulator, it is certainly not mis-management but the guys/girls at the pointy end of the respective operations that do their best to ensure safe skies and know full well who carries the can on a badddd day!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Getting a bit off the topic, please, we urge all you pilots, when you do encounter TIBA or "delays due staff shortage" as we publish on the ATIS, to log it with your company. That way it can be directed to our incompetent management team.
Bare with us, we try our best, its the gooses who run the company that dont
Bare with us, we try our best, its the gooses who run the company that dont
