Pilot Shortage message spreads
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You are perfectly correct - discrimination on the basis of age is ILLEGAL in this country.
Last edited by training wheels; 14th Oct 2007 at 13:25. Reason: Added URL for all those young blokes out there too young to remember!
I know that Journalist read this site, I feel that they must see the difference between Rex saying that the industry need some 1400 ATPL holders and some 400 a year are issued. Note, that a new pilot is not an ATPL holder, mistake number one Rex. Also, there are so many folks that are Australian Citizens that hold current ATPL’s that it would be a financial step backwards to fly for Rex with the cost of living in Rex bases like Sydney and Melbourne and also dealing with the Rex roster. On the other hand, the Rex roster would suite so many very Experienced Aust ATPL holders, but Rex wont even match there “little plane wage”. The sheer number of Australian Pilots going abroad due to companies like Rex complaining of no crews, but not even offering an interview or making conditions even 30% as attractive is just so surprising to me. What I think this is all leading to, is not bringing up to the standard and level of supply and demand, but making a case for foreign visa’s. This is what this is all about. Me, I have traveled Rex 9 times in 2007, I no longer book with them due to a fear of the flight being CXL.
How does training your own shinny 150hrs co-pilots beat simple respect ?
How does training your own shinny 150hrs co-pilots beat simple respect ?
When you live....
Radio ads!
Just heard an ad on Melbourne commercial radio from 'Peregrine Aviation' spruiking the 'pilot shortage' and offering sponsored paths to a RHS without uni degrees etc.
(checked out the website - WTF?
)
UTR
(checked out the website - WTF?
"Phil Sweeney is our company representative in Australia. Phil is a private pilot situated on the Gold Coast, Queensland.
He has over 20 years of aviation experience as a recreational pilot, and has a strong passion towards the industry"
He has over 20 years of aviation experience as a recreational pilot, and has a strong passion towards the industry"
UTR
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As far as I can ascertain - there ain't no pilot shortage in Oz. Am I missing something here?? Rex go overseas to recruit ?? All the while there is an abundance of well qualified Aussies (and Kiwis) here and abroad who can't get a peep.
What in the world is happening here - is there still an old Ansett blacklist or what ???
Regionals (and majors) appear to `throw out muddy water when the creek is dry'.
No wonder Ozzies nick off o/s , they go somewhere else where they are wanted and who could blame them.
Maybe there is such a thing as overqualified, who knows... and it appears that anyone over 40, smell of death - dead men walking, sorry, they have a foot in the grave and God forbid a Regional would hire them, yet they would most probably turn out to be the most dependable, reliable and loyal employee an airline could hire (irrespective of their experience).
Can anybody educate me on this madness..?? I hope the airline boffins read these threads and explain why this nonsense is occurring.
What in the world is happening here - is there still an old Ansett blacklist or what ???
Regionals (and majors) appear to `throw out muddy water when the creek is dry'.
No wonder Ozzies nick off o/s , they go somewhere else where they are wanted and who could blame them.
Maybe there is such a thing as overqualified, who knows... and it appears that anyone over 40, smell of death - dead men walking, sorry, they have a foot in the grave and God forbid a Regional would hire them, yet they would most probably turn out to be the most dependable, reliable and loyal employee an airline could hire (irrespective of their experience).
Can anybody educate me on this madness..?? I hope the airline boffins read these threads and explain why this nonsense is occurring.
A mate of mine just got a start with them, he/she hasn't flown for over a year and has the 1500ttPIC and 500multi PIC.
So I guess they still are hiring guys that have done their time out bush.
So I guess they still are hiring guys that have done their time out bush.
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A few of you sound a bit worried about foreign pilots coming to oz on special visas to fly......why would they?? The coming pilot shortage in oz and the numbers being quoted are insignificant on a world scale. Just one example is Emirates, they have 108 planes now with 50 coming in next few years and they're expected to announce more orders at the DXB airshow in a couple of weeks for at least 50 more and possibly up to 150. CX have an a/c arriving every month for the next 4 years.
There will be bidding wars between airlines not only to attract more crews but just to retain the ones they have now.
Airlines in oz (jetstar/vb)don't think they have to pay as much as foreign carriers because everyone wants to stay in oz for the lifestyle!
Q: what sort of 'lifestyle' can you afford earning 100K living in any of Australia's capital cities while servicing a mortgage?
A: a very basic one.(ie you're not going to get ahead!) A large correction is imminent.
Any eastern euro will go somewhere like Emirates a: for the cash and b: its closer to home!!
And as for those 90 or so new CPL holders per year, a % of them will head o/s at some point anyway.
Just wait 12 months when V oz start getting their 777's and J*'s 787's start rolling up, there'll be plenty of excitement. Remember, both of those companies are competing for type rated guys from CX, EK and SIA at a time when those 3 airlines are experiencing unprecedented growth. Yes, thats right, they will all be competing for our services now!!!
For the first time probably ever, market forces will significantly push salaries up across the board in the coming years.
Relax.
There will be bidding wars between airlines not only to attract more crews but just to retain the ones they have now.
Airlines in oz (jetstar/vb)don't think they have to pay as much as foreign carriers because everyone wants to stay in oz for the lifestyle!
Q: what sort of 'lifestyle' can you afford earning 100K living in any of Australia's capital cities while servicing a mortgage?
A: a very basic one.(ie you're not going to get ahead!) A large correction is imminent.
Any eastern euro will go somewhere like Emirates a: for the cash and b: its closer to home!!
And as for those 90 or so new CPL holders per year, a % of them will head o/s at some point anyway.
Just wait 12 months when V oz start getting their 777's and J*'s 787's start rolling up, there'll be plenty of excitement. Remember, both of those companies are competing for type rated guys from CX, EK and SIA at a time when those 3 airlines are experiencing unprecedented growth. Yes, thats right, they will all be competing for our services now!!!
For the first time probably ever, market forces will significantly push salaries up across the board in the coming years.
Relax.
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110% agree Bored!
However, I dont think 'market forces' will take years to impact salary increases - They already exist (not so for struggling bobble heads).
Also, your piont on CX, EK & SIA is true but the pressure may come from airline/s much closer to home. Yesterday the Australian Financial Reveiew reported private equity was sniffing around DJ and yes we've heard it all before, however I believe there to be a strong element of truth to this - They reported Asian interest & I wouldn't be suprised to see macqaurie bank involved either.
Regadless, who it is (if true - i'm looking at the glass 1/2 full) private equity will be positive for pilots. Many will say they're toe cutters but I think they have the smarts to know where to cut and where to pay up.
However, I dont think 'market forces' will take years to impact salary increases - They already exist (not so for struggling bobble heads).
Also, your piont on CX, EK & SIA is true but the pressure may come from airline/s much closer to home. Yesterday the Australian Financial Reveiew reported private equity was sniffing around DJ and yes we've heard it all before, however I believe there to be a strong element of truth to this - They reported Asian interest & I wouldn't be suprised to see macqaurie bank involved either.
Regadless, who it is (if true - i'm looking at the glass 1/2 full) private equity will be positive for pilots. Many will say they're toe cutters but I think they have the smarts to know where to cut and where to pay up.
TAX TAX TAX Remember that word. AU$150 000 salary gets a $48 500 bill from the ATO, with 45% on earnings over that. Very little in the way of benefits from the government either for high income earners.
Look at the whole picture from your own situation, married/single, children/no children, lifestyle, saving ability, career progression. A job that would be perfect for you might be miserable for someone else.
25 years old single looking to see the world, save some money and upgrade quickly on new equipment. Middle East or Asia
55 years old family ties, sick of long haul, cashed up, already a captain. Better of at home.
Look at the whole picture from your own situation, married/single, children/no children, lifestyle, saving ability, career progression. A job that would be perfect for you might be miserable for someone else.
25 years old single looking to see the world, save some money and upgrade quickly on new equipment. Middle East or Asia
55 years old family ties, sick of long haul, cashed up, already a captain. Better of at home.
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I am not aware of any Oz based carrier that contributes to mortgage/rent or provides accommodation, contributes to utilities or school fees. Other sweetners include Loss Of license/ life insurance & provident fund. A combination of some or all of these in addition to the salary are usually included in an expat package. As metroman says, look very carefully at the whole package & your own situation before you write off the apparently low headline rate.
Last edited by Launch_code_Harry; 17th Oct 2007 at 03:47. Reason: adding sweetners
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I am not aware of any Oz based carrier that contributes to mortgage/rent or provides accommodation, contributes to utilities or school fees.
Really?? Qantas & Virgin Blue don't try and help pilots out by offering salary sacrifice on living expenses? If this rumour is true the aviation industry needs to really get with the times.
Don't see QF or Virgin giving free furnished accommodation including lights and water, paying school fees, free medical insurance, transport to and from work and direct entry commands.
A few benefits such as loss of licence; salary sacrifice just helps offset the ridiculous tax rates by a small amount.
Financially better off overseas, BUT you must decide if the sacrifices are worth it to YOU.
A few benefits such as loss of licence; salary sacrifice just helps offset the ridiculous tax rates by a small amount.
Financially better off overseas, BUT you must decide if the sacrifices are worth it to YOU.
Nunc est bibendum
Strewth PAF, I'm not sure that the Christie case has any relevance to the current argument.
Captain Christie wanted to remain as a senior captain on type. The company was unable to design trips to destinations that allowed crew over the age of 60. No discrimination, he just couldn't perform his duties.
I think the dust settled on that case before I joined Qantas and that was in '95!
Captain Christie wanted to remain as a senior captain on type. The company was unable to design trips to destinations that allowed crew over the age of 60. No discrimination, he just couldn't perform his duties.
I think the dust settled on that case before I joined Qantas and that was in '95!
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What about applying though? Ageism is alive and well. If you had a rich daddy and got qualified soon, you look better than the guy who sweated his way through multiple jobs saving every cent to fly. Takes longer. Years longer.
WynSock
I am not sure about age discrimination at various Australian airlines. Plenty of Pilots employed in the last few years to the 'majors' in their late thirties and early forties.
I am not sure about age discrimination at various Australian airlines. Plenty of Pilots employed in the last few years to the 'majors' in their late thirties and early forties.
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What Bored sounds realistic. Why worry? The majority of us will get what we want eventually as long as we work towards getting there. Exciting times for all of us I say!
From the AFAP website:
We've had a flying school offering to get lapsed instructors current again, now one is actually going to spend money training them.
CPL holders with a NVFR or CIR rating are invited to apply for a FIR scholarship with Basair Aviation College. Suitable candidates will be trained for their Grade 3 instructor rating at no cost in exchange for a period of service to Basair
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Well, in the mean time airlines will reduce flights by say 2-4%, on the least lucrative routes.
Up ticket prices because of the "crisis'' by say 10%.
And profits will jump.
Talking about Zim and South african pilots. Yes most of them will love to move the families to Oz, but there are hardly any pilots left in Zim - they have no fuel.....
The South African industry employs around 1500 ALTPL holders, many too old to move and the rest looking at Emirates, Ryanair and Cathay , while operating in a profesional environment already.
I don't think ANY South Africans will be moving just to be exploited.
Up ticket prices because of the "crisis'' by say 10%.
And profits will jump.
Talking about Zim and South african pilots. Yes most of them will love to move the families to Oz, but there are hardly any pilots left in Zim - they have no fuel.....
The South African industry employs around 1500 ALTPL holders, many too old to move and the rest looking at Emirates, Ryanair and Cathay , while operating in a profesional environment already.
I don't think ANY South Africans will be moving just to be exploited.
There are already a number of pilots employed by South African Airways who are domiciled in Perth and commute to JNB. They don't have to look for a new employer as they already have Oz permanent resident status. There may be some SA regional pilots that the Oz airlines may target but most of them who wanted to move would have already done so.
Jetstar Intl has some ex SA pilots but I understand that these came from Emirates etc.
Jetstar Intl has some ex SA pilots but I understand that these came from Emirates etc.