Jetstar say 787 maintenance too expensive!
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Shake the head a bit guys, look up and lift yourselves out of your burrow, there is much more to an airline than just in-house heavy maintenance.
Jetstar executives from what I can discern include the mayor of Port Stevens ( a politician!), the Chairman of an airport company (getting warmer), CEO of a regional tourism organisation (hmm let's call him marketing) an IT expert (someone who knows how to use the computer.
Hmm no institutional memory of aviation and especially of air crashes. What I'd really like to know is...
Of all the management team at Jetstar which one will run the fastest to distance themselves from the predictable air disaster which their new found obsession with cutting maintenance costs is bound to cause/
It's not a question now of whether Jetstar will kill 300+ people. Just when with all this deadwood at the top.
Not one of them "management perspective" will have the spine to stand up and say it was management's fault.
Your post here blaming engineers for these 787 problems already proves that you don't have a clue.
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MP and your like ... let you in on something.
When your shiny new jets roll up here, without a doubt .. that machine will break down .. whether its relatively simple or a dire AOG situation .. you WILL pay, regardless of cost.
It happens ALL the time .. and airlines want their planes flying ASAP, and they scream .. fix it .. and it costs big time.
I can assure you regardless of the number of suits, number crunshers and other useless hangers-on, you will stare through those terminal windows or tarmac cameras, rosy tinged glasses and feel completely futile.
That small group of guys down there .. that you have belittled for so long .. will remember. Better still, if we don't have the contract, we'll be having a grand old chuckle on the nearby bay.
Maintenance costs, maintenance saves.
When your shiny new jets roll up here, without a doubt .. that machine will break down .. whether its relatively simple or a dire AOG situation .. you WILL pay, regardless of cost.
It happens ALL the time .. and airlines want their planes flying ASAP, and they scream .. fix it .. and it costs big time.
I can assure you regardless of the number of suits, number crunshers and other useless hangers-on, you will stare through those terminal windows or tarmac cameras, rosy tinged glasses and feel completely futile.
That small group of guys down there .. that you have belittled for so long .. will remember. Better still, if we don't have the contract, we'll be having a grand old chuckle on the nearby bay.
Maintenance costs, maintenance saves.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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If you think the Heavy Maintenance issues are going to bite them bad, Line Maintenance is going to have a chomp earlier.
Have they picked the Engineers for the 787? NO.
Have they started EASA training for B1 and B2? NO.
Have they impreesed with the pay scale for the 787? NO.
Mind you, as a certain person in Jetstar had a love of saying:- "There's thousands of engineers out there bashing on the door to get in."
It has been rumoured that the internal applications for 787 Enginneering positions have been a bit thin. People are underwhelmed. All these problems were not helped when at the last Engineering EBA meeting the Management promptly shut down proceedings when the Engineers had the temerity to include a professional negotiator in their team for the first time.
Have they picked the Engineers for the 787? NO.
Have they started EASA training for B1 and B2? NO.
Have they impreesed with the pay scale for the 787? NO.
Mind you, as a certain person in Jetstar had a love of saying:- "There's thousands of engineers out there bashing on the door to get in."
It has been rumoured that the internal applications for 787 Enginneering positions have been a bit thin. People are underwhelmed. All these problems were not helped when at the last Engineering EBA meeting the Management promptly shut down proceedings when the Engineers had the temerity to include a professional negotiator in their team for the first time.
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Out of interest guys, what is the deal like for 787 LAME's? Had a quick look at the Pornstar website earlier, and even considered applying, until I saw they want me to pay for the privelage. They can poke it with that attitude.....
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Out of interest guys, what is the deal like for 787 LAME's? Had a quick look at the Pornstar website earlier, and even considered applying, until I saw they want me to pay for the privelage. They can poke it with that attitude.....
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Maybe the intention is to have "most" of the maintenance done at a convienient MRO in Asia. The australian ports will be the outstations, hence no plans of training/tooling etc etc.
Maybe this is just the groundwork, so there are no surprises later.
Maybe it makes economical sense. Still have the trusted Roo on the tail, but in reality minimal australian workplace input.
Hmmmmm
Maybe this is just the groundwork, so there are no surprises later.
Maybe it makes economical sense. Still have the trusted Roo on the tail, but in reality minimal australian workplace input.
Hmmmmm
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Me wonders will Jetstar contract out to Air NZ at Auckland, or ANZES Christchurch for 787 maintenance ?
God knows Kiwi engineers are right up there with third world rates.
God knows Kiwi engineers are right up there with third world rates.
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I am disapointed that qantas engineering are not taking the lead in this project. I guess boeing is disapointed as well. E&M ruled the world once now its a shadow of its former self. good luck jetstar just rember if an aircraft breaks down in hawaii qantas will not be able to pull you out of the poo
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Jq Chc Eng
Interesting point, its not hard to steal work away from Air NZ mind you, i know of 2 very enterprising ex Air NZ line engineers one AKL one WLG that stole the line work from air nz after air nz unfarily dismissed them in separate cases , by all acounts they allowed Jetstar the start up that an apparent "world class" couldnt an dit left Rob Fyfe and Greg Fowler of ANZES management seething, they showed that the underdog cant bite the biggest!...
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QF group have ordered 15 x 787-8's
These are due to arrive from AUG08 for JQ.
The remainder are 787-9's. I believe the first one is due around 2011.
Therefore I think we won't see any new 787's direct to QF until 2011
These are due to arrive from AUG08 for JQ.
The remainder are 787-9's. I believe the first one is due around 2011.
Therefore I think we won't see any new 787's direct to QF until 2011
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I honestly don't see what Jetstar's problem is.
Surely they will just cook the books as usual and offload costs to QF, which then won't appear in their profit/loss statements, won't they?
Shareholders happy. Snivelling little irshman happy. Darth happy. All ops normal!
Surely they will just cook the books as usual and offload costs to QF, which then won't appear in their profit/loss statements, won't they?
Shareholders happy. Snivelling little irshman happy. Darth happy. All ops normal!
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Failure to recognize the context of this post validates a fundamental concern that some engineers have no understanding at all about the significance of maintenance cost per operating hour.
Shake the head a bit guys, look up and lift yourselves out of your burrow, there is much more to an airline than just in-house heavy maintenance.
MP.
Which means in "Management speak" cut the costs = more productivity bonus.
So it now appears that through the last 30 or so years that I have spent in aviation, so called management have put less and less into engineering training (the same scenario applies also to nursing), where "management" (LIL) always relied on getting trained people from overseas when required, or totally disregarding trade training as an unnecessary cost, or viewing people that got their hands dirty with the utmost contempt, and thinking that they must be smarter as they don't get their hands dirty, putting nothing back into training, no continuation training.
So us LAMEs get more and more load.......who get the bonuses??????
So? what you didn't guess?
Of course costs have to be with in the operational perspectives of running a business, but you can not arbitrarily just stop wage increases for certain departments, then just give management a huge pay rise!(or bonus)
Who is out there late at night trying to get the aircraft serviceable to meet the morning schedule? Is it you MP.????
Shake the head a bit guys, look up and lift yourselves out of your burrow, there is much more to an airline than just in-house heavy maintenance.
MP.
Which means in "Management speak" cut the costs = more productivity bonus.
So it now appears that through the last 30 or so years that I have spent in aviation, so called management have put less and less into engineering training (the same scenario applies also to nursing), where "management" (LIL) always relied on getting trained people from overseas when required, or totally disregarding trade training as an unnecessary cost, or viewing people that got their hands dirty with the utmost contempt, and thinking that they must be smarter as they don't get their hands dirty, putting nothing back into training, no continuation training.
So us LAMEs get more and more load.......who get the bonuses??????
So? what you didn't guess?
Of course costs have to be with in the operational perspectives of running a business, but you can not arbitrarily just stop wage increases for certain departments, then just give management a huge pay rise!(or bonus)
Who is out there late at night trying to get the aircraft serviceable to meet the morning schedule? Is it you MP.????
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Lets take a look
Jetstar A320 are covered by warrenty for 2 years, Maint costs are recovered if "defect confirmed" by Airbus or component manufacturer.
Jetstar A330 are leased from QF, I do not know who pays for the maintenance, but, if I had a lease car, and it broke down , the repair would be paid by the leasing company.
Again for the A320 after warrenty..be interesting to see if Jetstars, or Qantas's maintenance costs, (and therefore profit), increase or decline as the A320's get older.
To a dumb ass like me, maths can make anything look good, you just have to know how to play
Jetstar A330 are leased from QF, I do not know who pays for the maintenance, but, if I had a lease car, and it broke down , the repair would be paid by the leasing company.
Again for the A320 after warrenty..be interesting to see if Jetstars, or Qantas's maintenance costs, (and therefore profit), increase or decline as the A320's get older.
To a dumb ass like me, maths can make anything look good, you just have to know how to play
