Finally, some balls - NJS Pilots take industrial action
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Hmmm!...so you spent 13 years with an airline you consider "a joke" then leave to join another airline that no doubt you will also consider "a joke" in due course!
Oughta check your attitude, don't you think?
Oughta check your attitude, don't you think?
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It has been a very long time since the word 'scab' was allowed on this forum...so I'll work on the basis people have forgotten and give them the benefit of the doubt amos2
If memory serves the original amos was banned for using the word in the '89 wars' we had on here years ago.
Keep it civil or I'll lock the thread...the next person using 'scab' or any iteration thereof will be banned.
If memory serves the original amos was banned for using the word in the '89 wars' we had on here years ago.Keep it civil or I'll lock the thread...the next person using 'scab' or any iteration thereof will be banned.
....can I ask why?
Is this Political Correctness gone mad?
Scab is a definition from an encyclopedia? It is not a derogatory term like Pr!ck or similar, although events surrounding scabs do have a tendency to divert down the path of use of vulgarities but 'Scab' has no such foul connotation.
So we are prohibited from calling a spade a spade, it is yet again a 'digging implement'.
Is this Political Correctness gone mad?
Scab is a definition from an encyclopedia? It is not a derogatory term like Pr!ck or similar, although events surrounding scabs do have a tendency to divert down the path of use of vulgarities but 'Scab' has no such foul connotation.
So we are prohibited from calling a spade a spade, it is yet again a 'digging implement'.
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Using the S word in the context of this thread is a mis-use of the word. The original interpretation was that scabs were strike-breakers. NJS pilots are not strike breaking, merely selling themselves down the river. Prostituting perhaps, scabbing, no.
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Any use of the "S" word on here in reference to my comments is not only misplaced but misinformed. I have simply negotiated an individual agreement which is far in excess of anything I believe the chest beaters will be able to achieve by taking industrial action because they are too naive or lazy to get off their individual arses & look after themselves. That ain't "S...ing" gentlemen, it is called freedom & I ain't hitching my wagon to a bullock without a direction.
You are educated, professional & living as grown up's in the 21st century.
Think for yourselves, act by yourself and get what YOU want. In the end, the sum of the parts will be a more favourable pathway than the struggle to achieve a mediocre collective total.
You are educated, professional & living as grown up's in the 21st century.
Think for yourselves, act by yourself and get what YOU want. In the end, the sum of the parts will be a more favourable pathway than the struggle to achieve a mediocre collective total.
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Unless I have mis-understood your last Amos, you are an idiot
NJS is full of pilots that were " wronged " in '89, so I am not sure what grade of crack you are smoking. Hopefully nobody out there is stupid enough to put you in charge of anything more than a playstation 2.
I think I here your mum calling you for dinner, run along.
Blasted 666
666. You are either management masquerading as a pilot or a C & T person. No line pilots have been (or would be) offered an individual AWA like you claim to have been given by NJS Management. The evidence to that is the reality of what actually is in the AWA's of the vast majority of pilots at NJS, and why they have had enough of the Company's crap. The management at NJS don't give anything away, so if you have some 'specially negotiated' individual AWA there will be a 'reason'. There is something very odd about your claims 666! 
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Blaster, Blaster, Blaster, you really don't listen do you? Did you read my previous post about the current inequity between union CA's vs individual AWA's. It's a study, the voice put up the link, read it. Maybe you could have a look at the backlogs of "fairness test" breaches. Maybe you could look at the 45,000 that haven't even been looked at by Helen whatshername on the ad.
You may be like others and think, well hey I'm in the upper end of the market so it won't affect me. Wrong, think again, it will affect you and if not you, because you've sold yourself first, then maybe your kids and maybe in 3 years, 5 years, you then. There's the rub too blaster you act all smarmy about your individual bargaining power now. What happens when you change jobs, for whatever reason and you're told " no signee no start". What happens if a couple of airlines falter and supply picks up? Where will you be then, strong individual bargaining? No you'll either be managing or running to whoever can get you a better deal...
Sorry again for the long post but the record just keeps playing,
You may be like others and think, well hey I'm in the upper end of the market so it won't affect me. Wrong, think again, it will affect you and if not you, because you've sold yourself first, then maybe your kids and maybe in 3 years, 5 years, you then. There's the rub too blaster you act all smarmy about your individual bargaining power now. What happens when you change jobs, for whatever reason and you're told " no signee no start". What happens if a couple of airlines falter and supply picks up? Where will you be then, strong individual bargaining? No you'll either be managing or running to whoever can get you a better deal...
Sorry again for the long post but the record just keeps playing,
I suspect Blaster is a pseudonym for Dick. 
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Eat You Own
Gentlemen - I am not one of them - I am one of YOU. Just 'cause you wear blinkers when it comes to enhancing your employment conditions - doesn't mean you should be completely myopic when it comes to accepting that not all of us believe hollow threats of striking is the only way to get what you want.
Horror
Shock 
!!!! .......maybe some of you could even get off your lazy arses & try to talk to management personally about what it would take for YOU to sign one of their documents.....
Hang on
......forgot it is better to keep the united bravado .......too hard 
to think about what you can do to free up more cash for yourself..........let me join the picket 
........but......but......I can't find any picket.......
seems you boys must be enuchs after all 
Horror
Shock !!!! .......maybe some of you could even get off your lazy arses & try to talk to management personally about what it would take for YOU to sign one of their documents.....Hang on
......forgot it is better to keep the united bravado .......too hard to think about what you can do to free up more cash for yourself..........let me join the picket ........but......but......I can't find any picket....... seems you boys must be enuchs after all
blaster,
not sure what point you are trying to make.
I've been in this game for 22 years, and involved in the industrial scene for more than 10. I can tell you now that I have yet to see an airline management willing to contructively talk to their pilot group. I've seen lots of lip service, heard just about every excuse under the sun, and been witness to EBA negotiations that have lasted longer than the Korean war!!
Yet through all of this, not once have they actively sought council or dialouge with any employee group, let alone their largest.
If anyone can shed some light as to the reason for this frustrating phenomenon, then I would be more than happy to listen.
not sure what point you are trying to make.
I've been in this game for 22 years, and involved in the industrial scene for more than 10. I can tell you now that I have yet to see an airline management willing to contructively talk to their pilot group. I've seen lots of lip service, heard just about every excuse under the sun, and been witness to EBA negotiations that have lasted longer than the Korean war!!
Yet through all of this, not once have they actively sought council or dialouge with any employee group, let alone their largest.
If anyone can shed some light as to the reason for this frustrating phenomenon, then I would be more than happy to listen.
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Blaster
without prejudice:
I'm a little curious, how could you negotiate something on your AWA, when I know others have tried and could not?
I ask this not in a malicious sense, it just seems to fly (pardon the pun) in the face of what others have tried however you seem to be the only one that has had success.
I'm a little curious, how could you negotiate something on your AWA, when I know others have tried and could not?
I ask this not in a malicious sense, it just seems to fly (pardon the pun) in the face of what others have tried however you seem to be the only one that has had success.
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I am really curious 666, how, if as you state, you have managed to get a more favourable deal than every one else. I to, have had dealings with NJS management in the past , only to find you are talking to a blank wall
If you are so good at negotiation, you should put your hand up and be a rep. I'm sure we all would love to see you succeed where everyone else has failed
If you are so good at negotiation, you should put your hand up and be a rep. I'm sure we all would love to see you succeed where everyone else has failed
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
I believe the Blaster about his workplace agreement.
What Blaster neglects to tell us is that he probably didn't personally engage with the management to negotiate the agreement. He probably employed the wonderous one from the AFAP to do his bidding. The wonderous one probably told him to stick with an AWA because a collective agreement would be impossible to achieve. The wonderous one probably approached the management with a special proposal to increase AWA conditions to help entice TWU members away from a collective agreement. In effect Blaster has used TWU leverage to gain better conditions for himself and good luck to him. It is the path of least resistance.
Blaster also forgot to mention that when the management decide not to pay up then Blaster will have to fight his own battle. I am sure Blaster is up to the challenge however it will take much time and money. Or the wonderous one could act for him but wonderous still hasn't finished the last dispute, but whats 2 1/2 years between friends.
Blaster, I wish you well and hope the management don't nibble away at your agreement over the next 5 years BUT please just admit to yourself and others that without the TWU presence you would not have received your lush terms and conditions.
I believe the Blaster about his workplace agreement.
What Blaster neglects to tell us is that he probably didn't personally engage with the management to negotiate the agreement. He probably employed the wonderous one from the AFAP to do his bidding. The wonderous one probably told him to stick with an AWA because a collective agreement would be impossible to achieve. The wonderous one probably approached the management with a special proposal to increase AWA conditions to help entice TWU members away from a collective agreement. In effect Blaster has used TWU leverage to gain better conditions for himself and good luck to him. It is the path of least resistance.
Blaster also forgot to mention that when the management decide not to pay up then Blaster will have to fight his own battle. I am sure Blaster is up to the challenge however it will take much time and money. Or the wonderous one could act for him but wonderous still hasn't finished the last dispute, but whats 2 1/2 years between friends.
Blaster, I wish you well and hope the management don't nibble away at your agreement over the next 5 years BUT please just admit to yourself and others that without the TWU presence you would not have received your lush terms and conditions.
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Thank You
Gentlemen - we are (maybe reluctant but nevertheless) colleagues. We do not necessarily see eye to eye on this issue but I sincerely respect each of you for your passion and unique points of view. I wish you well for your battle & am not smug or contrite about the fact I have taken an alternative pathway and view with the same cynisicm as you do that I will not be sabotaged in the future.
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Blaster, without turning this into a love fest, I am not a reluctant colleague, I can see where you are at and understand that I am hard on the AFAP.
We follow different paths, thats Ok.
I am very reluctant about the management practices of our friends in ADL and regardless of which agreements people are on, I hope our management learn to have a little respect for their Pilots.
Simply, ADL managers STOP nibbling and attacking our agreements, terms and conditions.
There is enough to go around but you managers are wasting it by allowing disagreements to turn into senseless Court battles and Industrial disputes.
Aretha Franklin has the idea. RESPECT
We follow different paths, thats Ok.
I am very reluctant about the management practices of our friends in ADL and regardless of which agreements people are on, I hope our management learn to have a little respect for their Pilots.
Simply, ADL managers STOP nibbling and attacking our agreements, terms and conditions.
There is enough to go around but you managers are wasting it by allowing disagreements to turn into senseless Court battles and Industrial disputes.
Aretha Franklin has the idea. RESPECT
NJS Prosecution Proceeds
Meanwhile, with the possibility of industrial action looming, the prosecution of NJS by the OWS for breaches of Pilots AWAs is commencing in The Federal Magistrates Court in Perth this Monday (15-10-07). I believe NJS has employed a QC for their defence.
